Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[Damkac]

I'd make a call to the wiz on otto porter this summer. He makes a lot of money but man he would be a good 3 next to booker and can slide down to the 4 at times. The wizards are going to run into luxury tax issues and if they don't move wall (a possibility) porter is the obvious guy for them to move and help that. I'd offer TJ and another minor asset.

19pts 5rbs 1.4ast for 11-12 milions/year + minor asset
for
14pts 6rbs 2ast for 24-28 milions/year

Seriously?

(Yes I know Otto can shoot and Warren can't. Half of our team can't shoot but it's only Warren who everyone wants to trade. And he is by far the best of all our non-shooters.)

[sunsbum]

I used to dream about a trae and book backcourt. Now I do not.

[BobbieL]

Are there many places he would have a better chances of earning a starting gig?

one year, 10m -- -come off the bench and become the "Macedonian Microwave Mario" - sign and trade - give the Magic a second rounder and Ulis so they get something for their efforts

(I know he is Croatian but Macedonia worked better with the nickname)

Isn't he going to be an UFA?

Is he RFA or UFA? I forgot, RFA has to be three year offer I think - good point

[thamadkant]

Jackson will improve his 3pt shot. He wants to make them so he will work on it.

Warren? He doesn't like shooting them at all. He will always have that mid range or slash mentality.

[Saberestar]

one year, 10m -- -come off the bench and become the "Macedonian Microwave Mario" - sign and trade - give the Magic a second rounder and Ulis so they get something for their efforts

(I know he is Croatian but Macedonia worked better with the nickname)

Isn't he going to be an UFA?

Is he RFA or UFA? I forgot, RFA has to be three year offer I think - good point

He will be an UFA.

Too many players to develop, I would not sign him.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'd make a call to the wiz on otto porter this summer. He makes a lot of money but man he would be a good 3 next to booker and can slide down to the 4 at times. The wizards are going to run into luxury tax issues and if they don't move wall (a possibility) porter is the obvious guy for them to move and help that. I'd offer TJ and another minor asset.

19pts 5rbs 1.4ast for 11-12 milions/year + minor asset
for
14pts 6rbs 2ast for 24-28 milions/year

Seriously?

(Yes I know Otto can shoot and Warren can't. Half of our team can't shoot but it's only Warren who everyone wants to trade. And he is by far the best of all our non-shooters.)

Otto is a much better than defender. Warren has a 114 DRtg and -1.7 DBPM Otto has a 106 DRtg and 1.4 DBPM. Not that advanced defensive stats are the bible but this is a significant difference. Otto also grades out slightly better offensively by advanced stats too.

Is he over paid? Yes; but if he wasn't they would never trade a guy like him.

[bwgood77]

I like Trae Young and I'm not saying I wouldn't draft him. But I think it's a very fair question to ask if a backcourt with him and Booker would ever be good enough defensively to be real contenders. Would you essentially be the new version of Portland?

It's odd to say since he does bring things this team needs but of all the top 7 guys Young's the one I kind of question the long term fit the most. I say this because other than Booker I really don't care how the draft prospects fit with our other young players because frankly none of those young guys have shown me enough that I wouldn't prioritize finding a fit for the new draft pick over them. So if they draft a non-shooter and he's simply a better player than Jackson or Warren or who ever then move those guys.

Given that he is an elite shooter with elite floor vision, I can live with the potential defensive problem. Backcourt defense isn't nearly as important as with the wings and bigs. It's important, but if you have a good coach, they can become passable team defenders, like Irving has.

We need elite shooters and we need a long term starting PG. I like what Payton has done but I'm not sure I want to commit to him as a long term starter after another rebuilding team decided he was not worth building around...now I know it's the team that gave on on Dipo, Harris, etc, but this is a brand new FO with a very good reputation.

We need shooting first and foremost and floor spreaders, but he also can make the game easier for others by getting them easier looks and having gravity to pull defenders away from others. It would be nice if we could somehow get Young and JJJ because I think you could live with that backcourt if you had Jackson, Bender and JJJ in the frontcourt and TJ as sixth man.

Yeah I get where you're coming from and as I said I'm not opposed to drafting Young. Hell if he's awesome and they improve if for some reason 3-4 years from now they decide it can't work out with him and Booker then you would have two really good trade assets and a team that's fun and winning. I think we're all in agreement the suns simply need better players and if Young is that by all means take him.

