ImageImageImage

NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

Who would you take at 3 if Ayton/Doncic gone?

Bamba
9
13%
Bagley
11
16%
Jackson
9
13%
Porter
25
36%
Young
16
23%
 
Total votes: 70

WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 24,538
And1: 20,241
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1481 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:54 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:ESPN mock draft:

1. Doncic
2. Ayton
3. Bamba
4. Bagley
5. Jackson
6. Porter
7. Young

I'm surprised Trae Young is so low. I feel like it's so obvious he's on a bad team. Not to discredit the other player's talents, but I'm less worried about Young transitioning to the NBA than I am Bamba, Bagley, Jackson, and Porter.


I'm more surprised babma is 3rd. I'm ussually a sucker for these crazy long dudes but man is he raw. I really don't get how he goes over a guy like JJJ who isn't exactly small and seems to have better defensive insticts and definitely shoots better.

Theres a decent chance young falls. Some of the teams at the top have pgs and these guys are close enough I can see him slip as teams draft for need. He has to hope a team like Orlando picks around 3.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
User avatar
kennydorglas
Suns Forum Statistical Savant
Posts: 8,898
And1: 6,127
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Location: Bauru SP
Contact:
       

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1482 » by kennydorglas » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:23 pm

I can definitely see Young slipping like Curry did mainly because of over-analyzation.
They'll nitpick his defense and lack of size non stop.
"I got nothing to prove in this league. I’m a max player, and I’ll continue to be a max player."
Five foot Eighton

“No matter what you do or how you do it, as long as you have true passion you will succeed.”
Luis “WEEZY” Egurrola
Hesh
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,250
And1: 1,142
Joined: Sep 27, 2014
 

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1483 » by Hesh » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:29 pm

Apparently we're gonna pick Khyri Thomas with our 33rd pick :lol:

http://www.tankathon.com/players/khyri-thomas

He's no Lebryant Nash but it'll do.
User avatar
kennydorglas
Suns Forum Statistical Savant
Posts: 8,898
And1: 6,127
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Location: Bauru SP
Contact:
       

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1484 » by kennydorglas » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:35 pm

Hesh wrote:Apparently we're gonna pick Khyri Thomas with our 33rd pick :lol:

http://www.tankathon.com/players/khyri-thomas

He's no Lebryant Nash but it'll do.


Tankathon is really taking their game to a whole new level.
Great work
"I got nothing to prove in this league. I’m a max player, and I’ll continue to be a max player."
Five foot Eighton

“No matter what you do or how you do it, as long as you have true passion you will succeed.”
Luis “WEEZY” Egurrola
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,553
And1: 14,846
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1485 » by Qwigglez » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:19 pm

Definitely see Young as a Lonzo Ball type where he was super hyped and had the numbers to back him up. Lonzo shot well in college too, but at least he has size. Young looks smaller than Iverson and definitely doesn't have that kind of quickness either. I really don't want Young because, he looks as small as Ennis was when we drafted him. Young will set us back, I really hope the Magic take him and don't repeat history of taking the top big man (Shaq, Dwight).
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,143
And1: 61,002
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1486 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:15 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:ESPN mock draft:

1. Doncic
2. Ayton
3. Bamba
4. Bagley
5. Jackson
6. Porter
7. Young

I'm surprised Trae Young is so low. I feel like it's so obvious he's on a bad team. Not to discredit the other player's talents, but I'm less worried about Young transitioning to the NBA than I am Bamba, Bagley, Jackson, and Porter.


I'm more surprised babma is 3rd. I'm ussually a sucker for these crazy long dudes but man is he raw. I really don't get how he goes over a guy like JJJ who isn't exactly small and seems to have better defensive insticts and definitely shoots better.

Theres a decent chance young falls. Some of the teams at the top have pgs and these guys are close enough I can see him slip as teams draft for need. He has to hope a team like Orlando picks around 3.


They've always had Trae Young low. They didn't even have him in their top 100 at the beginning of the year. And yes, they are the highest on Bamba of anywhere I've seen.

To be honest, Givony and Schmitz are really a letdown after going to espn. It's like they finally made it so screw the video and top prospect write ups, lets just take trips overseas on espn to "watch potential top future euros".

