NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball

[Foliohattu]

Would be some interesting lineups with Doncic. If we retain Payton, Elf-Booker-Doncic-JJ-Bender lineup would have 5 guys who can push the ball down the court after a defensive rebound.

[Mr Puddles]

Another thing to consider is, say we draft 3rd and Ayton and Doncic are off the board, or 4th and those two and Bagley are off the board.

Say we pass on Young and take one of the other guys and then Payton signs a max offer sheet with another team. I know that is extremely unlikely, but do you match?

No. That's too much.

I believe there's only 4 teams that could potentially offer Payton the Max:

• Hawks (Schroder / draft pick)
• Bulls (Dunn / draft pick)
• Mavs (Smith / draft pick)
• Lakers (Ball / Hart)

All of these teams already have a young PG and (aside from LA) will have a legit chance to draft Donic or Young.

The market for PGs will likely be underwhelming this offseason and I wouldn't be surprised if we can retain Payton for Lou Williams money.

However, in the scenario that someone does overpay drastically for Payton, we always have Knight as a contingency. Sure, he's not my favorite choice, but we're also not desperate to the point where we have to overpay to fill a need.

[MrMiyagi]

Yeah, Ayton is enticing, though what he does against not so great college competition isn't even in the realm of what Doncic has been doing against great competition.

I understand the need thing, but I would hate to pass on the next great thing because of it. I think you have to draft Doncic at 1 no question regardless of the type of player you need. My gut tells me McD might take Ayton ahead of him though based on most of his picks kind of being for need and current roster makeup.

I think you're thinking about it the wrong way, they're both the next great thing. They just play different positions.

If AZ struggles so much to win with him, when, even not counting him, they have more talent than 95% of the teams they play, why would he be a huge difference maker for the Suns, when we have less talent than the vast majority of the teams we play?

Bigs are usually able to dominate more at the college level than the pros too because it's not quite like the pro style of spread offense. All the dominant bigs in the nba can shot the 3 and block shots, or are premier shot blockers/defenders if they don't hit the 3. Ayton does look like he might eventually become a good 3 pt shooter and is ok at blocking shots.

Don't get me wrong, it would be very nice to have him....I'm just not sure his impact would be quite as big. Though he could end up like Towns even with the bad defense who suddenly improves in that area in year 3, but didn't make a huge impact on winning until they got Butler. I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. I'll be stoked if we get him.....just not sure he is a clear winner like Doncic. Guys like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Duncan, Towns, Cousins and Davis all led their teams to championships in college or very deep in the tourney as top seeds. We will see if Ayton does.

Bird (who Doncic's upside is compared to) led a school you never hear of with not so great players to the championship to lose to Magic's good Mich St team.

AZ struggles when they don't get him the ball. One thing that isn't talked about much is the Cats are one of the worst passing teams Sean Miller has had (in terms of passing skill not assist or amount of passes - no one throws good entry passes). When he gets the ball, AZ is pretty damn unstoppable.

Same goes defensively. We don't have the defenders a Michigan State has. JJJ gets block opportunities because his teammates rotate as they should.

I don't know how many Cats games you've gotten to watch this season, but next time, really track when we do well and when we struggle throughout a game and you'll see Ayton's impact.

[thamadkant]

Would be some interesting lineups with Doncic. If we retain Payton, Elf-Booker-Doncic-JJ-Bender lineup would have 5 guys who can push the ball down the court after a defensive rebound.

Then still get smashed by teams like Rockets and Warriors because they love to run as well and they have more fire power and defense as well... Their defense is best suited against other fast tempo teams... Hence you need to abuse their weakness... Inside scorer to dominate Their weakest spot... The post.

[bwgood77]

Another thing to consider is, say we draft 3rd and Ayton and Doncic are off the board, or 4th and those two and Bagley are off the board.

Say we pass on Young and take one of the other guys and then Payton signs a max offer sheet with another team. I know that is extremely unlikely, but do you match?

No. That's too much.

I believe there's only 4 teams that could potentially offer Payton the Max:

• Hawks (Schroder / draft pick)
• Bulls (Dunn / draft pick)
• Mavs (Smith / draft pick)
• Lakers (Ball / Hart)

All of these teams already have a young PG and (aside from LA) will have a legit chance to draft Donic or Young.

The market for PGs will likely be underwhelming this offseason and I wouldn't be surprised if we can retain Payton for Lou Williams money.

However, in the scenario that someone does overpay drastically for Payton, we always have Knight as a contingency. Sure, he's not my favorite choice, but we're also not desperate to the point where we have to overpay to fill a need.

Yeah, I know there is next to no chance..it was just a hypothetical that COULD happen. I know no one has space and those that do have point guards and I first said I thought we could keep him for like $7 million a year. I think it's probably a little more than that watching him and listening to him, studying how he's improved every year, works hard, is young, etc.

