Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[bwgood77]

Bagley has a decent shot fundamentally I think he will improve quite a bit in that area.

I found your problem!

Seriously though, no more potential. We need actual talent, right now. I'm not saying we don't draft that talent, but we need someone who we don't need to wait on anymore. I keep saying it, but..

Wish in one hand and sh** in the other, see which one fills up faster. We need actual talent now. No more projects or hoping.

If we are drafting a player we are hoping they pan out because we truly have no idea until they get in the league and play, Booker wouldnt have went 13th if people thought he would be this good, Mitchell wouldn;t have been available for Utah and so on and so on, so what you said makes no sense unless we are going to trade our draft picks and try to obtain known quantities in the NBA somehow...

Yes, but in general, but the way the league is trending with spread offense and teams so efficient from 3, you can't afford to draft guys at 1-4 who can't shoot, unless you have a bunch of 3 pt shooters on the team already, and I'm talking 4 decent to good 3 pt shooters starting, or 3 great 3 pt shooters starting.

A team like ours who has among the worst (if the not the worst) 3 pt shooting and defense in the league shouldn't be drafting guys that can't do one of these things and in no way should be drafting someone who doesn't do either.

[RunDogGun]

Agree no more draft projects that shoot poor at the free throw line and have poor shooting percentages. All these big guys in this draft are frightening in that they are just big man projects who have dominated in high school and college because they are 7 ft+ can dunk, rebound, and sometimes block shots. Inflated shooting percentages on dunks means nothing in the NBA. Sounds like we would be replacing Tyson and Len with younger guys who don't fit in the NBA anymore.

We need a 7 footer like Markkanen who can space the floor and rebound. Draft pure shooters and we will be better off because in the end it's who can score from three and handle the ball to get layups.

Doesn’t Jackson Jr have a decent 3 pt percentage?

[BobbieL]

I found your problem!

Seriously though, no more potential. We need actual talent, right now. I'm not saying we don't draft that talent, but we need someone who we don't need to wait on anymore. I keep saying it, but..

Wish in one hand and sh** in the other, see which one fills up faster. We need actual talent now. No more projects or hoping.

I agree with him. It's time to get some people in here in the draft where we are not saying things like "I think they can improve their shooting in time". We already have like 4-5 guys like that, and it hasn't happened quickly for anyone, so I am not sure why people think it will with him.

Maybe Trae Young is the pick even if you bring back Payton and can't get Doncic or Ayton. The team needs guys that can score the ball and shoot.

Like when I mention Tyreke Evans with the MLE - its because he can score the ball. But to your point - need guys that can shoot, spread the floor out. Hell a guy like Bellinelli - he can shoot the ball. Would be cheap too - have to overpay but whatever if its one year 10m deal.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'd make a call to the wiz on otto porter this summer. He makes a lot of money but man he would be a good 3 next to booker and can slide down to the 4 at times. The wizards are going to run into luxury tax issues and if they don't move wall (a possibility) porter is the obvious guy for them to move and help that. I'd offer TJ and another minor asset.

[Sreister]

Bagley has a decent shot fundamentally I think he will improve quite a bit in that area.

I found your problem!

Seriously though, no more potential. We need actual talent, right now. I'm not saying we don't draft that talent, but we need someone who we don't need to wait on anymore. I keep saying it, but..

Wish in one hand and sh** in the other, see which one fills up faster. We need actual talent now. No more projects or hoping.

Way to articulate your side of things.

Is this where we're at? We prefer potential rather than actual talent? That was my main take away there, and people are laughing at the thought?

[WeekapaugGroove]

I agree with him. It's time to get some people in here in the draft where we are not saying things like "I think they can improve their shooting in time". We already have like 4-5 guys like that, and it hasn't happened quickly for anyone, so I am not sure why people think it will with him.

Maybe Trae Young is the pick even if you bring back Payton and can't get Doncic or Ayton. The team needs guys that can score the ball and shoot.

Like when I mention Tyreke Evans with the MLE - its because he can score the ball. But to your point - need guys that can shoot, spread the floor out. Hell a guy like Bellinelli - he can shoot the ball. Would be cheap too - have to overpay but whatever if its one year 10m deal.

I like Trae Young and I'm not saying I wouldn't draft him. But I think it's a very fair question to ask if a backcourt with him and Booker would ever be good enough defensively to be real contenders. Would you essentially be the new version of Portland?

It's odd to say since he does bring things this team needs but of all the top 7 guys Young's the one I kind of question the long term fit the most. I say this because other than Booker I really don't care how the draft prospects fit with our other young players because frankly none of those young guys have shown me enough that I wouldn't prioritize finding a fit for the new draft pick over them. So if they draft a non-shooter and he's simply a better player than Jackson or Warren or who ever then move those guys.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I agree with him. It's time to get some people in here in the draft where we are not saying things like "I think they can improve their shooting in time". We already have like 4-5 guys like that, and it hasn't happened quickly for anyone, so I am not sure why people think it will with him.

