Random Be Safe Papis Thoughts; XVIIII

[contract]

I'd rather not give an opportunity to turn school grounds into war zones, especially as a social institution with minors. Many of these veterans aren't trained for crisis on those levels with thousands of civilians at the helm and just as well, many deployed veterans are deployed for medical reasons such as PTSD. What if they misjudge a crisis situation for a simple fight or vice versa? They're trained to kill, not de-escalate... You can try to train them to do otherwise but if you've experienced actual combat, when confronted in a similar situation, it's likely that you'll regress to habits. I don't think anyone should want those guys around civilians in mass hysteria

Not to mention the type of money it would take to employ enough security to secure entire schools across the entire country.

Imo we have a gun problem, not a security issue, and it needs to be addressed. When you can buy an Assault Rifle before you can legally drink alcohol, real questions should arise. Bad guys don't give a chit about laws but we have laws in place to deter crime... Might as well get rid of all laws and accept that people are intrinsically bad

Is it really asking too much to protect our kids like we do everything else of value? I agree that it's insane that an 18 year old kid can go buy and AR-15. That chit does need to change. As for the cost of upgraded security. That's why i mentioned federalizing it and offer proper traning before deployed. We need deterrents at these schools just like every place else. Let's try it see what happens. I'm not opposed to common sense gun laws but I don't think disarming law abiding citizens is the end all be all.

I agree with Panda. Bad guys will get guns no matter what. I rather have my own protection.

They don't get them elsewhere. This is a US problem, and it just so happens that we're swimming in firearms.

[KingDavid]

Is it really asking too much to protect our kids like we do everything else of value? I agree that it's insane that an 18 year old kid can go buy and AR-15. That chit does need to change. As for the cost of upgraded security. That's why i mentioned federalizing it and offer proper traning before deployed. We need deterrents at these schools just like every place else. Let's try it see what happens. I'm not opposed to common sense gun laws but I don't think disarming law abiding citizens is the end all be all.

I agree with Panda. Bad guys will get guns no matter what. I rather have my own protection.

They don't get them elsewhere. This is a US problem, and it just so happens that we're swimming in firearms.

Gom should be able to expand on Brazil about this very point. I don't know of a solid solution. You ban guns, it becomes a monopoly for criminals. Make stricter control laws, but there's never a clear idea and they all lead to slippery slopes.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Dawg...

We protect our court houses, sporting events, airports, politicians, celebrities, and any other places with mass gatherings with armed personnel. Why not our schools which carry the most precious cargo? As a father i want something done and this sounds like a logical solution. This is not a political issue for me. It's a safety issue that needs to be addressed. Bad guys don't give a chit about gun laws and will continue to target soft areas like schools. My suggestion is they federalize school security and at very least have a front line of defense. As of today i'm still able to walk into my child's school without very little resistance and that scares the crap out of me especially considering MSD is a hop skip away. I agree that we need common sense guns laws but we also need common sense security in our schools not just one armed school resource officer for 3,000 kids.

Locking kids up in prisons so they are safe sounds kind of ass backwards. This idiot didn't buy an illegal gun smuggled across the border by MS13 gang members, he went down to the local gun store and bought an assault rifle and an assload of ammo. Contrary to popular belief, most criminals use guns that were purchased legally, or were stolen from someone who purchased them legally.

I don't get this whole idea of added security meaning locking up kids in prisons. Does it feel like a prison when you go to a basketball game and every major entry point has staffed security wanding you down? Is anybody worried about kids feelings when they have to get screened at an airport? Keep leaving schools as soft targets and this will keep on happening. The 2nd amendement is not going anywhere so we can keep on debating for more gun control or we can move forward in trying to deter something like this from happening again. This is not the old times when crazies even respected the sanctity of children in schools. It's now become the in thing for these chit heads. I do agree that we need common sense gun reform but we also have to stop being naive that this will end school shootings if we continue to leave these kids as sitting ducks.