As far as Orlando having a good GM we'll have to agree to disagree there. I have to give him credit for falling into Giannis but as a bucks fan I hated like 90% of his moves.

For as much angst there is about his shooting Payton is shooting basically the same % from 3 as Booker this year and only Troy Daniels is better on the Suns team. I completely get that the volume (or lack there of) with Payton makes that a skewed stat but I don't think it's completely out of the question that he might be able to up that volume and stay around the same %. At that point he's a completely passable shooter for an NBA PG. I have a hell of a lot more faith that Payton could make that mini leap over say Warren suddenly being able to stretch the floor.

Yeah, if Payton can hit that on high volume (or at least get respect from defenders) and be engaged defensively I'd love to keep him. With the poor FT shooting it's tough, but it has been pointed out that his 3pt shooting AND FT shooting have both improved every year, so he may continue to get better.

Hopefully that happens, we get the first pick and take Doncic, and can get Wendell Carter with the Heat pick. Then we have a great guard rotation and a C.

[BobbieL]

Isn't he going to be an UFA?

Is he RFA or UFA? I forgot, RFA has to be three year offer I think - good point

He will be an UFA.

Too many players to develop, I would not sign him.

If he can shoot the ball - I will take him. Tyreke Evans cheap enough, will take him.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I used to dream about a trae and book backcourt. Now I do not.

I agree. Elfrid having success here is best case scenario - a big guard who can get to the basket, pass first, and challenge shots on the perimeter. No need to jump to conclusions, but Elfrid's skill set fits perfectly next to Book.

[sunsbum]

I used to dream about a trae and book backcourt. Now I do not.

I agree. Elfrid having success here is best case scenario - a big guard who can get to the basket, pass first, and challenge shots on the perimeter. No need to jump to conclusions, but Elfrid's skill set fits perfectly next to Book.

Honestly I think trae is going to get absolutely **** on in the NBA defensively. I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the worst defensive players in the entire NBA during his career.

I also don't want a PG that is going to demand the ball more than Booker.
Payton is going to be a great fit next to Devin and he knows it...did you seem him get all flirty in the interview when books name came up?

[Saberestar]

I'd make a call to the wiz on otto porter this summer. He makes a lot of money but man he would be a good 3 next to booker and can slide down to the 4 at times. The wizards are going to run into luxury tax issues and if they don't move wall (a possibility) porter is the obvious guy for them to move and help that. I'd offer TJ and another minor asset.

19pts 5rbs 1.4ast for 11-12 milions/year + minor asset
for
14pts 6rbs 2ast for 24-28 milions/year

Seriously?

(Yes I know Otto can shoot and Warren can't. Half of our team can't shoot but it's only Warren who everyone wants to trade. And he is by far the best of all our non-shooters.)

Otto is a much better than defender. Warren has a 114 DRtg and -1.7 DBPM Otto has a 106 DRtg and 1.4 DBPM. Not that advanced defensive stats are the bible but this is a significant difference. Otto also grades out slightly better offensively by advanced stats too.

Is he over paid? Yes; but if he wasn't they would never trade a guy like him.

I would not make that trade, I think Otto is really overrated. Decent player, but I prefer Warren and Jackson over him.

[Saberestar]

Is he RFA or UFA? I forgot, RFA has to be three year offer I think - good point

He will be an UFA.

Too many players to develop, I would not sign him.

If he can shoot the ball - I will take him. Tyreke Evans cheap enough, will take him.

Troy Daniels can shoot the ball...and what?

Shooting is not everything. Daniels is an amazing shooter but he can not stay on the court because he is bad at everything else. And when I say bad I mean terrible.

Teletovic was/is a great shooter but he can not play more than 15 mpg if you are serious about winning games.

Hezonja is a good shooter, but he is worse at everything else than Jackson.

We need to develop Jackson yet, I do not want to add another really young player at his position (plus Booker and Warren) when we really want to compete for the playoffs next season.

[bwgood77]

Is he RFA or UFA? I forgot, RFA has to be three year offer I think - good point

He will be an UFA.

Too many players to develop, I would not sign him.

If he can shoot the ball - I will take him. Tyreke Evans cheap enough, will take him.