Maybe Trae Young is the pick even if you bring back Payton and can't get Doncic or Ayton. The team needs guys that can score the ball and shoot.

Like when I mention Tyreke Evans with the MLE - its because he can score the ball. But to your point - need guys that can shoot, spread the floor out. Hell a guy like Bellinelli - he can shoot the ball. Would be cheap too - have to overpay but whatever if its one year 10m deal.

I'd be more interested in looking at guys like McCaw or Hezonja. Don't think Hezonja would sign here even if we offered the most money, though. Sure he'd prefer a chance to earn a starting gig somewhere.

[bigfoot]

Agree no more draft projects that shoot poor at the free throw line and have poor shooting percentages. All these big guys in this draft are frightening in that they are just big man projects who have dominated in high school and college because they are 7 ft+ can dunk, rebound, and sometimes block shots. Inflated shooting percentages on dunks means nothing in the NBA. Sounds like we would be replacing Tyson and Len with younger guys who don't fit in the NBA anymore.

We need a 7 footer like Markkanen who can space the floor and rebound. Draft pure shooters and we will be better off because in the end it's who can score from three and handle the ball to get layups.

Doesn’t Jackson Jr have a decent 3 pt percentage?

Sure and a pretty good free throw percentage too. Right now its Doncic, Porter Jr, Jackson Jr, Ayton, Young in that order. Bamba and Bagley are too risky. Young scares me because he could be another Jimmer or Adam Morrison.

[BobbieL]

I agree with him. It's time to get some people in here in the draft where we are not saying things like "I think they can improve their shooting in time". We already have like 4-5 guys like that, and it hasn't happened quickly for anyone, so I am not sure why people think it will with him.

Maybe Trae Young is the pick even if you bring back Payton and can't get Doncic or Ayton. The team needs guys that can score the ball and shoot.

Like when I mention Tyreke Evans with the MLE - its because he can score the ball. But to your point - need guys that can shoot, spread the floor out. Hell a guy like Bellinelli - he can shoot the ball. Would be cheap too - have to overpay but whatever if its one year 10m deal.

I'd be more interested in looking at guys like McCaw or Hezonja. Don't think Hezonja would sign here even if we offered the most money, though. Sure he'd prefer a chance to earn a starting gig somewhere.

I mentioned McCaw but he is more a defensive wing. Not that I don't mind that. If you offer Hezonja enough money - especially on a Reddick deal - might work.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I agree with him. It's time to get some people in here in the draft where we are not saying things like "I think they can improve their shooting in time". We already have like 4-5 guys like that, and it hasn't happened quickly for anyone, so I am not sure why people think it will with him.

Maybe Trae Young is the pick even if you bring back Payton and can't get Doncic or Ayton. The team needs guys that can score the ball and shoot.

Like when I mention Tyreke Evans with the MLE - its because he can score the ball. But to your point - need guys that can shoot, spread the floor out. Hell a guy like Bellinelli - he can shoot the ball. Would be cheap too - have to overpay but whatever if its one year 10m deal.

I'd be more interested in looking at guys like McCaw or Hezonja. Don't think Hezonja would sign here even if we offered the most money, though. Sure he'd prefer a chance to earn a starting gig somewhere.

I like McCaw. They need to be really careful looking at these wings in FA. Grabbing a guy on a cheap contract is good but you can get yourself in a lot of trouble handing out 8 or 10M+ contracts to role players. They should avoid that.

[Waylay13]

What?


They signed Chandler Knight and almost signed Aldridge before Booker was a unveiled to be a cornerstone type player.

Were discussing something in retrospect. Suns have a bad cap for a bottom 2 team.

To an extent. I mean the 3 contracts I would consider to be bad are all off the books after next season. That isn't that bad.

You don’t consider Knight bad?

Knight at his very best is a high volume scorer who doesnt bring much else to the team. Even Bledsoe at his best would often freeze out his teammates for his own scoring. The problem with running these types of points is that you need to have the offence run through other players. The warriors dont run most of the offense through Curry as amazing as his is because he isnt looking to get his teammates involved. look at the assist totals for Green, Durant, and even Thompson and you see that they are moving the ball around and getting everyone good shoots.

[bwgood77]

I agree with him. It's time to get some people in here in the draft where we are not saying things like "I think they can improve their shooting in time". We already have like 4-5 guys like that, and it hasn't happened quickly for anyone, so I am not sure why people think it will with him.

Maybe Trae Young is the pick even if you bring back Payton and can't get Doncic or Ayton. The team needs guys that can score the ball and shoot.

