Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[KLEON]

Everyone clowning the Suns now. McD you better do something big this off season to make this team a contender because its becoming embarrassing

[Synyster9]

I've been out of the loop as far as watching these college players that I see all of the time in this forum. Even as a Wildcat fan (also like the Sun Devils even if it's a sin, I'm an Arizona Sports fan, what can I say?) I haven't watched any college basketball this year. I just got cable and was able to watch the Duel in the Desert last night. And OH MY Ayton is a beast!!!! I haven't seen doncic or Bagley play, but after watching last nights game, I can't see how they could be better than Ayton. He looks like he's ready to step into the NBA and dominate already. It's crazy to me that he has only been playing for 5 years! His basketball instincts are superb. I know it's only a 1 game sample size for me, but I've definitely bought into the Ayton Hype and I'm on that train pushing my way to the front.

I'm ready to sell the farm for Ayton (outside of Booker, Bender, Jackson) Sell Chriss, Miami 1sts, Mil 1st, whatever is necessary to make sure we get Ayton, I'd be reluctant to give up Warren as I love him, but if it was the kicker, Ayton looks like a franchise changer. Best case Scenario, we get the 1st pick and keep those picks and move on from Chriss, Len, Ulis. I Say re-sign chandler for the Vet Min after his contract is up to continue to mentor Bender and Ayton (if he'd be willing to do that with minimal playing time and we can stomach his current contract for the last year) and keep Dudley for the same thing and an energy spark when needed. Re-Sign Payton. We could also use the Miami pick (and the Mil pick IF it conveys) along with Chriss to move up to get Trae Young. This lineup would give me a nerdy for years to come as a suns fan...

Payton/Young (Booker run some point when needed)
Booker/Knight/Daniels
Jackson/Warren/Dudley
Bender/FA/Peters
Ayton/Sauce/Chandler

Without really knowing how to use this Capulator yet (first attempt) here's a rough overview

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=15340051185a86f9575ca24851270859

[TOO]

Jamal Murray is so niceeeee. Him and Booker together would’ve been wild!

Instead we have Bender...

Jamal is a great young player, but long term, I for one am very pleased we took Bender...even now. Murray is not a real point guard.

With Bledsoe and Booker in place, to take Murray woulda been a curious chess move type pick. Then Bender would have been chosen before #8 ...so Murray and Chriss the likely result. If taking Murray had panned out into Murray and Bender being Suns? Sign me up! Just don't think it would have happened.

It doesn’t matter if he’s a “real point guard” or not, the Nuggets are still winning ball games with both him and Gary Harris who isn’t a “real point guard” either in the backcourt. They’ve completed their rebuild and one of the best young rosters in the league with the amount of star power and spacing they have.

Murray/Booker would’ve worked fine here especially if we had like Jackson starting at the 3 because then while nobody is great playmaking wise, everyone would at least be good enough to playmake some which would make it enough.

The Nuggets, along with the Jazz, 76ers and Timberwolves are teams who started their rebuild around the same time as the Suns and have now turned into playoff teams.

All of those teams have all-star bigs. We don't, therein lies the difference.

[bwgood77]

Jamal Murray is so niceeeee. Him and Booker together would’ve been wild!

Instead we have Bender...

Jamal is a great young player, but long term, I for one am very pleased we took Bender...even now. Murray is not a real point guard.

With Bledsoe and Booker in place, to take Murray woulda been a curious chess move type pick. Then Bender would have been chosen before #8 ...so Murray and Chriss the likely result. If taking Murray had panned out into Murray and Bender being Suns? Sign me up! Just don't think it would have happened.

It doesn’t matter if he’s a “real point guard” or not, the Nuggets are still winning ball games with both him and Gary Harris who isn’t a “real point guard” either in the backcourt. They’ve completed their rebuild and one of the best young rosters in the league with the amount of star power and spacing they have.

Murray/Booker would’ve worked fine here especially if we had like Jackson starting at the 3 because then while nobody is great playmaking wise, everyone would at least be good enough to playmake some which would make it enough.

The Nuggets, along with the Jazz, 76ers and Timberwolves are teams who started their rebuild around the same time as the Suns and have now turned into playoff teams.

I've always thought Denver would be really good. Jokic is a huge difference maker and Harris is underrated. A lot of people thought we'd be better than them, but then again some (or at least one) thought Bender can be better than Jokic.

Murray has struggled for a large part of the year and has had his occasional very nice game, like Bender. I've always been high on the draft. They killed it in the Nurkic/Harris/Jokic draft, the last two we could have had instead of Ennis/Bogdanovic.

Murray has had some good games. Most of the year he has been pretty bad though. Usually maybe their 4th best player or worse. If Millsap is there, definitely their 4th best, or 5th. He's got it pretty easy.