[Bishop45]

Schools would need a staple of security, like prisons, to secure the amount of students in such large spaces. It would be crazy expensive and need constant regulation... Like prisons. Adding security also doesn't eliminate the threat of mass shootings, it just militarizes school grounds. Doesn't assist the actual problem, more guns in hostile environments usually lead to more bodies, it isn't a sensible solution. How do we address shootings like the Pulse night club or Las Vegas? Give guns to more civilians?

[JaysRule25]

The problem with banning guns in the States is that they're already too widely proliferated. Recent estimates show that there are 102 guns per 100 residents in the US. That's 330 million+ guns currently in circulation already.

You come out tomorrow and ban guns. What happens? The law-abiding citizens turn in their guns. But are the criminals and the gangs going to do the same? No way. And as long as those groups have possession of guns, they're always going to be available for purchase on the black market by any individual planning out a mass shooting or other crime. If you think gun stores don't care enough about who they sell guns to, the black market vendors will care even less.

So, at the end of the day, the only people who're being negatively impacted by a blanket gun ban would be the people who weren't planning on committing crimes with them anyway. And you're taking away one of their sources of protection.

Also, the economic ramifications would be huge. The arms industry is a huge part of the American economy and gun sales are worth billions. What happens to those thousands of jobs and incomes lost in the event of a gun ban? Do you have an alternate employment option for those workers?

It's worth noting that gun ownership is also fairly big in Canada (12 million+ guns in circulation for a population of 35 million). But gun homicide rates are much lower. Canada has much tighter regulations on semi-automatics and high magazine capacity, along with tougher background checks and licensing for firearm buyers. Maybe that needs to be a start in the US.

I hope you guys don't mind me jumping into this discussion as an outsider. But, I feel like following a tragedy like this, people are quick to get emotional and bring up gun bans, without actually thinking about how they'd implement it and the impact it'd cause.

[Bishop45]

^Not at all Jay, love to hear outside input. Gun control doesn't mean banning guns, just putting restrictions on the open regulation... To which I think everyone should agree is out of control

Much needed step that should be taken before anything else

[MettaWorldPanda]

The problem with banning guns in the States is that they're already too widely proliferated. Recent estimates show that there are 102 guns per 100 residents in the US. That's 330 million+ guns currently in circulation already.

You come out tomorrow and ban guns. What happens? The law-abiding citizens turn in their guns. But are the criminals and the gangs going to do the same? No way. And as long as those groups have possession of guns, they're always going to be available for purchase on the black market by any individual planning out a mass shooting or other crime. If you think gun stores don't care enough about who they sell guns to, the black market vendors will care even less.

So, at the end of the day, the only people who're being negatively impacted by a blanket gun ban would be the people who weren't planning on committing crimes with them anyway. And you're taking away one of their sources of protection.

Also, the economic ramifications would be huge. The arms industry is a huge part of the American economy and gun sales are worth billions. What happens to those thousands of jobs and incomes lost in the event of a gun ban? Do you have an alternate employment option for those workers?

It's worth noting that gun ownership is also fairly big in Canada (12 million+ guns in circulation for a population of 35 million). But gun homicide rates are much lower. Canada has much tighter regulations on semi-automatics and high magazine capacity, along with tougher background checks and licensing for firearm buyers. Maybe that needs to be a start in the US.

I hope you guys don't mind me jumping into this discussion as an outsider. But, I feel like following a tragedy like this, people are quick to get emotional and bring up gun bans, without actually thinking about how they'd implement it and the impact it'd cause.

Thanks for jumping in Jay. I appreciate it. Fantastic post and i share your exact thoughts. Keeping schools the way they are and keep blabbering about gun banning is not going to help anything. Look at Sandy Hook today and they have placed numerous security measures to avoid the situation as best as possible from happening again. They placed guard gate and CCTV monitoring all over the entire campus. We have to deter the evil as best as we can and have the tools to do it. It might not be perfect but even if it gets someone to think twice we've accomplished something. I dont even know how both sides cant agree that more protection and deterrence is needed for schools. It's almost like hunger games going to school these days.