Like when I mention Tyreke Evans with the MLE - its because he can score the ball. But to your point - need guys that can shoot, spread the floor out. Hell a guy like Bellinelli - he can shoot the ball. Would be cheap too - have to overpay but whatever if its one year 10m deal.

I like Trae Young and I'm not saying I wouldn't draft him. But I think it's a very fair question to ask if a backcourt with him and Booker would ever be good enough defensively to be real contenders. Would you essentially be the new version of Portland?

It's odd to say since he does bring things this team needs but of all the top 7 guys Young's the one I kind of question the long term fit the most. I say this because other than Booker I really don't care how the draft prospects fit with our other young players because frankly none of those young guys have shown me enough that I wouldn't prioritize finding a fit for the new draft pick over them. So if they draft a non-shooter and he's simply a better player than Jackson or Warren or who ever then move those guys.

Given that he is an elite shooter with elite floor vision, I can live with the potential defensive problem. Backcourt defense isn't nearly as important as with the wings and bigs. It's important, but if you have a good coach, they can become passable team defenders, like Irving has.

We need elite shooters and we need a long term starting PG. I like what Payton has done but I'm not sure I want to commit to him as a long term starter after another rebuilding team decided he was not worth building around...now I know it's the team that gave on on Dipo, Harris, etc, but this is a brand new FO with a very good reputation.

We need shooting first and foremost and floor spreaders, but he also can make the game easier for others by getting them easier looks and having gravity to pull defenders away from others. It would be nice if we could somehow get Young and JJJ because I think you could live with that backcourt if you had Jackson, Bender and JJJ in the frontcourt and TJ as sixth man.

[MathiasPW]

It's not so much who shoots how well for each position, but how many non-shooter you can have on PnR based offense (where you need as few people clogging the paint as possoble).

Bender at C is working because he spreads the floor leaving room for Warren/Jackson to cut, while he can hold the paint defensively. Bender at PF has less impact cause he doesn't drag the opponents main rim protector away.

So if we are not gonna have decent shooters at the wing positions, we better have them at the playmaking and paint

[bwgood77]

I agree with him. It's time to get some people in here in the draft where we are not saying things like "I think they can improve their shooting in time". We already have like 4-5 guys like that, and it hasn't happened quickly for anyone, so I am not sure why people think it will with him.

Maybe Trae Young is the pick even if you bring back Payton and can't get Doncic or Ayton. The team needs guys that can score the ball and shoot.

Like when I mention Tyreke Evans with the MLE - its because he can score the ball. But to your point - need guys that can shoot, spread the floor out. Hell a guy like Bellinelli - he can shoot the ball. Would be cheap too - have to overpay but whatever if its one year 10m deal.

I'd be more interested in looking at guys like McCaw or Hezonja. Don't think Hezonja would sign here even if we offered the most money, though. Sure he'd prefer a chance to earn a starting gig somewhere.

Are there many places he would have a better chances of earning a starting gig?

[BobbieL]

Maybe Trae Young is the pick even if you bring back Payton and can't get Doncic or Ayton. The team needs guys that can score the ball and shoot.

Like when I mention Tyreke Evans with the MLE - its because he can score the ball. But to your point - need guys that can shoot, spread the floor out. Hell a guy like Bellinelli - he can shoot the ball. Would be cheap too - have to overpay but whatever if its one year 10m deal.

I'd be more interested in looking at guys like McCaw or Hezonja. Don't think Hezonja would sign here even if we offered the most money, though. Sure he'd prefer a chance to earn a starting gig somewhere.

I like McCaw. They need to be really careful looking at these wings in FA. Grabbing a guy on a cheap contract is good but you can get yourself in a lot of trouble handing out 8 or 10M+ contracts to role players. They should avoid that.

I will say this - if Payton doesn't work out - McCaw would be pretty high on my list as I think with the Warriors cap problems - the Suns could be aggressive with an offer quickly to get him.

But two games - very small sample - I like Payton so far. Have to see how he does next to Booker though

As for Young - if he can shoot it - I will take the defense,

[bwgood77]

Maybe Trae Young is the pick even if you bring back Payton and can't get Doncic or Ayton. The team needs guys that can score the ball and shoot.

Like when I mention Tyreke Evans with the MLE - its because he can score the ball. But to your point - need guys that can shoot, spread the floor out. Hell a guy like Bellinelli - he can shoot the ball. Would be cheap too - have to overpay but whatever if its one year 10m deal.

I'd be more interested in looking at guys like McCaw or Hezonja. Don't think Hezonja would sign here even if we offered the most money, though. Sure he'd prefer a chance to earn a starting gig somewhere.

I mentioned McCaw but he is more a defensive wing. Not that I don't mind that. If you offer Hezonja enough money - especially on a Reddick deal - might work.