It's easy to bet on Murray being the better player in the long run now, because he is now, so it's the easy take. But players like Murray are around every year and easier to come by. Players with Bender's versatility and length are fairly rare. I'm fine rolling the dice with him and having Payton/Booker in the backcourt or adding Young/Doncic.

[NavLDO]

Obviously too soon to be sold on Elfrid, but if he continues to put up solid numbers until seasons end, does that change our draft strategy?

I think the Heat will give us the 12 or 13 spot and the bucks will give us that 16 or 17 spot. Do we go after a 4 and 5 in this deep 4/5 draft?

I think that 7 spot has a lot value without carrying the weight of a top 3 or top 5 pick, but you can still get a 'potential' generational type player who could have arguably been a top 3 or 5 pick. Looking at the number 7 in most mocks usually has one of the 4 in this spot: bagley, bamba, porter and *young ...not a 4 or 5, but great value pick!

We potentially have 4 picks that would require a roster spot (high 1st, heat, bucks and a high 2nd). Quality over quantity?

Option 1: heat pick plus bucks pick for the number 7? Is that too much, not enough? We still have a high 2nd to offer? Ayton or Docnic with any of those 4 at 7 seems legit.

Option 2: heat pick plus suns high 2nd round pick and chriss for number 7? Im guessing, lets say, ayton, porter or bagley, and bender would make Chriss the odd man out? Then take Shai, Simmons or Mitchell with the bucks pick.

Or

Option 3: bucks pick, marquisse chriss, suns early 2nd round pick, another filler pick and or player and maybe grab an ayton, bagley/porter/bamba an colin sexton with the heat pick...unless we get Young.

I dunno....not even sure how to determine 7 spot value from a trading standpoint, but I think its an attractive and obtainable spot.

We probably won't get the Bucks pick and the Heat pick will likely be in the late teens. And no team in the top 7 is trading out of this stacked top 7 draft for a pick in the teens and a pick next year. They need talent now too....the bottom 8 teams are all really bad.

I disagree. Heat could be 12 through 14; buck pick im not as sold on, but i think 16 or 17 is possible.

The 12th, 16th, *31st and Chriss for the number 7 maybe? I dont know for certain if any team will, but i know you dont know for certain every team wont

17th is literally impossible, since it's protection is from 17-30, on the back half...and highly doubtful they fall to 16th, IMO.

[Jdiddy701]

Murray is on a different atmosphere than Bender. If Suns had Murray and Booker, I’d feel very bad for the league. Would be crazy fun to watch.

Bender is a nice role player, does not have the it factor like Murray does. Bender will be a solid stretch big man though, not an all-star like Murray.


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I will bet you $1000 Murray never makes an all star team

That’s easy money.


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[King4Day]

I feel like we could be on the level of Philly in terms of future potential title contenders built on youth if we can somehow land Ayton. I have a good feeling about him. It's easy to say a player fits with a team, but he's a center who can do just about everything. Adding him with Payton, Booker, Jackson, and Bender and we'd have shooting, defense and everything in between. Scary to think how high the ceiling could become.

It will hurt so bad if the Lakers pick lands in the top 3. Really hoping LA goes on a run and their pick is outside the top 5. If not, this could turn into a franchise altering move that McD botched.

[BobbieL]

I feel like we could be on the level of Philly in terms of future potential title contenders built on youth if we can somehow land Ayton. I have a good feeling about him. It's easy to say a player fits with a team, but he's a center who can do just about everything. Adding him with Payton, Booker, Jackson, and Bender and we'd have shooting, defense and everything in between. Scary to think how high the ceiling could become.

It will hurt so bad if the Lakers pick lands in the top 3. Really hoping LA goes on a run and their pick is outside the top 5. If not, this could turn into a franchise altering move that McD botched.

LA doesn't get a pick
If its 1 or 6-30 - its goes to Philly
If its 2-5 it goes to Boston

I do worry the ping pong balls will benefit say the Cavs (via the Nets - though the Nets are tanking) and the Celtics more than the Suns

Philly doesn't need it either

It should go to Suns, Mavs, Kings or Hawks

[King4Day]

I feel like we could be on the level of Philly in terms of future potential title contenders built on youth if we can somehow land Ayton. I have a good feeling about him. It's easy to say a player fits with a team, but he's a center who can do just about everything. Adding him with Payton, Booker, Jackson, and Bender and we'd have shooting, defense and everything in between. Scary to think how high the ceiling could become.

It will hurt so bad if the Lakers pick lands in the top 3. Really hoping LA goes on a run and their pick is outside the top 5. If not, this could turn into a franchise altering move that McD botched.

