Last 25 Games

[kingjawn100]

Just a reminder...these last 25 games are complete fools gold in terms of how we look at the guys on our roster. The kings will play teams trying their hardest to tank. The Kings will also play teams that have nothing to play for that will be resting their stars and/or simply not playing hard. Last year in the stretch run of the season Buddy and Skal looked like future all-stars and PapaG looked like he could turn into a decent NBA big. None of those things seem very likely when going against real competition when teams are playing for something.

I fully expect guys like Fox, Jackson, Mason and WCS to pick up their production towards the end of the year but i'm really going into next year judging them on everything i've seen to this point, as opposed to what might happen in these last 25 games. As management and as fans of a bad team, you can fall into the trap of thinking your team is better than what it really is based on meaningless games at the end of the year.

I for one hope we go into the draft and free agency thinking that everyone except Bogi, Fox and Willie are expendable and that we are ways away from competing for a playoff berth. Whoever we draft needs to have home run potential, not someone to fill a need. And honestly if a great player falls into our lap at any position (maybe save point guard) i would be quick to grab him as i'm not sold on anyone from the current roster being a long term option as a starter on a title contending team (Fox, Bogi, Buddy,WCS would be a terrific bench for a title contender). Gotta rebuild realistically.

[sacking123]

While it might be fools gold, the most important thing for the Kings is for the young players to get confidence, that will have a massive effect on their off seasons. Look at our roster and how many of the young guys are really confident?
Fox has spoken about getting confidence to do certain things on the court and I believe Jackson, WCS and Skal are all guys as well that aren’t confident. The only ones that are, Bogi, Buddy and Mason.
So while it might be a little meaningless it’s a great chance for the guys that need confidence to get it. If they head into the off season believing in their game then the sky is the limit with this group.


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[SacKingZZZ]

I fully expect nothing to change in regards to the rotation, so there.

[blind prophet]

ZZZ nailed it.

As much as I'd like to lose out, our veteran warriors will put us like 6-7th in pick standings, account for some bs, will pick 8th maybe 9th.

[blind prophet]

When we do end up picking 8th or 9th, all you anti tankers, I hope you remember all the wins Randolph, Temple, Carter, KK gave you for several years, as our continued existence of meaninglessness goes on for several more years.

[benchmobbin02]

When we do end up picking 8th or 9th, all you anti tankers, I hope you remember all the wins Randolph, Temple, Carter, KK gave you for several years, as our continued existence of meaninglessness goes on for several more years.

I may have missed it but I don't think there any anti tanker around here...

[kalenclayton]

When we do end up picking 8th or 9th, all you anti tankers, I hope you remember all the wins Randolph, Temple, Carter, KK gave you for several years, as our continued existence of meaninglessness goes on for several more years.

I may have missed it but I don't think there any anti tanker around here...

Yeah I don’t think I’ve seen them. Sure, we all want to win but I think we all understand that you have to lay the groundwork. This season is groundwork.

[SacKingZZZ]

When we do end up picking 8th or 9th, all you anti tankers, I hope you remember all the wins Randolph, Temple, Carter, KK gave you for several years, as our continued existence of meaninglessness goes on for several more years.

Then again, who knows, maybe they know exactly what they're doing considering the majority of the Kings able bodied young talent might being giving the team more wins to deal with in the end.

[enderwilson]

When we do end up picking 8th or 9th, all you anti tankers, I hope you remember all the wins Randolph, Temple, Carter, KK gave you for several years, as our continued existence of meaninglessness goes on for several more years.

I may have missed it but I don't think there any anti tanker around here...

I've never been a fan of the tank. The thread mentioned the last 25 games as being 'fool's gold'. I feel much the same about relying on where you pick in the draft to turn a franchise's fortunes around.

[benchmobbin02]

When we do end up picking 8th or 9th, all you anti tankers, I hope you remember all the wins Randolph, Temple, Carter, KK gave you for several years, as our continued existence of meaninglessness goes on for several more years.

Then again, who knows, maybe they know exactly what they're doing considering the majority of the Kings able bodied young talent might being giving the team more wins to deal with in the end.

A double edged sword cuts both ways.

[kingjawn100]

When we do end up picking 8th or 9th, all you anti tankers, I hope you remember all the wins Randolph, Temple, Carter, KK gave you for several years, as our continued existence of meaninglessness goes on for several more years.

I may have missed it but I don't think there any anti tanker around here...

I've never been a fan of the tank. The thread mentioned the last 25 games as being 'fool's gold'. I feel much the same about relying on where you pick in the draft to turn a franchise's fortunes around.

True, but the anti tankers must remember...talented free agents don’t want to come play in Sacramento (its probably the least desired destination in the entire league). You can’t expect to build a title contender by not tanking, drafting late lottery and signing afterthought/aging free agents each year. George Hill was really the exception and i think he was mostly a credit to scott perry who obviously isnt here anymore.