I'd like to keep him even if it cost more than I thought before. I do find it odd that he has so many Magic haters....but then it's nice he has so many fans as well. You didn't see that TOO much with Knight...even though they were talking near all star when he was in Milwaukee, no Bucks fans liked him. The only ones that came around saying they kind of liked him were a few Pistons fans but that's probably because they drafted him and traded him and Middleton for Brandon Jennings. You are usually always more vested in the players you draft, unless you are a Suns fan. Then there is a good chance you nitpick the picks, rookies and sophomores to death for their errors during development.

[Foliohattu]

Then still get smashed by teams like Rockets and Warriors because they love to run as well and they have more fire power and defense as well... Their defense is best suited against other fast tempo teams... Hence you need to abuse their weakness... Inside scorer to dominate Their weakest spot... The post.

Don't think we should try build our team to match up against current contenders, when Booker etc are ready to hit their prime, who knows what those teams will be like. Just draft the best prospect and I think it's Doncic rather convincingly. Just thought some of those lineups would be quite interesting in the meantime.
If we end up drafting Ayton, I would be thrilled, as long as we don't pick him over Luka. If we get Ayton with the 2nd pick, nice.

[bwgood77]

I think you're thinking about it the wrong way, they're both the next great thing. They just play different positions.

If AZ struggles so much to win with him, when, even not counting him, they have more talent than 95% of the teams they play, why would he be a huge difference maker for the Suns, when we have less talent than the vast majority of the teams we play?

Bigs are usually able to dominate more at the college level than the pros too because it's not quite like the pro style of spread offense. All the dominant bigs in the nba can shot the 3 and block shots, or are premier shot blockers/defenders if they don't hit the 3. Ayton does look like he might eventually become a good 3 pt shooter and is ok at blocking shots.

Don't get me wrong, it would be very nice to have him....I'm just not sure his impact would be quite as big. Though he could end up like Towns even with the bad defense who suddenly improves in that area in year 3, but didn't make a huge impact on winning until they got Butler. I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. I'll be stoked if we get him.....just not sure he is a clear winner like Doncic. Guys like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Duncan, Towns, Cousins and Davis all led their teams to championships in college or very deep in the tourney as top seeds. We will see if Ayton does.

Bird (who Doncic's upside is compared to) led a school you never hear of with not so great players to the championship to lose to Magic's good Mich St team.

AZ struggles when they don't get him the ball. One thing that isn't talked about much is the Cats are one of the worst passing teams Sean Miller has had (in terms of passing skill not assist or amount of passes - no one throws good entry passes). When he gets the ball, AZ is pretty damn unstoppable.

Same goes defensively. We don't have the defenders a Michigan State has. JJJ gets block opportunities because his teammates rotate as they should.

I don't know how many Cats games you've gotten to watch this season, but next time, really track when we do well and when we struggle throughout a game and you'll see Ayton's impact.

I do think if he played more with a good spread offense so he was the only true big inside where it was harder to draw help defenders, and he didn't have a Ulis sized PG that has a harder time getting him the ball, he would be even better.

But offense isn't the problem. Even with those problems, he is awesome offensively...no problems there and may end up a good 3 pt shooter.

It's defense. If he is a 7 footer in the middle and can't defend or really alter a lot of shots with intensity and effort that's the primary concern.

[MrMiyagi]

If AZ struggles so much to win with him, when, even not counting him, they have more talent than 95% of the teams they play, why would he be a huge difference maker for the Suns, when we have less talent than the vast majority of the teams we play?

Bigs are usually able to dominate more at the college level than the pros too because it's not quite like the pro style of spread offense. All the dominant bigs in the nba can shot the 3 and block shots, or are premier shot blockers/defenders if they don't hit the 3. Ayton does look like he might eventually become a good 3 pt shooter and is ok at blocking shots.

Don't get me wrong, it would be very nice to have him....I'm just not sure his impact would be quite as big. Though he could end up like Towns even with the bad defense who suddenly improves in that area in year 3, but didn't make a huge impact on winning until they got Butler. I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. I'll be stoked if we get him.....just not sure he is a clear winner like Doncic. Guys like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Duncan, Towns, Cousins and Davis all led their teams to championships in college or very deep in the tourney as top seeds. We will see if Ayton does.

Bird (who Doncic's upside is compared to) led a school you never hear of with not so great players to the championship to lose to Magic's good Mich St team.

AZ struggles when they don't get him the ball. One thing that isn't talked about much is the Cats are one of the worst passing teams Sean Miller has had (in terms of passing skill not assist or amount of passes - no one throws good entry passes). When he gets the ball, AZ is pretty damn unstoppable.

Same goes defensively. We don't have the defenders a Michigan State has. JJJ gets block opportunities because his teammates rotate as they should.

I don't know how many Cats games you've gotten to watch this season, but next time, really track when we do well and when we struggle throughout a game and you'll see Ayton's impact.

