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Political Roundtable Part XVIII

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1221 » by verbal8 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:22 pm

closg00 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Pointgod wrote:Okay where are all the dingbats that said Russia was a hoax? Russia is a nothingburger, Russia is a distraction derp derp derp. So much for the Russia is our friend narrative coming from right wing circles. So we really going to ignore Manafort, Popadoplous, Gates, Flynn! Now we have actual crimes and indictments. Keep sticking your head in the sand.

MAGA- Mueller Ain’t Going Away!

Happy indictment day everybody!

Nobody said Russia was a hoax. They said Trump colluding with Russia was a hoax. Russia has probably been doing stuff like this since 1952. As have we. Do you not think that the CIA doesn't stage protests in other countries to try and disrupt their political leadership?

Read on Twitter

Seems like there is a Trump tweet for everything.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1222 » by verbal8 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:30 pm

Since Trump is against gun control how about making his properties gun possession "sanctuaries"? The rest of the country can have reasonable gun control laws.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1223 » by cammac » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:47 pm

Who can communicate the Trump message well Sanders is the best of a bad lot.
I just want to take a moment to stress the underlying importance of my recent article about the problem that Sara Huckabee Sanders apparent rebellion of being the Ms Fix-It for every nightmare the White House gets itself into can bring to both this White House, and even the Tangerine Twitter Tantrum himself.


But, if Sanders stops covering for everybody but the Orangutan in Chief, the Trump administration is toast. The whole problem is that they can't actually send anybody other than Sanders out in front of the cameras without having to order Maalox by the tractor trailer full, especially not the kind of morons who create the kind of problems she has to whitewash over


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/15/1741747/-Sarah-Huckabee-Sanders-can-be-more-trouble-than-you-think
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1224 » by cammac » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:49 pm

There's always a pivot away from talking about guns. The pivot is pushed by the NRA, broadcast by right-wing media, and parroted by my conservative friends as though it was their opinion before they were told to say it by Fox News. It used to be "Mental Health." But that is hard for the NRA since the Republicans they bribe every election cut mental health funding and repealed an Obama rule so that it would be easier for the mentally ill to get guns. Plus, the mentally ill commit fewer gun crimes than those who are undiagnosed among us, so that was always a red herring anyway. It stigmatizes mental illness to distract from an unrelated problem, and people are starting to realize that's even worse than "thoughts and prayers."


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/16/1742194/-Open-Letter-From-A-Teacher-Who-May-Take-A-Bullet-For-Your-Child
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1225 » by GhostofChenier » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:51 pm

omg lol

adultz r like children 2day.

Like Apple fanboi fights haaaaaaa
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1226 » by cammac » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:55 pm

The young man is articulate in the face of a tragedy wish Republicans were.

ANDERSON: So for those who are saying thoughts and prayers and this is not the type to talk about guns?

KASKY: This is the time to talk about guns. Thoughts and prayers are appreciated and everybody who's thinking about us and sending support, we do hear you and we appreciate you and we thank you. But there's much more that can be done, much more that needs to be done and much more that people like [Sen.] Marco Rubio [(R-FL)] and [Florida Governor] Rick Scott are not doing. And it's scary to think that these are the people who are making our laws when our community just took 17 bullets to the heart and it feels like the only people who don't care are the people making the laws.


KASKY: There is a segment of this society that will shrug this off and send their thoughts and prayers but march for hours over a rainbow wedding cake.


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/16/1742109/****
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1227 » by cammac » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:03 pm

Longer read but lays out Mueller's strategy and shows the stupidity of Nates & SD20s comments.
These are just a few quotes.
First, the indictment makes clear that some Trump campaign workers unwittingly worked with the Russian conspirators advancing this scheme, which is already a disturbing development. It also says that on repeated occasions the indicted individuals conspired with “persons known and unknown to the Grand Jury,” explicitly leaving open the possibility that others were involved.