I think the guys at The Stepien put by far the most detail and analysis in their work, so I trust their rankings the most.
Book1Nation
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,864
And1: 1,504
Joined: Aug 17, 2017
     

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1487 » by Book1Nation » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:40 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Nothing out of the ordinary but he played against length and size again.

Trae Young:
19 points, 6 assists, 1 rebound, 6 turnovers
4 of 16 FG (4-7 from two, 0-9 from three), 11 of 11 FT

Key flaws in the last 9 games:
29 of 94 from Three (30%)
58 Turnovers (6.4 Per Game)


We locked that ass down last night 8-)

But yes, he's the only player on that team and we threw 4-5 different guys at him to try and wear him down. It worked.
Damkac
Analyst
Posts: 3,143
And1: 3,062
Joined: Apr 18, 2011
Location: Poland

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1488 » by Damkac » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:21 pm

How the draft should looks like for every team to be happy:

SAC - Doncic
If someone could succeed in this dysfunctional team it is Luka. He should also find connection with Vlade and Bogdan.

ATL - Ayton
Ayton needs a good coach to reach his ceiling and Hawks can offer it.

DAL - Bagley
He could form exciting pick-and-roll duo with Dennis Smith, would have great coach and Dirk as mentor.

ORL - Young
Magic gets point guard they need.

PHO - Jackson
We needs defense and shooting. Also JJJ is very young but mature player with good bbiq, great motor and is son of former player. McD must love him.

MEM - Porter
Defensive oriented team gets great scorer and shooter. If healthy Marc-Mike-Michael trio could fight for playoffs.

CLE - Bamba
Cavs enters post-LeBron era drafting high potential freak. If they wants to stay competitive they may draft one of Bridges instead and Chicago would happily take Bamba then.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,143
And1: 61,002
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1489 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:31 pm

Damkac wrote:How the draft should looks like for every team to be happy:

SAC - Doncic
If someone could succeed in this dysfunctional team it is Luka. He should also find connection with Vlade and Bogdan.

ATL - Ayton
Ayton needs a good coach to reach his ceiling and Hawks can offer it.

DAL - Bagley
He could form exciting pick-and-roll duo with Dennis Smith, would have great coach and Dirk as mentor.

ORL - Young
Magic gets point guard they need.

PHO - Jackson
We needs defense and shooting. Also JJJ is very young but mature player with good bbiq, great motor and is son of former player. McD must love him.

MEM - Porter
Defensive oriented team gets great scorer and shooter. If healthy Marc-Mike-Michael trio could fight for playoffs.

CLE - Bamba
Cavs enters post-LeBron era drafting high potential freak. If they wants to stay competitive they may draft one of Bridges instead and Chicago would happily take Bamba then.


I'll be stoked with all but Bamba and Bagley but still really excited about them as well considering they are still among many people's top prospects. I have concerns, but I thought Bagley was probably the clear cut #1 when he reclassified before his weaknesses shows. But his strengths are dominating in a prime Amare type way.

My gut tells me we land around 5 and take Jackson or maybe Young unless Payton is just a super stud...then Jackson. Those two guys seem like guys McD would love. If Porter passes the tests, I think he'd love him too but that depends on his plans for Chriss and Bender and where to play them and their long term futures...

Though he is still listed as a SF too so if McD thinks of him that way then I think he might pass on him not just for that but with that and his injury concerns.

You'd think most anyone would have Doncic and Ayton 1/2 but who knows with McD these days?
Wilber85
Veteran
Posts: 2,721
And1: 2,421
Joined: Oct 10, 2017

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1490 » by Wilber85 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:44 pm

Qwigglez wrote:Definitely see Young as a Lonzo Ball type where he was super hyped and had the numbers to back him up. Lonzo shot well in college too, but at least he has size. Young looks smaller than Iverson and definitely doesn't have that kind of quickness either. I really don't want Young because, he looks as small as Ennis was when we drafted him. Young will set us back, I really hope the Magic take him and don't repeat history of taking the top big man (Shaq, Dwight).