LA doesn't get a pick
If its 1 or 6-30 - its goes to Philly
If its 2-5 it goes to Boston

I do worry the ping pong balls will benefit say the Cavs (via the Nets - though the Nets are tanking) and the Celtics more than the Suns

Philly doesn't need it either

It should go to Suns, Mavs, Kings or Hawks

Right, I'm saying it was our pick which we moved for Knight. Imagine having the ability to draft both Ayton and Young or Doncic? It's going to be a pit in my stomach for years or longer to think of what could have been.

Aside from us, I would rather see the Kings or Hawks get high picks too. Magic I wouldn't care about either.

[BobbieL]

I feel like we could be on the level of Philly in terms of future potential title contenders built on youth if we can somehow land Ayton. I have a good feeling about him. It's easy to say a player fits with a team, but he's a center who can do just about everything. Adding him with Payton, Booker, Jackson, and Bender and we'd have shooting, defense and everything in between. Scary to think how high the ceiling could become.

It will hurt so bad if the Lakers pick lands in the top 3. Really hoping LA goes on a run and their pick is outside the top 5. If not, this could turn into a franchise altering move that McD botched.

LA doesn't get a pick
If its 1 or 6-30 - its goes to Philly
If its 2-5 it goes to Boston

I do worry the ping pong balls will benefit say the Cavs (via the Nets - though the Nets are tanking) and the Celtics more than the Suns

Philly doesn't need it either

It should go to Suns, Mavs, Kings or Hawks

Right, I'm saying it was our pick which we moved for Knight. Imagine having the ability to draft both Ayton and Young or Doncic? It's going to be a pit in my stomach for years or longer to think of what could have been.

Aside from us, I would rather see the Kings or Hawks get high picks too. Magic I wouldn't care about either.

Sorry misread. Just not the Celtics, Sixers or Cavs - they are fine.

[NavLDO]

If Doncic and Ayton are off the board I could see Jaren Jackson being next up.

I can see that being a possibility. Ayton and Doncic seem to be 1/2 or 1A and 1B.

End of the day - even with Payton on board , and even having four young forwards in Bender, WArren, Chriss and Jackson - I don't think McD needs to get cute on draft day and try to plug a need. Just rank the players, and go BPA.

I want Doncic or Ayton today and everyday until ping pong day.

You see Ayton play - like last night - and the potential is there to be a dominating offensive player.

Which to me, is another reason why I was so happy to see the Elfrid trade. Now we (as fans) and McD (as GM) doesn't have it in the back of our/his mind when our pick comes around...something like "Man, I really like that Jaren Jackson kid, but we REALLY need a PG. Trae Young seemed to tail off some, but he's still good, right? We NEED to pick him."

I really do not want that creeping in McD's subconscious at all. If Michael Porter Jr is the BPA, then take him. We can cover the 5 with the Miami pick; some pretty darn good Centers left to choose from in Yurtseven (or so I hear), Gafford, McCoy, Robinson is supposed to have some elite skills...

Anyway, plenty of good PGs or Cs to be had later in the draft that likely only lack either youth/upside, or simply hype. How many non-hyped players have come into the NBA and taken it by storm? Plenty, I'd say.

[Wilber85]

Murray is on a different atmosphere than Bender. If Suns had Murray and Booker, I’d feel very bad for the league. Would be crazy fun to watch.

Bender is a nice role player, does not have the it factor like Murray does. Bender will be a solid stretch big man though, not an all-star like Murray.


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I will bet you $1000 Murray never makes an all star team

That’s easy money.


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So are you down to bet? We can even put a time frame in place. DM me.

I will put $1000 he will never be an all star.

Curry
Booker (He will make it before murray ever will)
Harden
Westbrook
Lillard
May even get a few more stars in the drafts coming up (Trae Young, etc.)

Will all control the west for the next 5 years.

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[woosah]

Good vid. ^^ I like how he handled the question about the perception of the Suns being a joke (between 13-14min mark). He seems transparent, but then again i am comparing him to our recent fo who didn't interview much. Based on this sounds like Triano has his support. It may just be GM speak though.

[bwgood77]

I will bet you $1000 Murray never makes an all star team

That’s easy money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So are you down to bet? We can even put a time frame in place. DM me.

I will put $1000 he will never be an all star.

Curry
Booker (He will make it before murray ever will)
Harden
Westbrook
Lillard
May even get a few more stars in the drafts coming up (Trae Young, etc.)

Will all control the west for the next 5 years.

Even of young guys, there are a ton of others. Donovan Mitchell is a guy I'd MUCH rather have than Murray. Murray's not even as good as his teammate Harris yet. Jokic is better than all of them and didn't even make the all star.

And the last couple of selections can be any position so guys like Butler, George, Jokic, etc.....because Towns, Davis, Cousins and the usuals will get the big spots....Cousins if he ever gets his health back.