More to the point, as elaborate as the charged scheme was, it is limited to one particular disinformation operation. The indictment does not even address many of the areas in which knowing cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russia would most likely have occurred if it did occur. For instance, the indictment does not address the hacking of accounts belonging to the Democratic National Committee and others, nor does it address those who participated in the now infamous summer 2016 meeting in Trump Tower, apparently set up to obtain negative information about Hillary Clinton. The steady stream of pleas and indictments we have seen so far makes it only logical to conclude that there is more to come. We don’t know yet where it will all lead, but the trajectory seems to be closer and closer to the Trump campaign.

Adding all of this together, one thing is clear about this week’s developments: They leave the president in substantially more peril. His longstanding efforts to cast doubt on the idea that Russia interfered in the election are in tatters. His campaign now appears to have at least unwittingly furthered the efforts of Russian saboteurs to wreak havoc in our election. And this latest indictment, together with a likely Gates plea, very much leaves the door open to future findings of Trump campaign cooperation with Russian election interference. We all should hope that Mueller is successful in getting to the bottom of this debacle; his track record so far suggests he will.


Even among some of Donald Trump’s allies, there is a sense of astonishment at the White House’s handling of Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation. “It’s like no one took down the Gambino family,”Steve Bannon told Chris Whipple in a book adaptation the Hive published this week. “Mueller’s doing a roll-up just like he did with the Gambinos. [Paul] Manafort’s the caporegime, right? And [Rick] Gates is a made man!”

But news of his cooperation should still worry the White House. As he did in the Gotti case, Mueller has moved systematically through the lower ranks of Trumpworld up through the president’s inner circle in his efforts to shake out the truth.

All the while, Mueller is presumably gathering evidence he can leverage higher up the food chain, and potentially against Trump. While Gates may only flip on Manafort, it is entirely possible that Manafort might then be compelled to give up something better


Mark Corallo was one of the president’s defenders—until he became disgusted on ‘a moral and professional level.’ Now, he’s talking to the man looking into Trump’s Russia ties.

Mark Corallo, former spokesperson for President Donald Trump’s legal team, spoke with Special Counsel Bob Mueller earlier this week for over two hours, two people familiar with the matter told The Daily Beast.

The New York Times reported last month that Corallo’s conversation with Mueller would likely involve topics related to potential obstruction of justice.

One moment that might be of particular interest to the special counsel: a now-infamous flight back from the G-20 summit, when Trump and his close aides –– including his daughter Ivanka, Jared Kushner, and Communications Director Hope Hicks –– drafted a deceptive statement regarding Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting with Kremlin-linked Russian nationals. According to the Times, Corallo was in a position to tell Mueller that Hicks once claimed the president’s sons emails about that meeting would “never get out.”


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/17/1742090/-HOLY-FORKING-SHIRTBALLS-That-Was-the-Craziest-Infrastructure-Week-EVER-Saturday-s-Good-News
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1228 » by closg00 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:04 pm

Where did Induveca go? Induveca was big on Russian hacking being a hoax, he disappeared. Has Induveca gone to ground? :lol:
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1229 » by closg00 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:10 pm

cammac wrote:Longer read but lays out Mueller's strategy and shows the stupidity of Nates & SD20s comments.
These are just a few quotes.
First, the indictment makes clear that some Trump campaign workers unwittingly worked with the Russian conspirators advancing this scheme, which is already a disturbing development. It also says that on repeated occasions the indicted individuals conspired with “persons known and unknown to the Grand Jury,” explicitly leaving open the possibility that others were involved.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/17/1742090/-HOLY-FORKING-SHIRTBALLS-That-Was-the-Craziest-Infrastructure-Week-EVER-Saturday-s-Good-News


The best thing about these indictments is that Nunes and right-wing media are effectively neutered. Future attempts at picking up the poor Carter Page narrative are going to look even more foolishly transparent, as really bad deflection.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1230 » by Pointgod » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:20 pm

nate33 wrote:
cammac wrote:Carefully worded by Rosenstein who knows collusion isn't a crime but obstruction of justice is. Plus this is just a teaser of what else will be reveled.


