Barton vs. Evans

[skywalker33]

Since there was big talk about the possibility of Denver acquiring Tyreke Evans at the deadline, here's a scenario I'd like to get opinions on.

Lou Williams' new contract has established a bar for FA2B Barton, Bradley and Evans. Given the way the market is shaping up, there doesn't seem to be a lot of teams with available money, even for the Nuggets (unless as I believe will happen, Chandler opts out). So I was thinking if you had a chance to sign one or the other, which would you choose and how much would you pay him ??

Barton is a year younger, but Tyreke is having a better scoring year and is more versatile, playing PG, SG and SF more efficiently, at least it seems so to me. However, we KNOW what Barton is and he knows our system (or what Malone calls a system). We already know he isn't a great defender but has been able to rise to the occasion, he's been in the 6MOY race since he's been here. Being part of the rise of this organization has to count, but by the same token he has already turned down and extension saying he wants to test the free agent market, no loyalty there.

I can see both in the 3-4 year range $25/35M a year, which do you take ?

I'd go with Tyreke myself.

[TunaFish]

There is another scenario. They let Barton walk and don't go after any free agent so as to have the maximum salary available.

I think Barton is gone for a big salary somewhere and I think Chandler may opt out looking for the same. Denver will have issues with Gary Harris' contract extension while trying to save some salary room for a Jokic extension.

And I have no idea if Hernangomez can fill the small forward slot but maybe they think he can. I am having a hard time seeing the Nuggets' adding salary when they are reaching that time when key players need to be paid. It is fuzzy how they intend to add a quality small forward.

[NuggetsWY]

Tyreke Evans is easily my choice. His skill set seems like a nice fit for the Nuggets. He's a jack-of-all-trades and fairly decent on both ends of the court. He won't get as many shots in Denver, but he's shown a willingness to adjust to that over the years. The only problem is, I'm not certain Denver will be able to sign him simply because it seems likely other teams will be interested. On the other hand, we did sign Millsap, so maybe ...

[Riko]

Neither.
If Chandler opt out - I hope so - Give a one year 5-10m$ contract to a veteran guard with decent ball-handling (Belinelli?) and use the rest of the cap (another 5-10m) to sign a veteran SF with decent 3p% and defense (Mbah a Moute?) to another one year deal.
If Chandler opt in - well, we are screw.

In short do not sign multiyears contract this summer besides Jokic's max contract.

[The Rebel]

I am fine with Beasley taking over the backup SG role, bring back Craig as the SF, draft a SF, resign Harris for 1 more year, and resign Jokic. In other words the Nuggets are going to have to resign Barton or go without as there is no cap room to sign Evans and I am fine with that.

[Alatan]

If we had the cap space, Evans no question. But Chandler would be a fool to opt out since the money is very tight this year and he sucked hard. I think that we could get a very team friendly deal with Barton.

[MidMountain]

If Chandler opts out and we sign Jokic to a max contract, we should be just under the tax. In that case I imagine we'll let Barton walk, maybe re-sign D. Harris to a vet. min., and use Faried + 2018 1st + maybe Juancho in a trade to upgrade SF. If Chandler opts in, we'll need to use our first to dump Faried for salary savings just to stay under the luxury tax. If Chandler opts out and we can dump Faried for nothing, we might have the space for a FA. Maybe we can do Faried + 1st for S&T Tyreke.

[NuggetsWY]

If Chandler opts out and we sign Jokic to a max contract, we should be just under the tax. In that case I imagine we'll let Barton walk, maybe re-sign D. Harris to a vet. min., and use Faried + 2018 1st + maybe Juancho in a trade to upgrade SF. If Chandler opts in, we'll need to use our first to dump Faried for salary savings just to stay under the luxury tax. If Chandler opts out and we can dump Faried for nothing, we might have the space for a FA. Maybe we can do Faried + 1st for S&T Tyreke.

We are going to trade Faried? Did you copy that from a post from last summer? Or was it from last year's trade deadline? Or was it from the 2016 summer trade season or 2016 trade deadline? Or maybe 2015? If Wojnarowski announced the Nuggets traded Faried, I'd want confirmation.

[MidMountain]

If Chandler opts out and we sign Jokic to a max contract, we should be just under the tax. In that case I imagine we'll let Barton walk, maybe re-sign D. Harris to a vet. min., and use Faried + 2018 1st + maybe Juancho in a trade to upgrade SF. If Chandler opts in, we'll need to use our first to dump Faried for salary savings just to stay under the luxury tax. If Chandler opts out and we can dump Faried for nothing, we might have the space for a FA. Maybe we can do Faried + 1st for S&T Tyreke.

We are going to trade Faried? Did you copy that from a post from last summer? Or was it from last year's trade deadline? Or was it from the 2016 summer trade season or 2016 trade deadline? Or maybe 2015? If Wojnarowski announced the Nuggets traded Faried, I'd want confirmation.

