Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[Qwigglez]

I know some of these creative extension scenarios with booker sound good in theory but its not going to happen. The first big extension is a life changing amount of money and no player or anyone advising them will do anything but want to get that done as soon as its available. Theres a reason no player has EVER turned down a max rookie extension.

Its easy for us fans to say 'just wait and sign that extension in the summer of 19' but when you have the chance to guarantee yourself over $100mil you do it. Lifes unpredictable and injuries happen its just too big of a risk to ask of a guy.

If they beleive in booker you just get it done this summer. I know these aren't exactly the same circumstances but a couple teams in recent history have hurt themselves with messing around extending stars. Love was pissed they wouldn't give him the 5 year max and that started his eventual leaving. Gordon hayward would still be under contract with the jazz had they extended him instead of letting him hit RFA and matching his deal.

Yep. That makes sense. However, so does the fact that the GM being able to convince the player NOT to take the Max until we get a FA or Trade under contract first. So maybe it's not a whole year, but just a couple of months?

I think (and this is just an example), if we were able sign get Boogie's interest, and told Booker "Hey, we are trying to get Boogie under contract, can you wait a few weeks for us to iron this out?" I'm sure he'd be ok with that.

But absolutely, we need to sign him this summer, if that is what is supposed to happen, and the right thing to do (I'm not overly clear, as you can tell, on how this all works).

But worst case scenario, we do the best we can in the draft, we sign both Booker and Elfrid, which, I fear, is going to be closer to $12-16M per vs $8M per, as some are thinking, and we attempt to compete with what we have so far, until Dudley, Chandler, and BK are resolved.

I'm thinking, if Elfrid maintains something anywhere close to what he's putting up now, say 15/7/5 with at least 37% on 2 Att/Gm, we do everything we can to keep him, draft JJJ and SJA, and move on.

Elfrid / Booker / JJ / Bender / JJJ

SJA / Reed / Warren / Chris / Sauce

+ what ever 2nd Rd picks we get

See what we can do with those, and think about stretching BK next summer for funds...

If we tried to get a top tier free agent this summer such as Boogie it doesn't impact Booker's extension at all. He wouldn't have to wait a couple of weeks. Besides Boogie though I don't see us being remotely interested in the other free agents available, maybe DJ if we drafted anyone but a center in this draft.

[bwgood77]

Get the feeling Jackson will be happy with Triano gone.

Howso? Sounds like he liked sitting down and going through game film with him and stuff.

[BobbieL]

Get the feeling Jackson will be happy with Triano gone.

Howso? Sounds like he liked sitting down and going through game film with him and stuff.

Jackson has improved as the season has progressed.

I see improvement from Bender

at times I see improvement from Chriss

Hence, the coaching decision is critical for next season. If Triano moves on - this cannot be a "lets hire Jason Kidd" - for name recognition or whatever reason. It needs to be a hard core teacher of basketball - the team is too young.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Whatever the rap was on Payton's defense, well, he's better than Bledsoe. The eye test on this point is clear. Better passer than Bledsoe, more efficient, younger, and we own his extension rights. Payton>>>Bledsoe, so far.

We dealt Bledsoe for a first and a second. We took a second and turned it into Payton. We had Bledsoe, now we have Payton and a first.

And people are talking about getting rid of McD!?

[Wilber85]

If you want Lonzo Ball

Sign his Brothers to league minimum and park them on the bench. we don't need to rotate 15 players.


Get ball to sign after his Rookie Contract.

[Sunsdeuce]

Whatever the rap was on Payton's defense, well, he's better than Bledsoe. The eye test on this point is clear. Better passer than Bledsoe, more efficient, younger, and we own his extension rights. Payton>>>Bledsoe, so far.

We dealt Bledsoe for a first and a second. We took a second and turned it into Payton. We had Bledsoe, now we have Payton and a first.

And people are talking about getting rid of McD!?

One decent trade does not erase......the IT, Dragic, Bledsoe mess, trading IT for nothing, trading away the Lakers pick for Knight (than signing him to a huge contract, drafting Alex Len, Tyler Ennis, Archie Goodwin, Chriss, hiring And firing Jeff Horneck, hiring Earl Watson without interviewing a single person, signing Tyson Chandler, failure to sign/trade for a single high profile player in his 6 years, and so on...

[Sunsdeuce]

If you want Lonzo Ball

Sign his Brothers to league minimum and park them on the bench. we don't need to rotate 15 players.


Get ball to sign after his Rookie Contract.

No thanks, Kendall Marshall.....I mean Lonzo Ball is not that good and he can’t shoot. Not only do the Lakers get to keep his atrocious shooting but that get to keep LaVar. Suckers

[Desertfox]

Any interest in picking up Troy Williams? We do need shooters.