[Mulhollanddrive]

McDonough said Rondo use to win 24 games and check out his recent teams lol.

He loves a good PG insult.

[thamadkant]

We probably won't get the Bucks pick and the Heat pick will likely be in the late teens. And no team in the top 7 is trading out of this stacked top 7 draft for a pick in the teens and a pick next year. They need talent now too....the bottom 8 teams are all really bad.

I disagree. Heat could be 12 through 14; buck pick im not as sold on, but i think 16 or 17 is possible.

The 12th, 16th, *31st and Chriss for the number 7 maybe? I dont know for certain if any team will, but i know you dont know for certain every team wont

17th is literally impossible, since it's protection is from 17-30, on the back half...and highly doubtful they fall to 16th, IMO.

I think nuggets lucked out a lot on Jokic. Or other teams severel underestimated his confidence and IQ. He looked soft... Unathletic... Etc... But has skills. Red flags But his IQs so high.

[bigfoot]

Yea. However, people cried about JJ earning his right to start and since the beginning of the year, after coming off of the bench and being benched for a game and taking it like a man, JJ has earned the right to start; and throw in the fact that he is supposed to be growing with Booker...? Yea get him as much playing time as possible with Booker and a little more rope for mistakes. Triano needs to stop with the automatic sit the player rotation like EJ said during the GS game. Last night was pretty good substitution with JJ tho.

I think Triano needs to learn how to substitute better. And he should be starting Payton, Booker, JJ, TJ, and Bender for the rest of the season....Not Len!

No I think what you are seeing is JJ is able to dominate the other teams bench players. That makes sense. He will definitely be a starter at some point but right now he has been building his confidence by dominating off the bench. Why screw that up and put him against an older, better veteran. I do agree with you that Payton, Booker, JJ, TJ, and Bender should be our starting lineup at some point before the season ends. Though our bench will be hideous: PG Uliis or Gray, SG Reed, SF Daniels, PF Chriss or Dudley, C Chandler or Len. I don't see how that bench scores. Our bench needs to be addressed during the summer. Dump/trade most of these guys and replace them with some quality veterans.

one year early for that but two draft picks - if they use both of them will continue to help build this roster... but say Payton works out and he is back in 2018, that helps; if Knight is back, that helps; signing a guy should help; more experience for Bender, Chriss, JJ, Reed, should help; Sauce back, should help

I am not saying play off team - I am saying better

It's definitely not going to be acceptable to let this roster stand pat by bringing on two rookies. By adding more youth we will be losing by 40 again next year. We definitely have players we should cut ties with so we can try to get better veterans. Remember our players need to be challenge in practice. I would rather see Bender, Jackson, and the rookies practicing against solid veterans so they get better. Practicing against rookies doesn't help.

Players we should keep are Booker, Bender, Jackson, Warren, Payton, Williams, Daniels, Dudley, Chandler, and Knight

Players we should trade are Chriss, Reed, Ulis, and Peters or just waive the last three

With our two first and high second round pick that is 13 spots and leaves room for two quality veteran free agents. If we could get rid of Dudley and Chandler and replace with quality vets (younger and in better shape) we should.

[bigfoot]

Per 30:
Mike James (first 4 games) 19 points, 5 assists, 2 rebounds @ 59/38/88
Isaiah Canaan (first 4 games) 15 points, 6 assists, 5 rebounds @ 40/42/98
Elfrid Payton (first 3 games) 17 points, 7 assists, 7 rebounds @ 58/50/83

Sample size, eye test. I wouldn't even let the first two tie Elfrids shoelaces. While I'm not even sure Elfird is our starting PG going forward.

Agreed ... Another important factor is James and Canaan got their stats mostly against bench players while Elfrid has gotten his against starters from Utah, Golden State, and Nuggets.

[Sunzgunz]

We probably won't get the Bucks pick and the Heat pick will likely be in the late teens. And no team in the top 7 is trading out of this stacked top 7 draft for a pick in the teens and a pick next year. They need talent now too....the bottom 8 teams are all really bad.

I disagree. Heat could be 12 through 14; buck pick im not as sold on, but i think 16 or 17 is possible.

The 12th, 16th, *31st and Chriss for the number 7 maybe? I dont know for certain if any team will, but i know you dont know for certain every team wont

17th is literally impossible, since it's protection is from 17-30, on the back half...and highly doubtful they fall to 16th, IMO.

Im not claiming we get the pick at 17, thats why i used 16th in our possible pick package. I think16 or 17 is a remotely possibility.....not likely, but they got a tough stretch and theres teams behind playing well. How will they perform in this 9 game stretch (currently 0-1)? If not well, what impact will it have on their psyche and their ability to hold off teams that are currently behind them? ....only time will tell!