We've wanted to trade Faried for years, but never had the motivation or need to pay extra just to dump his salary. An impending luxury tax payment certainly gives us that.

[skywalker33]

Seems a lot of you are projecting just letting Barton walk, I can see that. But are you expecting Beasley to pick up the scoring load that Barton walking leaves ?? Just a shame we didn't trade him for SOMETHING, but that does seem to the (STUPID) MO of our front office.

[NuggetsWY]

Seems a lot of you are projecting just letting Barton walk, I can see that. But are you expecting Beasley to pick up the scoring load that Barton walking leaves ?? Just a shame we didn't trade him for SOMETHING, but that does seem to the (STUPID) MO of our front office.

Well, we were just talking about Lyles in another thread.

As a slight detour, I was looking at one of the "Draft Projection" type boards this morning and they said something like; "We loosely consider teams' drafting tendencies" - I just laughed to myself and wondered what the Nuggets' "Drafting tendencies" were? "Draft & Trade"

Under Tim Connelly

Draft Gobert - trade same day
Draft McDermott - trade same day
Draft - Mudiay - trade 2.5 years later
Draft Murray & Hernangomez
Draft Beasley
Draft Mitchell - trade same day

[The Rebel]

Seems a lot of you are projecting just letting Barton walk, I can see that. But are you expecting Beasley to pick up the scoring load that Barton walking leaves ?? Just a shame we didn't trade him for SOMETHING, but that does seem to the (STUPID) MO of our front office.

I don't see anyway they can pay him without adding luxury tax, and we all know this team is not a contender so it is doubtful they resign him.

Beasley, Juancho, and Lyles should be enough scoring off the bench.

I am sure the front office decided that a playoff series was worth more to them then they could get back for Barton.

[torotoe]

Seems a lot of you are projecting just letting Barton walk, I can see that. But are you expecting Beasley to pick up the scoring load that Barton walking leaves ?? Just a shame we didn't trade him for SOMETHING, but that does seem to the (STUPID) MO of our front office.

I don't see anyway they can pay him without adding luxury tax, and we all know this team is not a contender so it is doubtful they resign him.

Beasley, Juancho, and Lyles should be enough scoring off the bench.

I am sure the front office decided that a playoff series was worth more to them then they could get back for Barton.

Should be possible assuming two things. Barton signs to a contract somewhere around 4/40. And that Faried and DA are easier to dump when they have 30 games left, or in the off-season when there is cap space

[skywalker33]

Seems a lot of you are projecting just letting Barton walk, I can see that. But are you expecting Beasley to pick up the scoring load that Barton walking leaves ?? Just a shame we didn't trade him for SOMETHING, but that does seem to the (STUPID) MO of our front office.

I don't see anyway they can pay him without adding luxury tax, and we all know this team is not a contender so it is doubtful they resign him.

Beasley, Juancho, and Lyles should be enough scoring off the bench.

I am sure the front office decided that a playoff series was worth more to them then they could get back for Barton.

Yeah, I get that but by your logic wouldn't we have that exact same offensive firepower off the bench THIS year even if we traded Barton ???

But you are right about our front office plus the fact nobody was really trading away 1st rounders this year. Just sucks we're (most likely) going to let ANOTHER good asset walk away for nothing.

[NuggetsWY]

Seems a lot of you are projecting just letting Barton walk, I can see that. But are you expecting Beasley to pick up the scoring load that Barton walking leaves ?? Just a shame we didn't trade him for SOMETHING, but that does seem to the (STUPID) MO of our front office.

I don't see anyway they can pay him without adding luxury tax, and we all know this team is not a contender so it is doubtful they resign him.

Beasley, Juancho, and Lyles should be enough scoring off the bench.

I am sure the front office decided that a playoff series was worth more to them then they could get back for Barton.

Yeah, I get that but by your logic wouldn't we have that exact same offensive firepower off the bench THIS year even if we traded Barton ???

But you are right about our front office plus the fact nobody was really trading away 1st rounders this year. Just sucks we're (most likely) going to let ANOTHER good asset walk away for nothing.

Letting players walk seems like a waste. Sure, we'd like to have traded one or more for a 1st for the last year or two, but it just seems a waste to let them walk. It'd be better to trade two players for a 1st - working in other salaries as necessary - even taking back a bad salary.

[The Rebel]

Seems a lot of you are projecting just letting Barton walk, I can see that. But are you expecting Beasley to pick up the scoring load that Barton walking leaves ?? Just a shame we didn't trade him for SOMETHING, but that does seem to the (STUPID) MO of our front office.

I don't see anyway they can pay him without adding luxury tax, and we all know this team is not a contender so it is doubtful they resign him.

Beasley, Juancho, and Lyles should be enough scoring off the bench.

I am sure the front office decided that a playoff series was worth more to them then they could get back for Barton.