[MettaWorldPanda]

^Not at all Jay, love to hear outside input. Gun control doesn't mean banning guns, just putting restrictions on the open regulation... To which I think everyone should agree is out of control

Much needed step that should be taken before anything else

Absolutely Bish we do need tighter restrictions but we also need to protect our schools. This isn't an isolated incident anymore. Are the feelings and cost a greater issue then loss of life? How can anyone live with themselves for not voting for more security and deterrence at schools. We need to be able to meet in the middle on this. I would give up whatever i received in this recent tax cut in order for more protection in schools. Maybe this issue hits closer to home for me as a parent who sends a kid to school in ground zero of what just took place but I'm hoping common sense will prevail with this issue in the end.

[contract]

We protect our court houses, sporting events, airports, politicians, celebrities, and any other places with mass gatherings with armed personnel. Why not our schools which carry the most precious cargo? As a father i want something done and this sounds like a logical solution. This is not a political issue for me. It's a safety issue that needs to be addressed. Bad guys don't give a chit about gun laws and will continue to target soft areas like schools. My suggestion is they federalize school security and at very least have a front line of defense. As of today i'm still able to walk into my child's school without very little resistance and that scares the crap out of me especially considering MSD is a hop skip away. I agree that we need common sense guns laws but we also need common sense security in our schools not just one armed school resource officer for 3,000 kids.

Locking kids up in prisons so they are safe sounds kind of ass backwards. This idiot didn't buy an illegal gun smuggled across the border by MS13 gang members, he went down to the local gun store and bought an assault rifle and an assload of ammo. Contrary to popular belief, most criminals use guns that were purchased legally, or were stolen from someone who purchased them legally.

I don't get this whole idea of added security meaning locking up kids in prisons. Does it feel like a prison when you go to a basketball game and every major entry point has staffed security wanding you down? Is anybody worried about kids feelings when they have to get screened at an airport? Keep leaving schools as soft targets and this will keep on happening. The 2nd amendement is not going anywhere so we can keep on debating for more gun control or we can move forward in trying to deter something like this from happening again. This is not the old times when crazies even respected the sanctity of children in schools. It's now become the in thing for these chit heads. I do agree that we need common sense gun reform but we also have to stop being naive that this will end school shootings if we continue to leave these kids as sitting ducks.

Yes it would. It would stop it cold. But if you don't want to ban guns, there are still things that can be done to limit the carnage. The public does not need military style weapons. When the 2nd amendment was adopted, "arms" had to be reloaded between every shot. Somewhere between there and here there is a reasonable happy medium.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Locking kids up in prisons so they are safe sounds kind of ass backwards. This idiot didn't buy an illegal gun smuggled across the border by MS13 gang members, he went down to the local gun store and bought an assault rifle and an assload of ammo. Contrary to popular belief, most criminals use guns that were purchased legally, or were stolen from someone who purchased them legally.

I don't get this whole idea of added security meaning locking up kids in prisons. Does it feel like a prison when you go to a basketball game and every major entry point has staffed security wanding you down? Is anybody worried about kids feelings when they have to get screened at an airport? Keep leaving schools as soft targets and this will keep on happening. The 2nd amendement is not going anywhere so we can keep on debating for more gun control or we can move forward in trying to deter something like this from happening again. This is not the old times when crazies even respected the sanctity of children in schools. It's now become the in thing for these chit heads. I do agree that we need common sense gun reform but we also have to stop being naive that this will end school shootings if we continue to leave these kids as sitting ducks.

Yes it would. It would stop it cold. But if you don't want to ban guns, there are still things that can be done to limit the carnage. The public does not need military style weapons. When the 2nd amendment was adopted, "arms" had to be reloaded between every shot. Somewhere between there and here there is a reasonable happy medium.