I do think if he played more with a good spread offense so he was the only true big inside where it was harder to draw help defenders, and he didn't have a Ulis sized PG that has a harder time getting him the ball, he would be even better.

But offense isn't the problem. Even with those problems, he is awesome offensively...no problems there and may end up a good 3 pt shooter.

It's defense. If he is a 7 footer in the middle and can't defend or really alter a lot of shots with intensity and effort that's the primary concern.

And I think if he were playing with better defensive players, like JJJ gets to at Michigan State, we wouldn't even be talking about "defensive troubles".

[LukasBMW]

Ayton looks strong but he doesn't look super athletic to me.

I mean, he would DESTROY Alex Len, but could he keep up with an Embiid or Turner and chase them around the 3 point line?

He's using his size to bully smaller college players, but would he be as effective against Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, or Drummond?

[kennydorglas]

Ayton is pushing to be a 4 in the NBA.
That'd definitely crash a lot of his appeal

[AtheJ415]

Ayton is pushing to be a 4 in the NBA.
That'd definitely crash a lot of his appeal

He should be a 5 unless his NBA 3 point shooting really develops. Wouldn't kill it for us bc of Bender's success at the 5.

That said, if we cannot combine assets for an established star, I could see us consolidating to get back in around 7. Then we'd likely draft Doncic or Young with our pick knowing 1 of the bigs would be there at 7.

Say Chriss and a package of picks for Bamba.

[thamadkant]

Ayton looks strong but he doesn't look super athletic to me.

I mean, he would DESTROY Alex Len, but could he keep up with an Embiid or Turner and chase them around the 3 point line?

He's using his size to bully smaller college players, but would he be as effective against Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, or Drummond?

he's a 7'1 dude with 7'5 wingspan... and apparently 40 inch vertical... he could dunk the ball with his mouth.

[thamadkant]

Ayton is pushing to be a 4 in the NBA.
That'd definitely crash a lot of his appeal

He should be a 5 unless his NBA 3 point shooting really develops. Wouldn't kill it for us bc of Bender's success at the 5.

That said, if we cannot combine assets for an established star, I could see us consolidating to get back in around 7. Then we'd likely draft Doncic or Young with our pick knowing 1 of the bigs would be there at 7.

Say Chriss and a package of picks for Bamba.

who would trade their top 10 pick for Chriss and other picks?

76ers could trade their pick for more established players as they're competing for the playoffs... maybe 76ers pick for Bucks/Heat pick and Troy Daniels or something.... maybe Chriss to sweeten it.... assuming Suns want someone at that position, but you still have an issue of Suns having too many players needing minutes to develop.

Ideally, Suns should move all in for a top 1 pick...

but if they opt for 2 more rookies, they need to sign a couple of veterans who will push the team to compete.

[thamadkant]

If Suns can have an early second rounder... I'd consider Ajdin Penava. Could be the "Jokic" of this draft. Used to be a PG apparently, but now a PF/C... so atleast he can dribble and have skills.

Watch on YouTube

[proedros1908]

Watch on YouTube

He looks like a young KP and it's 18 years old..i like him

[Mjee]

Trae young draft stock is falling after Sooners lose again !!! Mo Bamba looked great. Sometimes he’s a little passive offensively but I think that has a lot to do with the Texas system. Overall Bamba could be something very special with his almost 10’ wingspan.

Michigan St and JJJ look like garbage so far at the half !

Mo Bamba > JJJ every day of the week for the Suns

[sunsbum]

Can someone explain to me a very small detail people are leaving out about JJJ. How the **** is this team going to rebound the basketball with Bender/JJJ/Jackson front court? Between Bender, Chriss and JJJ we would easily have the worst rebounding trio of "bigs" in the NBA.

[Djedefre]

Young hit the wall behind the arc lately, but he's still solid. He's finding teammates, finishing at the rim, drawing fouls and hitting ft's at great % He's just not outta this world with his shooting from all over the court like earlier in the season.

Yeah, Bamba is definitely too passive on offense. Not so good with reading things on the court, too. Comparing him with Jackson, i don't think that any of them has a clear advantage. Both are prototypical boom or bust picks.

[Saberestar]

Can someone explain to me a very small detail people are leaving out about JJJ. How the **** is this team going to rebound the basketball with Bender/JJJ/Jackson front court? Between Bender, Chriss and JJJ we would easily have the worst rebounding trio of "bigs" in the NBA.

I do not like him as a Top #5 pick. He does not have a post up game, he can not create his own shot and he does not move/run smoothly.

[Mjee]

The only way IMO that Bamba becomes a bust is if he gets hurt and his career is derailed.

He can immediately start on this suns team and average over 10 rebounds and a couple blocks per game. His offense will develop over time. If a GM drafts him they know exactly what they are getting. A 7 footer with a wingspan of 9’5’’ who can rebound at a high rate and block shots. If your expecting that I don’t see how he can be a bust.

On a side note I still like Ayton, bagley, and porter before him