[JMac1]

I'm sold on JJJ or Ayton now...

Which means Suns need a veteran big man to help with the load.

Welcome aboard that JJJ train. Also feeling Ayton. Thank God for Payton as of now.

[JMac1]

Get the feeling Jackson will be happy with Triano gone.

Howso? Sounds like he liked sitting down and going through game film with him and stuff.

Yea. However, people cried about JJ earning his right to start and since the beginning of the year, after coming off of the bench and being benched for a game and taking it like a man, JJ has earned the right to start; and throw in the fact that he is supposed to be growing with Booker...? Yea get him as much playing time as possible with Booker and a little more rope for mistakes. Triano needs to stop with the automatic sit the player rotation like EJ said during the GS game. Last night was pretty good substitution with JJ tho.

I think Triano needs to learn how to substitute better. And he should be starting Payton, Booker, JJ, TJ, and Bender for the rest of the season....Not Len!

[Sreister]

Whatever the rap was on Payton's defense, well, he's better than Bledsoe. The eye test on this point is clear. Better passer than Bledsoe, more efficient, younger, and we own his extension rights. Payton>>>Bledsoe, so far.

We dealt Bledsoe for a first and a second. We took a second and turned it into Payton. We had Bledsoe, now we have Payton and a first.

And people are talking about getting rid of McD!?

One decent trade does not erase......the IT, Dragic, Bledsoe mess, trading IT for nothing, trading away the Lakers pick for Knight (than signing him to a huge contract, drafting Alex Len, Tyler Ennis, Archie Goodwin, Chriss, hiring And firing Jeff Horneck, hiring Earl Watson without interviewing a single person, signing Tyson Chandler, failure to sign/trade for a single high profile player in his 6 years, and so on...

IT, Dragic, Bled: It could have worked. No one knew how personalities would mesh. Swing and a miss for sure, but I don't blame him TOO much on trying it. But how it was handled after **** started to hit the fan is definitely a black mark. That leads into the IT trade. He blew up for ONE YEAR and MAYBE another half year but still, he was a flame and will die out soon. We had no idea he was capable of what he pulled in Boston.

Knight: Another yes/no scenario. We signed him because he was young, up and coming, and it just didn't work out. You could argue he wasn't what we needed along side Bled, but then again it's just one of those things where if it works GREAT and if it doesn't, well another swing and a miss. Slight black mark. But the story isn't over with him. He has a lot to prove and hopefully comes back a new man. I'm willing to let him show us what he has once he comes back. Why not? We're paying him.

Drafting Len, Ennis, Archie: Not sure what you're trying to argue here. Len was where anyone would have drafted him, outside of maybe Noel. Noel is maybe slightly better, but we took a flyer on someone who could have been more well rounded as opposed to a one trick pony. Ennis and Archie, eh. Ennis had a big season/touney run at Cuse that season and Archie was dripping with potential, especially at 29. Why is that a black mark in your eye? Sure Ennis didn't last long, but he was drafted 18th. It's not weird to swing and miss at that stage in the draft.

Tyson I'll give you under the condition that we signed him TOO long. The money was fine, but half the years and it'd be fine. Especially since we wanted to carry on that year we had and improve now by adding LMA. Didn't work out obviously and the Chandler contract still haunts us. But he's a good locker room presence and I like him on the team. Just makes WAY too much money. I can see him and Duds taking player dev coaching deals potentially for us. They seem to love us here.

Failure to sign players: Ok yeah, but not for lack of effort. Supposedly in the LBJ sweepstakes, LMA obviously almost came here. I do wish he could have made a bigger splash last years draft/trade, FA period.

So all of that said, he's been about 50/50 in my eyes. I believe in the direction we're going though and still have faith that he's learned along the way. We don't need someone else to learn while on the clock like you ABSOLUTELY know Sarver would do.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Whatever the rap was on Payton's defense, well, he's better than Bledsoe. The eye test on this point is clear. Better passer than Bledsoe, more efficient, younger, and we own his extension rights. Payton>>>Bledsoe, so far.

We dealt Bledsoe for a first and a second. We took a second and turned it into Payton. We had Bledsoe, now we have Payton and a first.

And people are talking about getting rid of McD!?

One decent trade does not erase......the IT, Dragic, Bledsoe mess, trading IT for nothing, trading away the Lakers pick for Knight (than signing him to a huge contract, drafting Alex Len, Tyler Ennis, Archie Goodwin, Chriss, hiring And firing Jeff Horneck, hiring Earl Watson without interviewing a single person, signing Tyson Chandler, failure to sign/trade for a single high profile player in his 6 years, and so on...