You don't get impeachment for obstruction of justice if there is no collusion in the first place. I repeat: you don't get impeachment for obstruction of justice if there is no collusion in the first place. One more time: you don't get impeachment for obstruction of justice if there is no collusion in the first place.


What the he'll are you talking about? Obstruction of justice is a crime onto itself. It all comes down to intent. This special council investigation would not be going on if Trump didn't fire Comey. If Trump didn't have anything to hide then why fire Comey? Why constantly threaten to fire Rosenstein?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1231 » by cammac » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:30 pm

Its obvious that after being interviewed by Mueller...Steve Bannon basically refuses to testify before the House Intel committee. The reasons are rather obvious!

The Machiavellian plot twists alone here are worth the price of admission. Steve Bannon spends 20 hours blabbering to the FBI, but won't answer a question from the House Intel committee with more than a "no." A panelist on MSNBC yesterday had a perfectly logical reason for this. The House Intel committee is nothing more than an information conduit back to Trump. Right now, Trump thinks Bannon is being a stand up guy, protecting him. But, if Bannon is trying to stick a shiv in the back of Jared Kushner, the last thing he wants is a sniveling little pissant like Devin Nunes scurrying back to the Trumpster and spoiling the surprise.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1232 » by dckingsfan » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:30 pm

closg00 wrote:
Induveca wrote:...

Where did Induveca go? Induveca was big on Russian hacking being a hoax, he disappeared. Has Induveca gone to ground? :lol:

FREE INDUVECA!!!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1233 » by nate33 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:32 pm

Pointgod wrote:
nate33 wrote:
cammac wrote:Carefully worded by Rosenstein who knows collusion isn't a crime but obstruction of justice is. Plus this is just a teaser of what else will be reveled.


You don't get impeachment for obstruction of justice if there is no collusion in the first place. I repeat: you don't get impeachment for obstruction of justice if there is no collusion in the first place. One more time: you don't get impeachment for obstruction of justice if there is no collusion in the first place.


What the he'll are you talking about? Obstruction of justice is a crime onto itself. It all comes down to intent. This special council investigation would not be going on if Trump didn't fire Comey. If Trump didn't have anything to hide then why fire Comey? Why constantly threaten to fire Rosenstein?

Impeachment is a political process, not a legal one. Even if Trump technically committed obstruction of justice, nobody has the authority to indict him on that. You remove Trump by impeaching him, and the public will not stand for impeaching a sitting president for obstruction of justice over a crime that never happened.

And that doesn't even address the fact that Trump IS the executive branch. It is absolutely within his authority to fire people investigating him because by investigating him without probable cause, they, by definition, are not doing their jobs appropriately and deserve to be fired.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1234 » by nate33 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:34 pm

cammac wrote:Its obvious that after being interviewed by Mueller...Steve Bannon basically refuses to testify before the House Intel committee. The reasons are rather obvious!

The Machiavellian plot twists alone here are worth the price of admission. Steve Bannon spends 20 hours blabbering to the FBI, but won't answer a question from the House Intel committee with more than a "no." A panelist on MSNBC yesterday had a perfectly logical reason for this. The House Intel committee is nothing more than an information conduit back to Trump. Right now, Trump thinks Bannon is being a stand up guy, protecting him. But, if Bannon is trying to stick a shiv in the back of Jared Kushner, the last thing he wants is a sniveling little pissant like Devin Nunes scurrying back to the Trumpster and spoiling the surprise.

Yes, the reasons are obvious. He doesn't want to be maneuvered into a perjury trap like Flynn was. (And the Flynn plea agreement, by the way, is going to get overturned because Mueller withheld exculpatory evidence.)
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1235 » by verbal8 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:37 pm

One thing the indictment does is establish an underlying crime. This makes the obstruction of justice angle a danger to those involved.

There are a lot of possible follow-up developments, and we really don't have a enough to do more than than speculate.

