Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[BobbieL]

Its not like people want to get rid of Warren. Warren is a great player and does all the things you say. But lets say the Suns draft Doncic. This team would be unbalanced. You have to trade something good to get something good. And it just so happens that quality wings are in high demand. Warren's consistency in scoring, combined with his favorable contract, makes us him a valuable trade piece. If you don't want to trade Warren, you have to trade Jackson. But I happen to think that Jackson's two-way play is what we want to keep. He will really come into his own in a year and a half or so, which fits perfect with everyone else. You cannot trade away trash players like Chriss, Ulis, etc and hope to get the piece you need coming back. This is no longer about assets. Its about building a cohesive team.

If the Suns draft Doncic or Porter, they need to package Warren and picks to get a big. Its just what they have to do.

I have proposed earlier my trades and they don't include Warren. I also understand why Warren could be used in a trade. His sarly on 7/1 jumps to 13m - which makes it easier in terms of matching dollars; the Suns might have too many wings if they get Doncic. So, if it happen - depending the player they get back - I will understand

I also know the guy can score the ball and would be a nice role player off the bench. Guys that can get you double figures off the bench, as Week or BWG noted (Manu, Harden, Iguodala Sweet Lou, remember the Microwave) - good guys to have on yoru team.

If the Suns draft Donic or Porter I would rather keep Warren than trade him for some "imaginary" big man. Most big men are getting 24 minutes or less in the new position-less NBA, with the exception of elite bigs who are monsters on offense too. Rolling out line ups like

Payton/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender
Doncic/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender
Payton/Booker/Jackson/Doncic/Bender
Payton/Booker/Jackson/Porter/Bender
Booker/Jackson/Warren/Porter/Bender
Payton/Booker/Porter/Warren/Bender
Payton/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Porter

excites me more than a big man who can't shoot free throws, clogs the paint for our PGs, and can't shoot the three ball.

Booker can play 1-3
Jackson can play 2-4
Warren can play 3-4
Bender can play 3-5
Porter could play 3-5
Doncic could play 1-4

If your big man isn't elite on offense or can't shoot the three well, other teams will just play small ball against you to nullify his rebounding and shot blocking advantages on the defensive end. Regardless, I don't see us finding an elite big man in a trade this summer. Likewise, any big man we draft is going to take time to develop which mean we should definitely keep TJ around for a bit longer.

As much as I want the Suns to start getting better next year and pushing for a playoff spot - I listed earlier in this thread - that if they take the two picks this year and sign Payton - it will be 10 players around 25 and under on the roster next year. Play it out in 18/19, Dudley, Chandler, Daniels off the books that summer and see in the summer of 2019 - of those 10 players - who are the ones to move forward with longer term and who need to "go fishing"

I get Booker is one of the 10 so he is a lock. But I agree - I am not moving Warren just because I get Doncic -- this team needs all the GOOD players it can get - especially a guy that can score the ball with a mid range game.

[thamadkant]

I like Warren...

But quiet simply there will not be enough shots to go around if you add in someone like Porter or Doncic or even Ayton.


Booker is a 25ppg type.... At least.
Jackson will be someone around 17 to 19ppg...
Then if you have someone like Doncic or Porter or even Ayton... Both are good for 20ppg even higher as they progress ....

Then you have Payton, Bender etc... Both can score 12 to 15ppg by themselves as well.

What the Suns will need when they have 4 players who can score 15ppg plus... Is a big man either PF or C who doesn't score much but dominated the game on the boards, rim protection and physical play inside.


Even the Warriors and Rockets have big bodies to take advantage of teams going small against them or when the perimeter shots are not falling.



Warren is good but if Suns draft a high scoring SF or wing.... He will move to 6th man or you trade him to a team that he will help as a starter... He is a 20ppg player with enough shots... Unfortunately due to his lack of free throw attempts and 3pt range... He needs to take 20 shots to score 20 points most nights.

[bwgood77]

I like Warren...

But quiet simply there will not be enough shots to go around if you add in someone like Porter or Doncic or even Ayton.


Booker is a 25ppg type.... At least.
Jackson will be someone around 17 to 19ppg...
Then if you have someone like Doncic or Porter or even Ayton... Both are good for 20ppg even higher as they progress ....

Then you have Payton, Bender etc... Both can score 12 to 15ppg by themselves as well.

What the Suns will need when they have 4 players who can score 15ppg plus... Is a big man either PF or C who doesn't score much but dominated the game on the boards, rim protection and physical play inside.


Even the Warriors and Rockets have big bodies to take advantage of teams going small against them or when the perimeter shots are not falling.