It is strange they gave up on a 22 year old fairly raw guy with a 57.2% TS% this year. Yeah, he's a guy I'd take a flier on. He would likely be cheap too.

He's not really a good defender, but better from an advanced stats perspective than any of our wings per DRPM (espn), DRTG (bref) and DBPM.

And a better TS% than any of them.. http://bkref.com/tiny/4uA4K

Of course we'd be taking another guy that a rebuilding team is giving up on, but it could be another mistake. We obviously don't have much for roster spots though, particularly when you consider the draft.

[darealjuice]

I really like what I've seen from Elf so far, especially without Booker, but I'm not ready to say Trae shouldn't be on the board for the Suns. In the end I'm more worried about what wins games than what fits next to Booker, and in this league having a non-shooter at point guard is not good regardless of them being 5'9" or 6'3". In the fast-paced high scoring league that exists today, a guy like Trae that can create his own shot, create shots for others, and is shooting 40% (58-145 this year) on NBA 3s while in college is definitely still appealing, especially when Booker is the only person that can do that stuff for us right now.

I'm of the opinion that individual point guard defense is overrated in the NBA anyways. Obviously you don't want a turnstyle, but you can count the number of guards that are going to single handedly trouble the likes of Kyrie, Steph, Harden, CP3, Dame, and so on with a single hand, and almost none of them are bringing anything else elite to the table. It's all about playing smart team defense in the NBA, especially with how huge the pick and roll is.

[bigfoot]

He will be an UFA.

Too many players to develop, I would not sign him.

If he can shoot the ball - I will take him. Tyreke Evans cheap enough, will take him.

It is strange they gave up on a 22 year old fairly raw guy with a 57.2% TS% this year. Yeah, he's a guy I'd take a flier on. He would likely be cheap too.

He's not really a good defender, but better from an advanced stats perspective than any of our wings per DRPM (espn), DRTG (bref) and DBPM.

And a better TS% than any of them.. http://bkref.com/tiny/4uA4K

Of course we'd be taking another guy that a rebuilding team is giving up on, but it could be another mistake. We obviously don't have much for roster spots though, particularly when you consider the draft.

I'll tell you what is weird. Orlando not picking up Mario's option this summer and then giving him decent playing time now. That's crazy. I guess the only good thing for them is they are in the drivers seat holding his bird rights and can easily offer him a bigger payday than most other teams could afford this summer.

[SOUL]

I really like what I've seen from Elf so far, especially without Booker, but I'm not ready to say Trae shouldn't be on the board for the Suns. In the end I'm more worried about what wins games than what fits next to Booker, and in this league having a non-shooter at point guard is not good regardless of them being 5'9" or 6'3". In the fast-paced high scoring league that exists today, a guy like Trae that can create his own shot, create shots for others, and is shooting 40% (58-145 this year) on NBA 3s while in college is definitely still appealing, especially when Booker is the only person that can do that stuff for us right now.

I'm of the opinion that individual point guard defense is overrated in the NBA anyways. Obviously you don't want a turnstyle, but you can count the number of guards that are going to single handedly trouble the likes of Kyrie, Steph, Harden, CP3, Dame, and so on with a single hand, and almost none of them are bringing anything else elite to the table. It's all about playing smart team defense in the NBA, especially with how huge the pick and roll is.

Personally I'd just go BPA for you guys. Elfrid is my favorite player but if you couldn't pass up a PG in the draft ike Trae or anybody else, go for it. You never know how players will fit during the next season or in the future.

[bwgood77]

If he can shoot the ball - I will take him. Tyreke Evans cheap enough, will take him.

It is strange they gave up on a 22 year old fairly raw guy with a 57.2% TS% this year. Yeah, he's a guy I'd take a flier on. He would likely be cheap too.

He's not really a good defender, but better from an advanced stats perspective than any of our wings per DRPM (espn), DRTG (bref) and DBPM.

And a better TS% than any of them.. http://bkref.com/tiny/4uA4K

Of course we'd be taking another guy that a rebuilding team is giving up on, but it could be another mistake. We obviously don't have much for roster spots though, particularly when you consider the draft.

I'll tell you what is weird. Orlando not picking up Mario's option this summer and then giving him decent playing time now. That's crazy. I guess the only good thing for them is they are in the drivers seat holding his bird rights and can easily offer him a bigger payday than most other teams could afford this summer.