The happy medium can be found but we also need to bring up the discussion of keeping schools safe instead of just focusing on banning guns which will never happen in our life time. You can profile the AR-15 all you want but the same damage can be accomplished with a glock 26 with a 33 round magazine attached to it. The AR-15 is the weapon of choice for these animals because the media glorifies the phuck out of it and it's image. You ban the AR-15 you need to ban all guns which once again will never happen. Should you be 21 in order to buy a rifle like you need to buy a handgun? Absolutely no doubt about it. I would even consider raising the age to 25. You can have magazine amount restrictions but if you are skilled enough you can change magazines in a matter of seconds.

[contract]

The problem with banning guns in the States is that they're already too widely proliferated. Recent estimates show that there are 102 guns per 100 residents in the US. That's 330 million+ guns currently in circulation already.

You come out tomorrow and ban guns. What happens? The law-abiding citizens turn in their guns. But are the criminals and the gangs going to do the same? No way. And as long as those groups have possession of guns, they're always going to be available for purchase on the black market by any individual planning out a mass shooting or other crime. If you think gun stores don't care enough about who they sell guns to, the black market vendors will care even less.

So, at the end of the day, the only people who're being negatively impacted by a blanket gun ban would be the people who weren't planning on committing crimes with them anyway. And you're taking away one of their sources of protection.

Also, the economic ramifications would be huge. The arms industry is a huge part of the American economy and gun sales are worth billions. What happens to those thousands of jobs and incomes lost in the event of a gun ban? Do you have an alternate employment option for those workers?

It's worth noting that gun ownership is also fairly big in Canada (12 million+ guns in circulation for a population of 35 million). But gun homicide rates are much lower. Canada has much tighter regulations on semi-automatics and high magazine capacity, along with tougher background checks and licensing for firearm buyers. Maybe that needs to be a start in the US.

I hope you guys don't mind me jumping into this discussion as an outsider. But, I feel like following a tragedy like this, people are quick to get emotional and bring up gun bans, without actually thinking about how they'd implement it and the impact it'd cause.

I guess by that same logic we should legalize RPGs, because if they are outlawed then only the criminals will have them.

[DayofMourning]

Sensitive subject, but lots of interesting insight by you guys.

Another issue is that this kid goes on a shooting spree but now is going to siphon tax dollars for his trial, handling and prison expense. A compounded problem isn't it?

[Bishop45]

^Not at all Jay, love to hear outside input. Gun control doesn't mean banning guns, just putting restrictions on the open regulation... To which I think everyone should agree is out of control

Much needed step that should be taken before anything else

Absolutely Bish we do need tighter restrictions but we also need to protect our schools. This isn't an isolated incident anymore. Are the feelings and cost a greater issue then loss of life? How can anyone live with themselves for not voting for more security and deterrence at schools. We need to be able to meet in the middle on this. I would give up whatever i received in this recent tax cut in order for more protection in schools. Maybe this issue hits closer to home for me as a parent who sends a kid to school in ground zero of what just took place but I'm hoping common sense will prevail with this issue in the end.

More security is definitely needed, I think we've been talking about two different things. I scoffed at the notion of employing armed veterans on school campus because I think it's dangerous and impractical, not that I don't think more security isn't needed. You're speaking specifically about the boundaries of school and I'm talking about mass shootings in general. I simply don't think security's enough to address the broader issue

We agree, I just don't think security alone's going to get us out of the clear

[MettaWorldPanda]

Sensitive subject, but lots of interesting insight by you guys.

Another issue is that this kid goes on a shooting spree but now is going to siphon tax dollars for his trial, handling and prison expense. A compounded problem isn't it?

Makes me sick to my stomach. On top of that he'll never get to experience general pop

[Bishop45]

Sensitive subject, but lots of interesting insight by you guys.

Another issue is that this kid goes on a shooting spree but now is going to siphon tax dollars for his trial, handling and prison expense. A compounded problem isn't it?