Should be possible assuming two things. Barton signs to a contract somewhere around 4/40. And that Faried and DA are easier to dump when they have 30 games left, or in the off-season when there is cap space

Currently the Nuggets are projected to have about $16 million under the tax, Jokic if they opt out and resign him will put the $8 million or so into the tax. Unlike previous years the new CBA counts every dollar paid and is no longer based on contracts held at the end of the year.

So realistically even if Chandler was to opt out and you move one of Faried or Arthur for half of their salaries coming back, you are not going to have the money to resign Barton and replace Chandler. That is the reason the Plumlee contract was so terrible.

There is also only a handful of teams with cap space next year. So it will not be easy to dump salary, especially if Malone is refusing to play them and driving their value into the dirt. This was the trade deadline to create future room, and our front office failed.

[The Rebel]

Seems a lot of you are projecting just letting Barton walk, I can see that. But are you expecting Beasley to pick up the scoring load that Barton walking leaves ?? Just a shame we didn't trade him for SOMETHING, but that does seem to the (STUPID) MO of our front office.

I don't see anyway they can pay him without adding luxury tax, and we all know this team is not a contender so it is doubtful they resign him.

Beasley, Juancho, and Lyles should be enough scoring off the bench.

I am sure the front office decided that a playoff series was worth more to them then they could get back for Barton.

Yeah, I get that but by your logic wouldn't we have that exact same offensive firepower off the bench THIS year even if we traded Barton ???

But you are right about our front office plus the fact nobody was really trading away 1st rounders this year. Just sucks we're (most likely) going to let ANOTHER good asset walk away for nothing.

Is our bench scoring an issue now? Remember Barton is not a particularly efficient scorer, and a healthy Juancho was, Beasley may be a downgrade next year, but he has always been a scorer and he is a better defender than Barton, Lyles will be another year older, Morris is a pass 1st guy but he can and does score a little, plumlee is decent enough in a Faried type role. Combined I can see the bench putting up a positive or better rating.

I think everybody is forgetting that we have $64 million tied up in PFs and C before Jokic's extension, which will move that to about $91 million, leaving about $38 million under the projected cap. Chandler and Gary Harris eat up $29 million, and $12.5 million going to the young guys. Add in the pick, resigning Morris and Craig, which will take up $3-4 million, and there just isn't any money. Even if Chandler opts out this team is likely in the tax next season. They are not signing any free agents, so either the young guys are ready, or they need to be used as well as the veterans to rebuild the entire depth chart behind the starters. That is where the finance are at.

[skywalker33]

I don't see anyway they can pay him without adding luxury tax, and we all know this team is not a contender so it is doubtful they resign him.

Beasley, Juancho, and Lyles should be enough scoring off the bench.

I am sure the front office decided that a playoff series was worth more to them then they could get back for Barton.

Yeah, I get that but by your logic wouldn't we have that exact same offensive firepower off the bench THIS year even if we traded Barton ???

But you are right about our front office plus the fact nobody was really trading away 1st rounders this year. Just sucks we're (most likely) going to let ANOTHER good asset walk away for nothing.

Is our bench scoring an issue now? Remember Barton is not a particularly efficient scorer, and a healthy Juancho was, Beasley may be a downgrade next year, but he has always been a scorer and he is a better defender than Barton, Lyles will be another year older, Morris is a pass 1st guy but he can and does score a little, plumlee is decent enough in a Faried type role. Combined I can see the bench putting up a positive or better rating.

Gotta agree but you're making my point, Barton could've been replaced. He does have the value to impact a game, he's been our leading scorer in quite a few games over his time here, how many teams would've given some future value (heck even a couple of 2nds) to add his firepower off the bench ?

I think everybody is forgetting that we have $64 million tied up in PFs and C before Jokic's extension, which will move that to about $91 million, leaving about $38 million under the projected cap. Chandler and Gary Harris eat up $29 million, and $12.5 million going to the young guys. Add in the pick, resigning Morris and Craig, which will take up $3-4 million, and there just isn't any money. Even if Chandler opts out this team is likely in the tax next season. They are not signing any free agents, so either the young guys are ready, or they need to be used as well as the veterans to rebuild the entire depth chart behind the starters. That is where the finance are at.

Well Arthur's and Faried's deals do come off after next year and Millsap's is a TO ( I kinda hope Millsap considers a 3/$60M ext with a TO at that point), all of which can help offset Jokic's MAX but we also have Lyles coming up the following year. I still believe Chandler opts out, even so I agree that KSE will have issues going into the luxury but they have done it in the past,

[Riko]

Are you sure Jokic has a player option? whatever I look seem that he has a team option for next year.
Granteed he will get his max contract but I think that starts in summer 2019, so this summer Denver will have no money if Chandler opts in and decent money if he opts out.

[psimanic1]

It should be team option, if we pick it up he becones UFA next year, if we dont he beocmes RFA this year