One interesting possibility would be if responsibility does stop just short of Trump. It could be his children handled the interactions and kept him just enough in the dark.
Would Republicans view him as an unacceptable liability?
If it is revealed before midterms it could be a huge drag on the Republicans.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1236 » by Pointgod » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:42 pm

nate33 wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
nate33 wrote:
You don't get impeachment for obstruction of justice if there is no collusion in the first place. I repeat: you don't get impeachment for obstruction of justice if there is no collusion in the first place. One more time: you don't get impeachment for obstruction of justice if there is no collusion in the first place.


What the he'll are you talking about? Obstruction of justice is a crime onto itself. It all comes down to intent. This special council investigation would not be going on if Trump didn't fire Comey. If Trump didn't have anything to hide then why fire Comey? Why constantly threaten to fire Rosenstein?

Impeachment is a political process, not a legal one. Even if Trump technically committed obstruction of justice, nobody has the authority to indict him on that. You remove Trump by impeaching him, and the public will not stand for impeaching a sitting president for obstruction of justice over a crime that never happened.

And that doesn't even address the fact that Trump IS the executive branch. It is absolutely within his authority to fire people investigating him because by investigating him without probable cause, they, by definition, are not doing their jobs appropriately and deserve to be fired.


Obstruction of justice is illegal. It doesn't even have to be an investigation of Trump for it to be obstruction. It all goes to intent. If he fired Comey because he was investigating Don Jr or Jared it's still obstruction. You live in a country of laws and you can't pick and choose to ignore laws because it suits your tribalism.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1237 » by cammac » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:16 pm

Actually Mueller made another indictment on Friday with a plea deal!
Update, 5:55pm: Jeremy Lessem, an attorney for Pinedo, issued this statement Friday evening: “Through an online website, Mr. Pinedo sold bank information which allowed individuals to fraudulently verify and establish accounts with online financial institutions. Doing so was a mistake, and Mr. Pinedo has accepted full responsibility for his actions. However, Mr. Pinedo had absolutely no knowledge of the identities and motivations of any of the purchasers of the information he provided. To the extent that Mr. Pinedo’s actions assisted any individuals, including foreign nationals, from interfering in the American presidential election [it] was done completely without his knowledge or understanding. Given the ongoing nature of this investigation, Mr. Pinedo and his counsel will not be making any further comments at this time.”


https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/02/did-an-identity-thief-in-california-help-russia-hack-the-election/
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1238 » by dckingsfan » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:32 pm

What I would really like to see is Mueller seizing Russian assets. It is probably the only way to make them stop.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1239 » by cammac » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:35 pm

Why does Kushner require so much top secret information?

President Trump's son-in-law and senior White House adviser Jared Kushner has reportedly requested more intelligence information than almost every other White House official.


In a memo released Friday, Kelly outlined a series of changes to the clearance process amid the controversy surrounding former staff secretary Rob Porter, who resigned over domestic abuse allegations.

“The American people deserve a White House staff that meets the highest standards and that has been carefully vetted—especially those who work closely with the president or handle sensitive national security information,” Kelly wrote in the memo. “We should — and in the future must — do better.”


http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/374356-kushner-requests-more-intel-info-than-almost-all-white-house-staff
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1240 » by verbal8 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:40 pm

cammac wrote:Why does Kushner require so much top secret information?

President Trump's son-in-law and senior White House adviser Jared Kushner has reportedly requested more intelligence information than almost every other White House official.


In a memo released Friday, Kelly outlined a series of changes to the clearance process amid the controversy surrounding former staff secretary Rob Porter, who resigned over domestic abuse allegations.

“The American people deserve a White House staff that meets the highest standards and that has been carefully vetted—especially those who work closely with the president or handle sensitive national security information,” Kelly wrote in the memo. “We should — and in the future must — do better.”


http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/374356-kushner-requests-more-intel-info-than-almost-all-white-house-staff

Someone needs to be able to read the docs that are more than 10 pages long.

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