Yeah, but they also could have had him on a rookie contract year for another year. Unless they thought the market was SO tight that right now they could offer him a lesser long term contract this summer than he would have gotten next summer (even when you consider what that rookie year would have cost), then it barely makes sense. Still doesn't seem reasonable though.

[darealjuice]

I really like what I've seen from Elf so far, especially without Booker, but I'm not ready to say Trae shouldn't be on the board for the Suns. In the end I'm more worried about what wins games than what fits next to Booker, and in this league having a non-shooter at point guard is not good regardless of them being 5'9" or 6'3". In the fast-paced high scoring league that exists today, a guy like Trae that can create his own shot, create shots for others, and is shooting 40% (58-145 this year) on NBA 3s while in college is definitely still appealing, especially when Booker is the only person that can do that stuff for us right now.

I'm of the opinion that individual point guard defense is overrated in the NBA anyways. Obviously you don't want a turnstyle, but you can count the number of guards that are going to single handedly trouble the likes of Kyrie, Steph, Harden, CP3, Dame, and so on with a single hand, and almost none of them are bringing anything else elite to the table. It's all about playing smart team defense in the NBA, especially with how huge the pick and roll is.

Personally I'd just go BPA for you guys. Elfrid is my favorite player but if you couldn't pass up a PG in the draft ike Trae or anybody else, go for it. You never know how players will fit during the next season or in the future.

Yeah I agree. Not saying I think Trae will be BPA when we pick, as I've got a few guys above him, but we shouldn't pass on a player with his potential impact just because we have Elf.

[bigfoot]

It is strange they gave up on a 22 year old fairly raw guy with a 57.2% TS% this year. Yeah, he's a guy I'd take a flier on. He would likely be cheap too.

He's not really a good defender, but better from an advanced stats perspective than any of our wings per DRPM (espn), DRTG (bref) and DBPM.

And a better TS% than any of them.. http://bkref.com/tiny/4uA4K

Of course we'd be taking another guy that a rebuilding team is giving up on, but it could be another mistake. We obviously don't have much for roster spots though, particularly when you consider the draft.

I'll tell you what is weird. Orlando not picking up Mario's option this summer and then giving him decent playing time now. That's crazy. I guess the only good thing for them is they are in the drivers seat holding his bird rights and can easily offer him a bigger payday than most other teams could afford this summer.

Yeah, but they also could have had him on a rookie contract year for another year. Unless they thought the market was SO tight that right now they could offer him a lesser long term contract this summer than he would have gotten next summer (even when you consider what that rookie year would have cost), then it barely makes sense. Still doesn't seem reasonable though.

It's weird ... would be like the Suns not picking up Chriss' rookie option for his fourth year and then giving him decent minutes next season. I don't understand.

[bwgood77]

I really like what I've seen from Elf so far, especially without Booker, but I'm not ready to say Trae shouldn't be on the board for the Suns. In the end I'm more worried about what wins games than what fits next to Booker, and in this league having a non-shooter at point guard is not good regardless of them being 5'9" or 6'3". In the fast-paced high scoring league that exists today, a guy like Trae that can create his own shot, create shots for others, and is shooting 40% (58-145 this year) on NBA 3s while in college is definitely still appealing, especially when Booker is the only person that can do that stuff for us right now.

I'm of the opinion that individual point guard defense is overrated in the NBA anyways. Obviously you don't want a turnstyle, but you can count the number of guards that are going to single handedly trouble the likes of Kyrie, Steph, Harden, CP3, Dame, and so on with a single hand, and almost none of them are bringing anything else elite to the table. It's all about playing smart team defense in the NBA, especially with how huge the pick and roll is.

Personally I'd just go BPA for you guys. Elfrid is my favorite player but if you couldn't pass up a PG in the draft ike Trae or anybody else, go for it. You never know how players will fit during the next season or in the future.

The problem with BPA is that it's very subjective. I agree, but we all have different lists as far as how we rank them. I guess that means everyone hopes the GM's big board matches their own. And BPA for today's NBA might be much different than in the past. Guys like Bagley and Ayton would probably have been clear cut top two guys 10-15 years ago, but with perimeter focus it suddenly makes guys like Trae, Doncic and JJJ much more appealing. And I wonder how Bamba would be viewed if Gobert didn't exist. Hasheem Thabeet had over a 7'6 wingspan too.