Calling it a "mess" is a great way to skip any useful analysis. We traded scraps for Bledsoe, which we turned into a future first. We signed IT for nothing and turned cap space into a pick. We turned Dragic into two picks. That's FOUR firts in a league where firsts are very, very, very hard to come by. That mess has turned out great. If you thought that team was going anywhere, you were delusional.

No one defends trading that LAL pick for Knight. But no one knows to what extent that component was necessary to turn Dragic into two firsts. I maintain that there is a possible causal link, as I've discussed previously.

Len? That draft was tough. Best players were taken 16, 27, 2, 11 and 12, in that order. The players that we "should" have taken based on most prognosticators' big boards were Noel and McLemore. Len has turned out better than those two, fwiw.

Goodwin was a fine pick at 28. You take a stab. ****. I didn't like the Ennis selection, either. I would have taken Anderson. Who would you have taken? Apparently we were trying to game TOR. We failed. But compare these picks to those made by the rest of the league. You really think McD hasn't done a good job at drafting players, overall?

Jury's still out on Chriss. If your verdict is in, then maybe you've been listening to too much talk radio or too many of our own hot takes. But once again, you take a stab. ****!

I don't care about the coaches. We've been rebuilding. I don't see what the possible benefit of having Phil Jackson or Larry Brown on that bench would have been.

What have we lost by having Tyson here, exactly? We can point to the possibility of adding a better player this summer, but I do think it's been good for us to have a vet with some true bona fides on this roster to give these guys some perspective. What you are a #5 pick? #4? #8? I was the #2 pick. And here's the truth about the league, kid.

"Failure" to sign players. It would have been a failure if we HAD signed players, in my view, unless the contracts had value sufficient to turn those players into future firsts. I much prefer the lotto picks we've added. Would rather have Dragan and Jackson that LaMarcus freaking Aldridge. Would rather have a top pick this year than Blake freaking Griffin.

Your complaints are mostly without perspective, in my view.

[Hesh]

Whatever the rap was on Payton's defense, well, he's better than Bledsoe. The eye test on this point is clear. Better passer than Bledsoe, more efficient, younger, and we own his extension rights. Payton>>>Bledsoe, so far.

We dealt Bledsoe for a first and a second. We took a second and turned it into Payton. We had Bledsoe, now we have Payton and a first.

And people are talking about getting rid of McD!?

One decent trade does not erase......the IT, Dragic, Bledsoe mess, trading IT for nothing, trading away the Lakers pick for Knight (than signing him to a huge contract, drafting Alex Len, Tyler Ennis, Archie Goodwin, Chriss, hiring And firing Jeff Horneck, hiring Earl Watson without interviewing a single person, signing Tyson Chandler, failure to sign/trade for a single high profile player in his 6 years, and so on...

So he didn't hit 100% on all his draft picks, which GM does? 2013 Draft was bad. We picked Alex Len at #4 and rightfully so because from #4 through to #10 who else was there that we should've picked? CJ McCollum wasn't expected to be a high lottery pick and he's the only one that stands out after Alex Len at #10. The Greek Freak, yeah 13 other GM's passed on him too.

Ennis, Archie ( picks #18 and #28) these late picks can go either way for any team. That's not on him.

Chriss, who else after Chriss would have been a better choice both now and at the time of the draft?

Hiring Hornaceck? We almost made playoffs with him the first season but due to Dragic and the Morris twins, he lost the locker room.

Earl Watson, yeah, not gonna argue that one, that was dumb. So we can chalk this one up to a real McD failure.

Chandler, probably not the best signing.

Failure to sign/trade for a single high profile player. Welcome to the NBA where 20+ other teams are also struggling in this area.

Lakers pick for Knight, at that time Knight was a borderline all-star and Lakers being who they are, no one really expected them to be this bad for this long. But this one could go either way too, as trading future assets is always a gamble. But hindsight is 20/20 and it's obvious now that it was a bad decision.

Conclusively, he's made some good and poor decisions, neither one outweighs the other, so his grade is roughly neutral. A lot better than many other GM's in the league, about on par with others but not as great as a handful of them. That's not bad considering everything in context and building from scratch.

[Hesh]

Spoiler:

Whatever the rap was on Payton's defense, well, he's better than Bledsoe. The eye test on this point is clear. Better passer than Bledsoe, more efficient, younger, and we own his extension rights. Payton>>>Bledsoe, so far.

We dealt Bledsoe for a first and a second. We took a second and turned it into Payton. We had Bledsoe, now we have Payton and a first.