Warren is good but if Suns draft a high scoring SF or wing.... He will move to 6th man or you trade him to a team that he will help as a starter... He is a 20ppg player with enough shots... Unfortunately due to his lack of free throw attempts and 3pt range... He needs to take 20 shots to score 20 points most nights.

Warren takes 16 shots per game and averages over 19 pts.

Jackson takes a little under 11 shots per game and averages a little more than 11 pts.

Booker takes 19 shots per game and averages 24 pts.

Warren is at 1.2 points per shot. Booker at 1.28 pps, and Jackson at 1.04 pps.

[Wilber85]

I like Warren...

But quiet simply there will not be enough shots to go around if you add in someone like Porter or Doncic or even Ayton.


Booker is a 25ppg type.... At least.
Jackson will be someone around 17 to 19ppg...
Then if you have someone like Doncic or Porter or even Ayton... Both are good for 20ppg even higher as they progress ....

Then you have Payton, Bender etc... Both can score 12 to 15ppg by themselves as well.

What the Suns will need when they have 4 players who can score 15ppg plus... Is a big man either PF or C who doesn't score much but dominated the game on the boards, rim protection and physical play inside.


Even the Warriors and Rockets have big bodies to take advantage of teams going small against them or when the perimeter shots are not falling.



Warren is good but if Suns draft a high scoring SF or wing.... He will move to 6th man or you trade him to a team that he will help as a starter... He is a 20ppg player with enough shots... Unfortunately due to his lack of free throw attempts and 3pt range... He needs to take 20 shots to score 20 points most nights.

Sooooo you don't want a team where everyone can score? lol what is this lol

Every player on the Warriors can put up 20 ppg any given night! If one is off the other is on! I want all the scoring we can get!

[rsavaj]

Rosterbation.

Suns pick, Heat pick, Reed, Chriss

For

Anthony Davis


Why? Cousins take a 18 months to recover... They re sign him on a discount....Pelicans tank and get younger and more shooters with the picks. Younger team with more depth when Cousins come back healthier and cheaper contract wise.


Suns get Davis

C: Chandler
PF: Davis
SF: Jackson
SG: Booker
PG: Payton
SF: Warren
PF/C: Bender
SG: Daniels

I'd do it and throw in even more but I don't think NOP will ever trade him.

[thamadkant]

Jackson's scoring will improve and my post is his ppg in year 3 or 4.

Warren is a heck of a scorer... As Eddie Johnson has mentioned Warren and Jackson replicate slashing and scoring in the paint a lot. But Jackson brings in much more to the table. Compare their rookie play and Jackson is much more impressive already.

Porter and Doncic are 2 wing players who need shots and possessions to be effective and I feel also that both bring more to the table than Warren.


I like Warren... And if Suns go for a defensive oriented front court then it's fine to have Warren taking around 16 shots per game.


But Jackson, I project, will be an all rounder and a scorer down the line.


I feel with Payton... Booker will do less play making and more shooting and spotting... Still see him as a 25ppg 4apg 4rpg player... Now Bender just needs to be more aggressive to be that 12ppg 5apg 8rpg all rounder at the front court.

[bigfoot]

I have proposed earlier my trades and they don't include Warren. I also understand why Warren could be used in a trade. His sarly on 7/1 jumps to 13m - which makes it easier in terms of matching dollars; the Suns might have too many wings if they get Doncic. So, if it happen - depending the player they get back - I will understand

I also know the guy can score the ball and would be a nice role player off the bench. Guys that can get you double figures off the bench, as Week or BWG noted (Manu, Harden, Iguodala Sweet Lou, remember the Microwave) - good guys to have on yoru team.

If the Suns draft Donic or Porter I would rather keep Warren than trade him for some "imaginary" big man. Most big men are getting 24 minutes or less in the new position-less NBA, with the exception of elite bigs who are monsters on offense too. Rolling out line ups like

Payton/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender
Doncic/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender
Payton/Booker/Jackson/Doncic/Bender
Payton/Booker/Jackson/Porter/Bender
Booker/Jackson/Warren/Porter/Bender
Payton/Booker/Porter/Warren/Bender
Payton/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Porter

excites me more than a big man who can't shoot free throws, clogs the paint for our PGs, and can't shoot the three ball.

Booker can play 1-3
Jackson can play 2-4
Warren can play 3-4
Bender can play 3-5
Porter could play 3-5
Doncic could play 1-4

If your big man isn't elite on offense or can't shoot the three well, other teams will just play small ball against you to nullify his rebounding and shot blocking advantages on the defensive end. Regardless, I don't see us finding an elite big man in a trade this summer. Likewise, any big man we draft is going to take time to develop which mean we should definitely keep TJ around for a bit longer.