Unfortunate but not much we can do to oppose that

[contract]

I don't get this whole idea of added security meaning locking up kids in prisons. Does it feel like a prison when you go to a basketball game and every major entry point has staffed security wanding you down? Is anybody worried about kids feelings when they have to get screened at an airport? Keep leaving schools as soft targets and this will keep on happening. The 2nd amendement is not going anywhere so we can keep on debating for more gun control or we can move forward in trying to deter something like this from happening again. This is not the old times when crazies even respected the sanctity of children in schools. It's now become the in thing for these chit heads. I do agree that we need common sense gun reform but we also have to stop being naive that this will end school shootings if we continue to leave these kids as sitting ducks.

Yes it would. It would stop it cold. But if you don't want to ban guns, there are still things that can be done to limit the carnage. The public does not need military style weapons. When the 2nd amendment was adopted, "arms" had to be reloaded between every shot. Somewhere between there and here there is a reasonable happy medium.

The happy medium can be found but we also need to bring up the discussion of keeping schools safe instead of just focusing on banning guns which will never happen in our life time. You can profile the AR-15 all you want but the same damage can be accomplished with a glock 26 with a 33 round magazine attached to it. The AR-15 is the weapon of choice for these animals because the media glorifies the phuck out of it and it's image. You ban the AR-15 you need to ban all guns which once again will never happen. Should you be 21 in order to buy a rifle like you need to buy a handgun? Absolutely no doubt about it. I would even consider raising the age to 25. You can have magazine amount restrictions but if you are skilled enough you can change magazines in a matter of seconds.

Absent guns, schools are pretty damn safe. And no, it's not impossible to outlaw guns. Make simple possession of a firearm a felony punishable by life in prison, and combine that with a gun buyback program, and watch how quickly all those firearms disappear.

But again, there is a happy medium. At least there is for most people.

[MettaWorldPanda]

^Not at all Jay, love to hear outside input. Gun control doesn't mean banning guns, just putting restrictions on the open regulation... To which I think everyone should agree is out of control

Much needed step that should be taken before anything else

Absolutely Bish we do need tighter restrictions but we also need to protect our schools. This isn't an isolated incident anymore. Are the feelings and cost a greater issue then loss of life? How can anyone live with themselves for not voting for more security and deterrence at schools. We need to be able to meet in the middle on this. I would give up whatever i received in this recent tax cut in order for more protection in schools. Maybe this issue hits closer to home for me as a parent who sends a kid to school in ground zero of what just took place but I'm hoping common sense will prevail with this issue in the end.

More security is definitely needed, I think we've been talking about two different things. I scoffed at the notion of employing armed veterans on school campus because I think it's dangerous and impractical, not that I don't think more security isn't needed. You're speaking specifically about the boundaries of school and I'm talking about mass shootings in general. I simply don't think security's enough to address the broader issue

We agree, I just don't think security alone's going to get us out of the clear

Glad we had the discussion Bish. Nothing wrong with talking out both points of view and trying to meet in the middle. Wish our chitty politicians could do the same.

[DayofMourning]

Sensitive subject, but lots of interesting insight by you guys.

Another issue is that this kid goes on a shooting spree but now is going to siphon tax dollars for his trial, handling and prison expense. A compounded problem isn't it?

Makes me sick to my stomach. On top of that he'll never get to experience general pop

That too. Said demons instructed him. Might need to face some real ones so the next guy takes a second to think about the consequences.

[DayofMourning]

Sensitive subject, but lots of interesting insight by you guys.

Another issue is that this kid goes on a shooting spree but now is going to siphon tax dollars for his trial, handling and prison expense. A compounded problem isn't it?

Unfortunate but not much we can do to oppose that

Why do you think so? I'd just drop him in the middle of the ocean.

[Bishop45]

Not to cipher this into my failed politics thrd but good to see a sherriff make a stance, although a bluffed one maybe. This yr in politics is going to be a mess

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