And people are talking about getting rid of McD!?

One decent trade does not erase......the IT, Dragic, Bledsoe mess, trading IT for nothing, trading away the Lakers pick for Knight (than signing him to a huge contract, drafting Alex Len, Tyler Ennis, Archie Goodwin, Chriss, hiring And firing Jeff Horneck, hiring Earl Watson without interviewing a single person, signing Tyson Chandler, failure to sign/trade for a single high profile player in his 6 years, and so on...

IT, Dragic, Bled: It could have worked. No one knew how personalities would mesh. Swing and a miss for sure, but I don't blame him TOO much on trying it. But how it was handled after **** started to hit the fan is definitely a black mark. That leads into the IT trade. He blew up for ONE YEAR and MAYBE another half year but still, he was a flame and will die out soon. We had no idea he was capable of what he pulled in Boston.

Knight: Another yes/no scenario. We signed him because he was young, up and coming, and it just didn't work out. You could argue he wasn't what we needed along side Bled, but then again it's just one of those things where if it works GREAT and if it doesn't, well another swing and a miss. Slight black mark. But the story isn't over with him. He has a lot to prove and hopefully comes back a new man. I'm willing to let him show us what he has once he comes back. Why not? We're paying him.

Drafting Len, Ennis, Archie: Not sure what you're trying to argue here. Len was where anyone would have drafted him, outside of maybe Noel. Noel is maybe slightly better, but we took a flyer on someone who could have been more well rounded as opposed to a one trick pony. Ennis and Archie, eh. Ennis had a big season/touney run at Cuse that season and Archie was dripping with potential, especially at 29. Why is that a black mark in your eye? Sure Ennis didn't last long, but he was drafted 18th. It's not weird to swing and miss at that stage in the draft.

Tyson I'll give you under the condition that we signed him TOO long. The money was fine, but half the years and it'd be fine. Especially since we wanted to carry on that year we had and improve now by adding LMA. Didn't work out obviously and the Chandler contract still haunts us. But he's a good locker room presence and I like him on the team. Just makes WAY too much money. I can see him and Duds taking player dev coaching deals potentially for us. They seem to love us here.

Failure to sign players: Ok yeah, but not for lack of effort. Supposedly in the LBJ sweepstakes, LMA obviously almost came here. I do wish he could have made a bigger splash last years draft/trade, FA period.

So all of that said, he's been about 50/50 in my eyes. I believe in the direction we're going though and still have faith that he's learned along the way. We don't need someone else to learn while on the clock like you ABSOLUTELY know Sarver would do.

Lol I did not see your post and it didn't take me 30 minutes to write mine, or maybe it did since I was multi-tasking. But we basically had the same take on all points even our conclusion was eerily identical

[gaspar]

Watch on YouTube

3 years later they won 67 games and the championship.

Every rebuild looks bad, until suddenly it doesn't.

[Sreister]

Spoiler:

One decent trade does not erase......the IT, Dragic, Bledsoe mess, trading IT for nothing, trading away the Lakers pick for Knight (than signing him to a huge contract, drafting Alex Len, Tyler Ennis, Archie Goodwin, Chriss, hiring And firing Jeff Horneck, hiring Earl Watson without interviewing a single person, signing Tyson Chandler, failure to sign/trade for a single high profile player in his 6 years, and so on...

IT, Dragic, Bled: It could have worked. No one knew how personalities would mesh. Swing and a miss for sure, but I don't blame him TOO much on trying it. But how it was handled after **** started to hit the fan is definitely a black mark. That leads into the IT trade. He blew up for ONE YEAR and MAYBE another half year but still, he was a flame and will die out soon. We had no idea he was capable of what he pulled in Boston.

Knight: Another yes/no scenario. We signed him because he was young, up and coming, and it just didn't work out. You could argue he wasn't what we needed along side Bled, but then again it's just one of those things where if it works GREAT and if it doesn't, well another swing and a miss. Slight black mark. But the story isn't over with him. He has a lot to prove and hopefully comes back a new man. I'm willing to let him show us what he has once he comes back. Why not? We're paying him.

Drafting Len, Ennis, Archie: Not sure what you're trying to argue here. Len was where anyone would have drafted him, outside of maybe Noel. Noel is maybe slightly better, but we took a flyer on someone who could have been more well rounded as opposed to a one trick pony. Ennis and Archie, eh. Ennis had a big season/touney run at Cuse that season and Archie was dripping with potential, especially at 29. Why is that a black mark in your eye? Sure Ennis didn't last long, but he was drafted 18th. It's not weird to swing and miss at that stage in the draft.