As much as I want the Suns to start getting better next year and pushing for a playoff spot - I listed earlier in this thread - that if they take the two picks this year and sign Payton - it will be 10 players around 25 and under on the roster next year. Play it out in 18/19, Dudley, Chandler, Daniels off the books that summer and see in the summer of 2019 - of those 10 players - who are the ones to move forward with longer term and who need to "go fishing"

I get Booker is one of the 10 so he is a lock. But I agree - I am not moving Warren just because I get Doncic -- this team needs all the GOOD players it can get - especially a guy that can score the ball with a mid range game.

I think we could solve that "10 players under 25 problem" by waiving Ulis and Reed this year. Reed has looked completely lost on the court so far. Ulis is being overwhelmed by bigger players. Really we should send these two on a fishing trip this summer and replace them with two prime age veterans on one year contracts. Our young starters (Payton/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender) need a good bench in order to be challenged in practice. If we could upgrade Dudley and Chandler with better vets that would be ideal too. Harder practices and better replacements when foul problems and injuries hit. We would still be very young with our starting five and two rookies but the bench would be an asset both in practices and games.

[thamadkant]

I think if Suns don't want Reed.. A few teams would knock on the door.

Although he has been out most of the season so i would give him more time. He has played well in the summer league just before he got injured.



Suns getting blown out a lot is due to the lack of discipline. And discipline usually comes with age... If Suns wants to be competitive and prevent 30 plus point blow outs... They need more rotational veterans... Chandler and Dudley don't count, they're more valuable for their locker room presence.

[Saberestar]

I like Warren...

But quiet simply there will not be enough shots to go around if you add in someone like Porter or Doncic or even Ayton.


Booker is a 25ppg type.... At least.
Jackson will be someone around 17 to 19ppg...
Then if you have someone like Doncic or Porter or even Ayton... Both are good for 20ppg even higher as they progress ....

Then you have Payton, Bender etc... Both can score 12 to 15ppg by themselves as well.

What the Suns will need when they have 4 players who can score 15ppg plus... Is a big man either PF or C who doesn't score much but dominated the game on the boards, rim protection and physical play inside.


Even the Warriors and Rockets have big bodies to take advantage of teams going small against them or when the perimeter shots are not falling.



Warren is good but if Suns draft a high scoring SF or wing.... He will move to 6th man or you trade him to a team that he will help as a starter... He is a 20ppg player with enough shots... Unfortunately due to his lack of free throw attempts and 3pt range... He needs to take 20 shots to score 20 points most nights.

I think those stats are what we HOPE, but it is not that easy. They need to show that they can put those numbers for real, for now is only in our mind.

Warren is consistent and you know what you get with him. We need MORE players like that next to our youngsters.

Bender is not a sure thing yet. He has progressed in the last couple of weeks, but he is a 6 points/4 rebounds player this season.

He has putting better numbers lately but is an small sample size.

And a rookie averaging over 20 points per game on a winning team? And yes, we want to be a competitive team next season, not a nother 24W season.

In this draft there are not LeBrons out there waiting...these youngsters are gonna struggle, all of them have big flaws. No way I can see Doncic or Ayton (for example) putting 20+ points per game.

[BobbieL]

If the Suns draft Donic or Porter I would rather keep Warren than trade him for some "imaginary" big man. Most big men are getting 24 minutes or less in the new position-less NBA, with the exception of elite bigs who are monsters on offense too. Rolling out line ups like

Payton/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender
Doncic/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender
Payton/Booker/Jackson/Doncic/Bender
Payton/Booker/Jackson/Porter/Bender
Booker/Jackson/Warren/Porter/Bender
Payton/Booker/Porter/Warren/Bender
Payton/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Porter

excites me more than a big man who can't shoot free throws, clogs the paint for our PGs, and can't shoot the three ball.

Booker can play 1-3
Jackson can play 2-4
Warren can play 3-4
Bender can play 3-5
Porter could play 3-5
Doncic could play 1-4

If your big man isn't elite on offense or can't shoot the three well, other teams will just play small ball against you to nullify his rebounding and shot blocking advantages on the defensive end. Regardless, I don't see us finding an elite big man in a trade this summer. Likewise, any big man we draft is going to take time to develop which mean we should definitely keep TJ around for a bit longer.