Lonzo Ball - 14/7 (55/40 %)

Trae Young - 29/9 (50/38 %)
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,143
And1: 61,002
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1491 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:15 pm

Wilber85 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:Definitely see Young as a Lonzo Ball type where he was super hyped and had the numbers to back him up. Lonzo shot well in college too, but at least he has size. Young looks smaller than Iverson and definitely doesn't have that kind of quickness either. I really don't want Young because, he looks as small as Ennis was when we drafted him. Young will set us back, I really hope the Magic take him and don't repeat history of taking the top big man (Shaq, Dwight).


Lonzo Ball - 14/7 (55/40 %)

Trae Young - 29/9 (50/38 %)


On what type of volume though? Lonzo obviously didn't shoot nearly as much or drive it inside a ton and draw the foul. Trae avgs 9.4 free throws a game, hitting 85% of them. Lonzo averaged 2.7 free throws a game hitting 67%.

Trae averages 10.4 3 ptrs a game, on a terrible team with constant defensive focus in a far tougher conference.

Lonzo averaged 5.4 3 ptrs a game on a stacked team with little defensive pressure in a far easier conference.

Lonzo has as ugly as shot as you can have. Trae has great shooting mechanics.

As mentioned often, free throw % is better indicator of translation and probably 3pt % success in nba, and they have a big discrepancy there.
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,553
And1: 14,846
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1492 » by Qwigglez » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:48 pm

I didn't mean anything about the numbers when comparing Young and Ball, just the hype and thinking they will become transcendent players in the league. I just think Young is too small and lacks explosion and quickness. Sure he releases quickly on his jumper, but it won't help when the guards in the NBA have longer wingspans. Just my opinion, but I don't see Curry-like speed, handles, or maneuverability. Not really sure who to compare him to, and I'll happily eat crow if he proves he's anything but maybe an average PG in the league.

Hopefully the Suns just land a big, I'll be taking a closer look at JJJ, since honestly I haven't watched hardly any footage of him yet.
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 22,347
And1: 16,984
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1493 » by Saberestar » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:59 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Damkac wrote:How the draft should looks like for every team to be happy:

SAC - Doncic
If someone could succeed in this dysfunctional team it is Luka. He should also find connection with Vlade and Bogdan.

ATL - Ayton
Ayton needs a good coach to reach his ceiling and Hawks can offer it.

DAL - Bagley
He could form exciting pick-and-roll duo with Dennis Smith, would have great coach and Dirk as mentor.

ORL - Young
Magic gets point guard they need.

PHO - Jackson
We needs defense and shooting. Also JJJ is very young but mature player with good bbiq, great motor and is son of former player. McD must love him.

MEM - Porter
Defensive oriented team gets great scorer and shooter. If healthy Marc-Mike-Michael trio could fight for playoffs.

CLE - Bamba
Cavs enters post-LeBron era drafting high potential freak. If they wants to stay competitive they may draft one of Bridges instead and Chicago would happily take Bamba then.


I'll be stoked with all but Bamba and Bagley but still really excited about them as well considering they are still among many people's top prospects. I have concerns, but I thought Bagley was probably the clear cut #1 when he reclassified before his weaknesses shows. But his strengths are dominating in a prime Amare type way.

My gut tells me we land around 5 and take Jackson or maybe Young unless Payton is just a super stud...then Jackson. Those two guys seem like guys McD would love. If Porter passes the tests, I think he'd love him too but that depends on his plans for Chriss and Bender and where to play them and their long term futures...

Though he is still listed as a SF too so if McD thinks of him that way then I think he might pass on him not just for that but with that and his injury concerns.

You'd think most anyone would have Doncic and Ayton 1/2 but who knows with McD these days?

I am really high on Bagley because I think about him as a C in the NBA. He is relentless fighting for rebounds and an athletic freak who knows how to play around the rim. He reminds me of Amare a little bit too.

He is decent shooting the ball already, his form looks good to me and I think he is gonna be better at that.