Tyson I'll give you under the condition that we signed him TOO long. The money was fine, but half the years and it'd be fine. Especially since we wanted to carry on that year we had and improve now by adding LMA. Didn't work out obviously and the Chandler contract still haunts us. But he's a good locker room presence and I like him on the team. Just makes WAY too much money. I can see him and Duds taking player dev coaching deals potentially for us. They seem to love us here.

Failure to sign players: Ok yeah, but not for lack of effort. Supposedly in the LBJ sweepstakes, LMA obviously almost came here. I do wish he could have made a bigger splash last years draft/trade, FA period.

So all of that said, he's been about 50/50 in my eyes. I believe in the direction we're going though and still have faith that he's learned along the way. We don't need someone else to learn while on the clock like you ABSOLUTELY know Sarver would do.

Lol I did not see your post and it didn't take me 30 minutes to write mine, or maybe it did since I was multi-tasking. But we basically had the same take on all points even our conclusion was eerily identical

Between you, me, and McD over there (not fooling anyone), I think WE TOLD HIM!

[Hesh]

Spoiler:

IT, Dragic, Bled: It could have worked. No one knew how personalities would mesh. Swing and a miss for sure, but I don't blame him TOO much on trying it. But how it was handled after **** started to hit the fan is definitely a black mark. That leads into the IT trade. He blew up for ONE YEAR and MAYBE another half year but still, he was a flame and will die out soon. We had no idea he was capable of what he pulled in Boston.

Knight: Another yes/no scenario. We signed him because he was young, up and coming, and it just didn't work out. You could argue he wasn't what we needed along side Bled, but then again it's just one of those things where if it works GREAT and if it doesn't, well another swing and a miss. Slight black mark. But the story isn't over with him. He has a lot to prove and hopefully comes back a new man. I'm willing to let him show us what he has once he comes back. Why not? We're paying him.

Drafting Len, Ennis, Archie: Not sure what you're trying to argue here. Len was where anyone would have drafted him, outside of maybe Noel. Noel is maybe slightly better, but we took a flyer on someone who could have been more well rounded as opposed to a one trick pony. Ennis and Archie, eh. Ennis had a big season/touney run at Cuse that season and Archie was dripping with potential, especially at 29. Why is that a black mark in your eye? Sure Ennis didn't last long, but he was drafted 18th. It's not weird to swing and miss at that stage in the draft.

Tyson I'll give you under the condition that we signed him TOO long. The money was fine, but half the years and it'd be fine. Especially since we wanted to carry on that year we had and improve now by adding LMA. Didn't work out obviously and the Chandler contract still haunts us. But he's a good locker room presence and I like him on the team. Just makes WAY too much money. I can see him and Duds taking player dev coaching deals potentially for us. They seem to love us here.

Failure to sign players: Ok yeah, but not for lack of effort. Supposedly in the LBJ sweepstakes, LMA obviously almost came here. I do wish he could have made a bigger splash last years draft/trade, FA period.

So all of that said, he's been about 50/50 in my eyes. I believe in the direction we're going though and still have faith that he's learned along the way. We don't need someone else to learn while on the clock like you ABSOLUTELY know Sarver would do.

Lol I did not see your post and it didn't take me 30 minutes to write mine, or maybe it did since I was multi-tasking. But we basically had the same take on all points even our conclusion was eerily identical

Between you, me, and McD over there (not fooling anyone), I think WE TOLD HIM!

McD really going in over there It's been a frustrating season for him but his points are valid and he deserves to pat himself on the back for that one

[NavLDO]

I want the Suns to field 5 tall atheletic multi skilled players on the court at all times.

McD better be on the phone midnight this coming off season FA period talking to Paul George.

Why? To ask him nicely to go easy on us next year when he's with the Lakers?

I know, defeatest attitude. But it almost seems like a foregone conclusion as to where he's headed...

[BobbieL]

Watch on YouTube

3 years later they won 67 games and the championship.

Every rebuild looks bad, until suddenly it doesn't.

I make this point. GSW was terrible from 1995 to 2011
one playoff - they beat the Mavericks in round 1 too

but in and around - horrible
but they drafted Curry
drafted Klay
traded Monte for Bogut
drafted Barnes/Green
made a trade with the Jazz - dumped two first, Biedrins and Rush so they could sign Iguodala

As Suns fans - what if they had traded Amare for Curry, Wright Biedrins as was discussed - different franchise

Suns I think have take the right approach. Just have to see if the draft picks pan out.

[kennydorglas]

Watch on YouTube

3 years later they won 67 games and the championship.

Every rebuild looks bad, until suddenly it doesn't.

Great find.