Hezonja will not get paid anything near Redick money. He will be lucky to get the MLE. He may be lucky to get half the MLE.

[BobbieL]

Maybe Trae Young is the pick even if you bring back Payton and can't get Doncic or Ayton. The team needs guys that can score the ball and shoot.

Like when I mention Tyreke Evans with the MLE - its because he can score the ball. But to your point - need guys that can shoot, spread the floor out. Hell a guy like Bellinelli - he can shoot the ball. Would be cheap too - have to overpay but whatever if its one year 10m deal.

I'd be more interested in looking at guys like McCaw or Hezonja. Don't think Hezonja would sign here even if we offered the most money, though. Sure he'd prefer a chance to earn a starting gig somewhere.

Are there many places he would have a better chances of earning a starting gig?

one year, 10m -- -come off the bench and become the "Macedonian Microwave Mario" - sign and trade - give the Magic a second rounder and Ulis so they get something for their efforts

(I know he is Croatian but Macedonia worked better with the nickname)

[BobbieL]

I'd be more interested in looking at guys like McCaw or Hezonja. Don't think Hezonja would sign here even if we offered the most money, though. Sure he'd prefer a chance to earn a starting gig somewhere.

I mentioned McCaw but he is more a defensive wing. Not that I don't mind that. If you offer Hezonja enough money - especially on a Reddick deal - might work.

Hezonja will not get paid anything near Redick money. He will be lucky to get the MLE. He may be lucky to get half the MLE.

I should have been clearer - one year deal for high dollars type deal - not Reddick dollars

meaning overpay for one year to keep cap flexibility for future years

[bwgood77]

I'd be more interested in looking at guys like McCaw or Hezonja. Don't think Hezonja would sign here even if we offered the most money, though. Sure he'd prefer a chance to earn a starting gig somewhere.

Are there many places he would have a better chances of earning a starting gig?

one year, 10m -- -come off the bench and become the "Macedonian Microwave Mario" - sign and trade - give the Magic a second rounder and Ulis so they get something for their efforts

(I know he is Croatian but Macedonia worked better with the nickname)

Isn't he going to be an UFA?

[WeekapaugGroove]

Maybe Trae Young is the pick even if you bring back Payton and can't get Doncic or Ayton. The team needs guys that can score the ball and shoot.

Like when I mention Tyreke Evans with the MLE - its because he can score the ball. But to your point - need guys that can shoot, spread the floor out. Hell a guy like Bellinelli - he can shoot the ball. Would be cheap too - have to overpay but whatever if its one year 10m deal.

I like Trae Young and I'm not saying I wouldn't draft him. But I think it's a very fair question to ask if a backcourt with him and Booker would ever be good enough defensively to be real contenders. Would you essentially be the new version of Portland?

It's odd to say since he does bring things this team needs but of all the top 7 guys Young's the one I kind of question the long term fit the most. I say this because other than Booker I really don't care how the draft prospects fit with our other young players because frankly none of those young guys have shown me enough that I wouldn't prioritize finding a fit for the new draft pick over them. So if they draft a non-shooter and he's simply a better player than Jackson or Warren or who ever then move those guys.

Given that he is an elite shooter with elite floor vision, I can live with the potential defensive problem. Backcourt defense isn't nearly as important as with the wings and bigs. It's important, but if you have a good coach, they can become passable team defenders, like Irving has.

We need elite shooters and we need a long term starting PG. I like what Payton has done but I'm not sure I want to commit to him as a long term starter after another rebuilding team decided he was not worth building around...now I know it's the team that gave on on Dipo, Harris, etc, but this is a brand new FO with a very good reputation.

We need shooting first and foremost and floor spreaders, but he also can make the game easier for others by getting them easier looks and having gravity to pull defenders away from others. It would be nice if we could somehow get Young and JJJ because I think you could live with that backcourt if you had Jackson, Bender and JJJ in the frontcourt and TJ as sixth man.

Yeah I get where you're coming from and as I said I'm not opposed to drafting Young. Hell if he's awesome and they improve if for some reason 3-4 years from now they decide it can't work out with him and Booker then you would have two really good trade assets and a team that's fun and winning. I think we're all in agreement the suns simply need better players and if Young is that by all means take him.

As far as Orlando having a good GM we'll have to agree to disagree there. I have to give him credit for falling into Giannis but as a bucks fan I hated like 90% of his moves.

For as much angst there is about his shooting Payton is shooting basically the same % from 3 as Booker this year and only Troy Daniels is better on the Suns team. I completely get that the volume (or lack there of) with Payton makes that a skewed stat but I don't think it's completely out of the question that he might be able to up that volume and stay around the same %. At that point he's a completely passable shooter for an NBA PG. I have a hell of a lot more faith that Payton could make that mini leap over say Warren suddenly being able to stretch the floor.