He is a legit 6'11, runs the floor like a gazelle and has a high motor on both sides of the court.
Wilber85
Veteran
Posts: 2,721
And1: 2,421
Joined: Oct 10, 2017

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1494 » by Wilber85 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:00 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:Definitely see Young as a Lonzo Ball type where he was super hyped and had the numbers to back him up. Lonzo shot well in college too, but at least he has size. Young looks smaller than Iverson and definitely doesn't have that kind of quickness either. I really don't want Young because, he looks as small as Ennis was when we drafted him. Young will set us back, I really hope the Magic take him and don't repeat history of taking the top big man (Shaq, Dwight).


Lonzo Ball - 14/7 (55/40 %)

Trae Young - 29/9 (50/38 %)


On what type of volume though? Lonzo obviously didn't shoot nearly as much or drive it inside a ton and draw the foul. Trae avgs 9.4 free throws a game, hitting 85% of them. Lonzo averaged 2.7 free throws a game hitting 67%.

Trae averages 10.4 3 ptrs a game, on a terrible team with constant defensive focus in a far tougher conference.

Lonzo averaged 5.4 3 ptrs a game on a stacked team with little defensive pressure in a far easier conference.

Lonzo has as ugly as shot as you can have. Trae has great shooting mechanics.

As mentioned often, free throw % is better indicator of translation and probably 3pt % success in nba, and they have a big discrepancy there.


My statistics were saying . Ball didn't have the numbers to back him up. He was good but not the best in the country.

Trae Young is the best in the country at scoring and assists.
Wilber85
Veteran
Posts: 2,721
And1: 2,421
Joined: Oct 10, 2017

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1495 » by Wilber85 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:00 am

Qwigglez wrote:I didn't mean anything about the numbers when comparing Young and Ball, just the hype and thinking they will become transcendent players in the league. I just think Young is too small and lacks explosion and quickness. Sure he releases quickly on his jumper, but it won't help when the guards in the NBA have longer wingspans. Just my opinion, but I don't see Curry-like speed, handles, or maneuverability. Not really sure who to compare him to, and I'll happily eat crow if he proves he's anything but maybe an average PG in the league.

Hopefully the Suns just land a big, I'll be taking a closer look at JJJ, since honestly I haven't watched hardly any footage of him yet.


I didn't hear much hype about Ball during the college year. Hype came during Draft
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,553
And1: 14,846
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1496 » by Qwigglez » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:05 am

Wilber85 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:I didn't mean anything about the numbers when comparing Young and Ball, just the hype and thinking they will become transcendent players in the league. I just think Young is too small and lacks explosion and quickness. Sure he releases quickly on his jumper, but it won't help when the guards in the NBA have longer wingspans. Just my opinion, but I don't see Curry-like speed, handles, or maneuverability. Not really sure who to compare him to, and I'll happily eat crow if he proves he's anything but maybe an average PG in the league.

Hopefully the Suns just land a big, I'll be taking a closer look at JJJ, since honestly I haven't watched hardly any footage of him yet.


I didn't hear much hype about Ball during the college year. Hype came during Draft


That was all I was hearing last season. Get Ball or Jackson.
ImNotMcDiSwear
General Manager
Posts: 8,287
And1: 6,411
Joined: Dec 14, 2013
 

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1497 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:07 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Damkac wrote:How the draft should looks like for every team to be happy:

SAC - Doncic
If someone could succeed in this dysfunctional team it is Luka. He should also find connection with Vlade and Bogdan.

ATL - Ayton
Ayton needs a good coach to reach his ceiling and Hawks can offer it.

DAL - Bagley
He could form exciting pick-and-roll duo with Dennis Smith, would have great coach and Dirk as mentor.

ORL - Young
Magic gets point guard they need.

PHO - Jackson
We needs defense and shooting. Also JJJ is very young but mature player with good bbiq, great motor and is son of former player. McD must love him.

MEM - Porter
Defensive oriented team gets great scorer and shooter. If healthy Marc-Mike-Michael trio could fight for playoffs.

CLE - Bamba
Cavs enters post-LeBron era drafting high potential freak. If they wants to stay competitive they may draft one of Bridges instead and Chicago would happily take Bamba then.