[benchmobbin02]

I may have missed it but I don't think there any anti tanker around here...

I've never been a fan of the tank. The thread mentioned the last 25 games as being 'fool's gold'. I feel much the same about relying on where you pick in the draft to turn a franchise's fortunes around.

You can’t expect to build a title contender by not tanking, drafting late lottery and signing afterthought/aging free agents each year. George Hill was really the exception and i think he was mostly a credit to scott perry who obviously isnt here anymore.

YR - RD - PICK - Player
2009 1 7 Stephen Curry

2010 1 6 Ekpe Udoh

2011 1 11 Klay Thompson
2011 2 44 Charles Jenkins

2012 1 7 Harrison Barnes
2012 1 30 Festus Ezeli
2012 2 35 Draymond Green

Just sayin...

[sacking123]

I've never been a fan of the tank. The thread mentioned the last 25 games as being 'fool's gold'. I feel much the same about relying on where you pick in the draft to turn a franchise's fortunes around.

You can’t expect to build a title contender by not tanking, drafting late lottery and signing afterthought/aging free agents each year. George Hill was really the exception and i think he was mostly a credit to scott perry who obviously isnt here anymore.

YR - RD - PICK - Player
2009 1 7 Stephen Curry

2010 1 6 Ekpe Udoh

2011 1 11 Klay Thompson
2011 2 44 Charles Jenkins

2012 1 7 Harrison Barnes
2012 1 30 Festus Ezeli
2012 2 35 Draymond Green

Just sayin...

To be fair Steph isn’t late lottery, nor is Udoh or Barnes.
If Steph isn’t there no way they become a really good team let alone a great team as they don’t get Durant either.
If you’re meaning they are drafting around the same as the Kings then yeah that’s correct


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[benchmobbin02]

You can’t expect to build a title contender by not tanking, drafting late lottery and signing afterthought/aging free agents each year. George Hill was really the exception and i think he was mostly a credit to scott perry who obviously isnt here anymore.

YR - RD - PICK - Player
2009 1 7 Stephen Curry

2010 1 6 Ekpe Udoh

2011 1 11 Klay Thompson
2011 2 44 Charles Jenkins

2012 1 7 Harrison Barnes
2012 1 30 Festus Ezeli
2012 2 35 Draymond Green

Just sayin...

To be fair Steph isn’t late lottery, nor is Udoh or Barnes.
If Steph isn’t there no way they become a really good team let alone a great team as they don’t get Durant either.
If you’re meaning they are drafting around the same as the Kings then yeah that’s correct


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Bingo!

5-9. The Kings sweet spot.

[sacking123]

YR - RD - PICK - Player
2009 1 7 Stephen Curry

2010 1 6 Ekpe Udoh

2011 1 11 Klay Thompson
2011 2 44 Charles Jenkins

2012 1 7 Harrison Barnes
2012 1 30 Festus Ezeli
2012 2 35 Draymond Green

Just sayin...

To be fair Steph isn’t late lottery, nor is Udoh or Barnes.
If Steph isn’t there no way they become a really good team let alone a great team as they don’t get Durant either.
If you’re meaning they are drafting around the same as the Kings then yeah that’s correct


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Bingo!

5-9. The Kings sweet spot.

We just gotta get our Curry



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[enderwilson]

To be fair Steph isn’t late lottery, nor is Udoh or Barnes.
If Steph isn’t there no way they become a really good team let alone a great team as they don’t get Durant either.
If you’re meaning they are drafting around the same as the Kings then yeah that’s correct


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Bingo!

5-9. The Kings sweet spot.

We just gotta get our Curry



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

The point of this to me is that you can't really predict whose going to be a franchise player or what player is going to be the best out of a given draft. Anyone predict that Kuzma would be better than Ball on the Lakers? That Mitchell would be the ROY contender from this year's draft class? WE had the ROY from the same draft that Steph came from. In that draft, Blake Griffin was supposed to be the best franchise changing player. I don't feel that draft position does a whole lot to change a team's fortunes. We could go round and round how individual players are important, but they don't give you a wining team.

Is the draft important for building a better team? Even a playoff contender? Absolutely. However, I read the threads year in and year out and every time it's about how the draft is going to fix our problems THIS YEAR. I guarantee we'll be having this same conversation next year. To me it's all meaningless if we just end up in the same place. I would gladly sacrifice draft position if it means that the talent we do have is learning how to win. That's the only change we should really care about.

[kingjawn100]

Bingo!

5-9. The Kings sweet spot.

We just gotta get our Curry



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

The point of this to me is that you can't really predict whose going to be a franchise player or what player is going to be the best out of a given draft. Anyone predict that Kuzma would be better than Ball on the Lakers? That Mitchell would be the ROY contender from this year's draft class? WE had the ROY from the same draft that Steph came from. In that draft, Blake Griffin was supposed to be the best franchise changing player. I don't feel that draft position does a whole lot to change a team's fortunes. We could go round and round how individual players are important, but they don't give you a wining team.