As much as I want the Suns to start getting better next year and pushing for a playoff spot - I listed earlier in this thread - that if they take the two picks this year and sign Payton - it will be 10 players around 25 and under on the roster next year. Play it out in 18/19, Dudley, Chandler, Daniels off the books that summer and see in the summer of 2019 - of those 10 players - who are the ones to move forward with longer term and who need to "go fishing"

I get Booker is one of the 10 so he is a lock. But I agree - I am not moving Warren just because I get Doncic -- this team needs all the GOOD players it can get - especially a guy that can score the ball with a mid range game.

I think we could solve that "10 players under 25 problem" by waiving Ulis and Reed this year. Reed has looked completely lost on the court so far. Ulis is being overwhelmed by bigger players. Really we should send these two on a fishing trip this summer and replace them with two prime age veterans on one year contracts. Our young starters (Payton/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender) need a good bench in order to be challenged in practice. If we could upgrade Dudley and Chandler with better vets that would be ideal too. Harder practices and better replacements when foul problems and injuries hit. We would still be very young with our starting five and two rookies but the bench would be an asset both in practices and games.

I am fine cutting Ulis for cap reasons . REed - I know he was hurt. But the one time Gambo was right was that one. The pick always should have been Jordan Bell - the guy who went the Warriors. A guy that could defend and run the floor - didn't need shots. damn!

My top 10 under 25 if Payton signs are: Booker, Payton, Bender, Chriss, Warren,Jackson, 2018 pick , 2018 Heat Pick, Sauce, Reed so I think I already cut Ulis and Peters

[BobbieL]

Gambo just said Doncic was a head case, a basket case. I am not sure how he knows but his "sources" for the Suns have been hit and miss lately

Gambo thinks the pick would be Ayton or Bagley ahead of Doncic

[bigfoot]

I think if Suns don't want Reed.. A few teams would knock on the door.

Although he has been out most of the season so i would give him more time. He has played well in the summer league just before he got injured.



Suns getting blown out a lot is due to the lack of discipline. And discipline usually comes with age... If Suns wants to be competitive and prevent 30 plus point blow outs... They need more rotational veterans... Chandler and Dudley don't count, they're more valuable for their locker room presence.

Definitely agree we need more veteran rotation players. As mentioned by BobbieL we have 10 players at 25 and under next season if you include the two 1st round picks. Our veterans (age more than 25) would be Knight, Williams, Chandler, Dudley, and Daniels. Like you said Dudley and Chandler really don't count. I guess Chandler could be a pretty good backup center but Dudley has opened 15 dunkin donut franchises and is determined to make them profitable. That's why I thing we should waive Ulis because he is not an NBA rotation player. We are deep at wing: Booker (SG/SF), Jackson (SG/SF), Knight (SG), Warren (SF), Daniels (SG/SF) so it makes sense to trade Reed or waive him to get more veteran depth at PF/C and may be PG positions.

[jcsunsfan]

Gambo just said Doncic was a head case, a basket case. I am not sure how he knows but his "sources" for the Suns have been hit and miss lately

Gambo thinks the pick would be Ayton or Bagley ahead of Doncic

I am fine with Ayton. I would have concerns about Bagley.

BTW. Between now and the draft, I have no doubt that Gambo's sources are telling him this. I would doubt greatly that his sources are telling the truth. Between now and the draft the amount of misinformation flying around will eclipse both the Clinton and Trump campaigns.

[bwgood77]

Gambo just said Doncic was a head case, a basket case. I am not sure how he knows but his "sources" for the Suns have been hit and miss lately

Gambo thinks the pick would be Ayton or Bagley ahead of Doncic

Gambo's kind of a headcase. How the hell would he know anything about Doncic? Bordow said Phoenix really likes Doncic.

[Saberestar]

Gambo just said Doncic was a head case, a basket case. I am not sure how he knows but his "sources" for the Suns have been hit and miss lately

Gambo thinks the pick would be Ayton or Bagley ahead of Doncic

Doncic is not exactly a head case, but he loses his mind on the court a lot.

He plays with too much passion and he has had problems with the refs and other players for that.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I feel like gambo has a bit of a bias with international guys. Litterally everything I've heard/read on doncic praises his mentality.

[Blonde]

Spoiler:

As much as I want the Suns to start getting better next year and pushing for a playoff spot - I listed earlier in this thread - that if they take the two picks this year and sign Payton - it will be 10 players around 25 and under on the roster next year. Play it out in 18/19, Dudley, Chandler, Daniels off the books that summer and see in the summer of 2019 - of those 10 players - who are the ones to move forward with longer term and who need to "go fishing"

I get Booker is one of the 10 so he is a lock. But I agree - I am not moving Warren just because I get Doncic -- this team needs all the GOOD players it can get - especially a guy that can score the ball with a mid range game.