I'll be stoked with all but Bamba and Bagley but still really excited about them as well considering they are still among many people's top prospects. I have concerns, but I thought Bagley was probably the clear cut #1 when he reclassified before his weaknesses shows. But his strengths are dominating in a prime Amare type way.

My gut tells me we land around 5 and take Jackson or maybe Young unless Payton is just a super stud...then Jackson. Those two guys seem like guys McD would love. If Porter passes the tests, I think he'd love him too but that depends on his plans for Chriss and Bender and where to play them and their long term futures...

Though he is still listed as a SF too so if McD thinks of him that way then I think he might pass on him not just for that but with that and his injury concerns.

You'd think most anyone would have Doncic and Ayton 1/2 but who knows with McD these days?


I think I'd be stoked with any of these players.

Y'all don't remember what it was like when we were drafting in the twenties every year. You're stuck in the rough, where a "diamond" may be. But when you're looking at the top prospects year in, year out, and knowing that if they're good, you won't be able to sign him for 9 years? That suuucks. Unless you're competing for a championship.

If you're not trying to win it all, you better be swimming in lottery balls, I say.
ImNotMcDiSwear
General Manager
Posts: 8,287
And1: 6,411
Joined: Dec 14, 2013
 

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1498 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:08 am

Qwigglez wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:I didn't mean anything about the numbers when comparing Young and Ball, just the hype and thinking they will become transcendent players in the league. I just think Young is too small and lacks explosion and quickness. Sure he releases quickly on his jumper, but it won't help when the guards in the NBA have longer wingspans. Just my opinion, but I don't see Curry-like speed, handles, or maneuverability. Not really sure who to compare him to, and I'll happily eat crow if he proves he's anything but maybe an average PG in the league.

Hopefully the Suns just land a big, I'll be taking a closer look at JJJ, since honestly I haven't watched hardly any footage of him yet.


I didn't hear much hype about Ball during the college year. Hype came during Draft


That was all I was hearing last season. Get Ball or Jackson.


You forgot that, obviously, Fultz would be best of all. Those metrics.
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,553
And1: 14,846
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1499 » by Qwigglez » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:12 am

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
I didn't hear much hype about Ball during the college year. Hype came during Draft


That was all I was hearing last season. Get Ball or Jackson.


You forgot that, obviously, Fultz would be best of all. Those metrics.


You are absolutely right, I completely forgot about Fultz, mostly because he hasn't played this year. :lol:

I really wanted Fultz. Glad we got Jackson, though still kind of torn about Tatum, mostly because I feel him and Booker would have complimented each other very well. Both have that silky smooth style to their game. Obviously Jackson will be the better overall player when it's all said and done. :D
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,143
And1: 61,002
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball 

Post#1500 » by bwgood77 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:14 am

Qwigglez wrote:I didn't mean anything about the numbers when comparing Young and Ball, just the hype and thinking they will become transcendent players in the league. I just think Young is too small and lacks explosion and quickness. Sure he releases quickly on his jumper, but it won't help when the guards in the NBA have longer wingspans. Just my opinion, but I don't see Curry-like speed, handles, or maneuverability. Not really sure who to compare him to, and I'll happily eat crow if he proves he's anything but maybe an average PG in the league.

Hopefully the Suns just land a big, I'll be taking a closer look at JJJ, since honestly I haven't watched hardly any footage of him yet.


I think a lot of people are still very high on Ball. He was averaging 10,7,7 and 1.5. He isn't shooting well to say the least but about half his shots are 3s and he does shoot over 30% so that might improve.

But besides the great assists and boards, and steals, people were most impressed so far with his defense. Per b-ref, he has a drtg of 105 and a DBPM of 2.4. For comparison purposes, Josh Jackson has a 113 and a -1.6 in those categories.

Josh shoots a little better, but Lonzo kills him in every other stat, and it's not particularly close, 7-4 rpg, 7-1 ast/g, double the steals and blocks, etc. I guess per 36 most are closer but Ball still ahead in all, particularly assists obviously.

Make no mistake though. I'd rather have Josh.

But I'm just pointing out I wouldn't call Ball a bust yet unless you are ready to call Josh one. Now of course the Dad's another issue.

Return to Phoenix Suns