Is the draft important for building a better team? Even a playoff contender? Absolutely. However, I read the threads year in and year out and every time it's about how the draft is going to fix our problems THIS YEAR. I guarantee we'll be having this same conversation next year. To me it's all meaningless if we just end up in the same place. I would gladly sacrifice draft position if it means that the talent we do have is learning how to win. That's the only change we should really care about.

I hear all that but there are some players that are simply better prospects than others which is why they get picked higher. Could Kevin Knox end up better than DeAndre Ayton? There's a chance. But odds are he won't be as Ayton is clearly the superior prospect. Is your argument that we shouldn't tank and then hope and pray that the player we pick at 8/9 ends up being as good as Doncic/Ayton? I don't get the detriment of treating the last 25 games like exhibitions, as half the league is doing the same thing. Again, the only option a team like the kings has is the draft as free agents don't wanna come here.

In regards to tanking league-wide I'm calling it: i can see it getting VERY ugly/obvious come the last week or 2 of the season. I'm talking about tons of healthy scratches to good players. I'm talking about a teams' best player being subbed out in the last minute of a close game for no apparent reason. And i can even envision a suspicious dumb foul or technical or blown layup the cost a team a game. Sure players and coaches don't tank but if a phone call is made from ownership/management guys have to follow orders. I think it's gonna get ugly this year where we see major lottery reform in the next couple years.

[enderwilson]

We just gotta get our Curry



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The point of this to me is that you can't really predict whose going to be a franchise player or what player is going to be the best out of a given draft. Anyone predict that Kuzma would be better than Ball on the Lakers? That Mitchell would be the ROY contender from this year's draft class? WE had the ROY from the same draft that Steph came from. In that draft, Blake Griffin was supposed to be the best franchise changing player. I don't feel that draft position does a whole lot to change a team's fortunes. We could go round and round how individual players are important, but they don't give you a wining team.

Is the draft important for building a better team? Even a playoff contender? Absolutely. However, I read the threads year in and year out and every time it's about how the draft is going to fix our problems THIS YEAR. I guarantee we'll be having this same conversation next year. To me it's all meaningless if we just end up in the same place. I would gladly sacrifice draft position if it means that the talent we do have is learning how to win. That's the only change we should really care about.

I hear all that but there are some players that are simply better prospects than others which is why they get picked higher. Could Kevin Knox end up better than DeAndre Ayton?

Of course, but this isn't the issue from my perspective. To me the cheers for tanking means that we must sacrifice improvement of the team we do have. Last year we acquired players from the draft that were supposed to elevate our team THIS year. But now we're going to trash their development just to get a better draft pick? Then what's going to happen next year to this year's pick? Are we going to blow that player and the rest of the team off too if we don't see miraculous levels of improvement, just to get a better draft pick? And then we get back into the same sets of questions the year after that. It's a never ending perpetual cycle that can only end if and when our players actually develop into a cohesive team that learns how to win together. Even if the end of the season is "fools gold" in terms of what the wins mean, it's still an opportunity for development of our young team. Learning how to win can only be accomplished by competing to win games. If the other teams are just going to roll over and show us their bellies, then I would teach our young team how to gut them completely. Humiliate the "F" out of them so they are forced to compete. Teams like the Suns aren't going to elevate their game through the tank. We shouldn't be looking to emulate them.

There's a chance. But odds are he won't be as Ayton is clearly the superior prospect. Is your argument that we shouldn't tank and then hope and pray that the player we pick at 8/9 ends up being as good as Doncic/Ayton? I don't get the detriment of treating the last 25 games like exhibitions, as half the league is doing the same thing. Again, the only option a team like the kings has is the draft as free agents don't wanna come here.

This is not really true though. Sure we won't bring in the LeBron's of the league, but there are many examples of championship caliber teams that do not have a top 3 draft pick on their team, nor superstar level players acquired through signings. Sacramento 16 years ago for example. 2004 Detroit Pistons. 2015 Golden State Warriors. We can acquire key players via trades (see the Ainge strategy), and just this last year we signed a coveted player in George Hill. Ultimately $$ talks and if the culture is right, player's won't have issues playing for a team that gives them a chance to succeed.

In regards to tanking league-wide I'm calling it: i can see it getting VERY ugly/obvious come the last week or 2 of the season. I'm talking about tons of healthy scratches to good players. I'm talking about a teams' best player being subbed out in the last minute of a close game for no apparent reason. And i can even envision a suspicious dumb foul or technical or blown layup the cost a team a game. Sure players and coaches don't tank but if a phone call is made from ownership/management guys have to follow orders. I think it's gonna get ugly this year where we see major lottery reform in the next couple years.