I think we could solve that "10 players under 25 problem" by waiving Ulis and Reed this year. Reed has looked completely lost on the court so far. Ulis is being overwhelmed by bigger players. Really we should send these two on a fishing trip this summer and replace them with two prime age veterans on one year contracts. Our young starters (Payton/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender) need a good bench in order to be challenged in practice. If we could upgrade Dudley and Chandler with better vets that would be ideal too. Harder practices and better replacements when foul problems and injuries hit. We would still be very young with our starting five and two rookies but the bench would be an asset both in practices and games.

I am fine cutting Ulis for cap reasons . REed - I know he was hurt. But the one time Gambo was right was that one. The pick always should have been Jordan Bell - the guy who went the Warriors. A guy that could defend and run the floor - didn't need shots. damn!

My top 10 under 25 if Payton signs are: Booker, Payton, Bender, Chriss, Warren,Jackson, 2018 pick , 2018 Heat Pick, Sauce, Reed so I think I already cut Ulis and Peters

Man I was begging for us to grab Jordan Bell at 32 last year. That would have been the perfect pick for us. He would have played a ton of minutes this year too. That draft was insanely deep.

[BobbieL]

I think if Suns don't want Reed.. A few teams would knock on the door.

Although he has been out most of the season so i would give him more time. He has played well in the summer league just before he got injured.



Suns getting blown out a lot is due to the lack of discipline. And discipline usually comes with age... If Suns wants to be competitive and prevent 30 plus point blow outs... They need more rotational veterans... Chandler and Dudley don't count, they're more valuable for their locker room presence.

Definitely agree we need more veteran rotation players. As mentioned by BobbieL we have 10 players at 25 and under next season if you include the two 1st round picks. Our veterans (age more than 25) would be Knight, Williams, Chandler, Dudley, and Daniels. Like you said Dudley and Chandler really don't count. I guess Chandler could be a pretty good backup center but Dudley has opened 15 dunkin donut franchises and is determined to make them profitable. That's why I thing we should waive Ulis because he is not an NBA rotation player. We are deep at wing: Booker (SG/SF), Jackson (SG/SF), Knight (SG), Warren (SF), Daniels (SG/SF) so it makes sense to trade Reed or waive him to get more veteran depth at PF/C and may be PG positions.

Including those picks and IF they sign Payton - that is a long of young guys. Dudley, Chandler Daniels all expire next summer - so does that have value to a team trying to make a trade. Granted, I just don't know the player to target for those acquiring. But they will have value at some point I would guess.

I would like to see a veteran added this summer - one year deal, Belinelli maybe as the Suns cannot count on Knight to be the guy off the bench. Granted, if they keep Warren - Knight and Warren off the bench might be enough pop.

[Saberestar]

I think if Suns don't want Reed.. A few teams would knock on the door.

Although he has been out most of the season so i would give him more time. He has played well in the summer league just before he got injured.



Suns getting blown out a lot is due to the lack of discipline. And discipline usually comes with age... If Suns wants to be competitive and prevent 30 plus point blow outs... They need more rotational veterans... Chandler and Dudley don't count, they're more valuable for their locker room presence.

Definitely agree we need more veteran rotation players. As mentioned by BobbieL we have 10 players at 25 and under next season if you include the two 1st round picks. Our veterans (age more than 25) would be Knight, Williams, Chandler, Dudley, and Daniels. Like you said Dudley and Chandler really don't count. I guess Chandler could be a pretty good backup center but Dudley has opened 15 dunkin donut franchises and is determined to make them profitable. That's why I thing we should waive Ulis because he is not an NBA rotation player. We are deep at wing: Booker (SG/SF), Jackson (SG/SF), Knight (SG), Warren (SF), Daniels (SG/SF) so it makes sense to trade Reed or waive him to get more veteran depth at PF/C and may be PG positions.

Including those picks and IF they sign Payton - that is a long of young guys. Dudley, Chandler Daniels all expire next summer - so does that have value to a team trying to make a trade. Granted, I just don't know the player to target for those acquiring. But they will have value at some point I would guess.

I would like to see a veteran added this summer - one year deal, Belinelli maybe as the Suns cannot count on Knight to be the guy off the bench. Granted, if they keep Warren - Knight and Warren off the bench might be enough pop.

I like Belinelli a lot. He would be an upgrade over Daniels as a backup SG.

[lilfishi22]

Gambo just said Doncic was a head case, a basket case. I am not sure how he knows but his "sources" for the Suns have been hit and miss lately

Gambo thinks the pick would be Ayton or Bagley ahead of Doncic

If it's in the Kobe/MJ way, I'd take him #1