While the new lottery format doesn't take effect until 2019 I'm hoping it encourages teams to focus on development of the team they have rather than tanking. "The Process" has helped Philly get into the playoffs, but many have already hailed it as a success, despite not seeing what Philly's "success" really looks like in the next year or two. If they only succeed to a low to middling playoff team in the East, then perhaps some people can find solace in that.

[LightTheBeam]

When we do end up picking 8th or 9th, all you anti tankers, I hope you remember all the wins Randolph, Temple, Carter, KK gave you for several years, as our continued existence of meaninglessness goes on for several more years.

Then again, who knows, maybe they know exactly what they're doing considering the majority of the Kings able bodied young talent might being giving the team more wins to deal with in the end.

This is spot on. How many close games have we had where the young guys get us back into the game only to sub Randolph back in, then have him turn the ball over twice in the post.

[codydaze]

The point of this to me is that you can't really predict whose going to be a franchise player or what player is going to be the best out of a given draft. Anyone predict that Kuzma would be better than Ball on the Lakers? That Mitchell would be the ROY contender from this year's draft class? WE had the ROY from the same draft that Steph came from. In that draft, Blake Griffin was supposed to be the best franchise changing player. I don't feel that draft position does a whole lot to change a team's fortunes. We could go round and round how individual players are important, but they don't give you a wining team.

Is the draft important for building a better team? Even a playoff contender? Absolutely. However, I read the threads year in and year out and every time it's about how the draft is going to fix our problems THIS YEAR. I guarantee we'll be having this same conversation next year. To me it's all meaningless if we just end up in the same place. I would gladly sacrifice draft position if it means that the talent we do have is learning how to win. That's the only change we should really care about.

I hear all that but there are some players that are simply better prospects than others which is why they get picked higher. Could Kevin Knox end up better than DeAndre Ayton?

Of course, but this isn't the issue from my perspective. To me the cheers for tanking means that we must sacrifice improvement of the team we do have. Last year we acquired players from the draft that were supposed to elevate our team THIS year. But now we're going to trash their development just to get a better draft pick? Then what's going to happen next year to this year's pick? Are we going to blow that player and the rest of the team off too if we don't see miraculous levels of improvement, just to get a better draft pick? And then we get back into the same sets of questions the year after that. It's a never ending perpetual cycle that can only end if and when our players actually develop into a cohesive team that learns how to win together. Even if the end of the season is "fools gold" in terms of what the wins mean, it's still an opportunity for development of our young team. Learning how to win can only be accomplished by competing to win games. If the other teams are just going to roll over and show us their bellies, then I would teach our young team how to gut them completely. Humiliate the "F" out of them so they are forced to compete. Teams like the Suns aren't going to elevate their game through the tank. We shouldn't be looking to emulate them.

There's a chance. But odds are he won't be as Ayton is clearly the superior prospect. Is your argument that we shouldn't tank and then hope and pray that the player we pick at 8/9 ends up being as good as Doncic/Ayton? I don't get the detriment of treating the last 25 games like exhibitions, as half the league is doing the same thing. Again, the only option a team like the kings has is the draft as free agents don't wanna come here.

This is not really true though. Sure we won't bring in the LeBron's of the league, but there are many examples of championship caliber teams that do not have a top 3 draft pick on their team, nor superstar level players acquired through signings. Sacramento 16 years ago for example. 2004 Detroit Pistons. 2015 Golden State Warriors. We can acquire key players via trades (see the Ainge strategy), and just this last year we signed a coveted player in George Hill. Ultimately $$ talks and if the culture is right, player's won't have issues playing for a team that gives them a chance to succeed.

In regards to tanking league-wide I'm calling it: i can see it getting VERY ugly/obvious come the last week or 2 of the season. I'm talking about tons of healthy scratches to good players. I'm talking about a teams' best player being subbed out in the last minute of a close game for no apparent reason. And i can even envision a suspicious dumb foul or technical or blown layup the cost a team a game. Sure players and coaches don't tank but if a phone call is made from ownership/management guys have to follow orders. I think it's gonna get ugly this year where we see major lottery reform in the next couple years.

While the new lottery format doesn't take effect until 2019 I'm hoping it encourages teams to focus on development of the team they have rather than tanking. "The Process" has helped Philly get into the playoffs, but many have already hailed it as a success, despite not seeing what Philly's "success" really looks like in the next year or two. If they only succeed to a low to middling playoff team in the East, then perhaps some people can find solace in that.

I don't think tanking means guys aren't being developed, I think both can be done at the same time. We're a young team and are gonna lose a bunch of games anyway, I don't think Buddy and Bogdan were brought in with the intention of making us better than we ever were with Cousins straight away, there's a long term approach here and a top 3 pick helps way more than a pick in the 7-10 range.