Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[Qwigglez]

Just kind of had a shower thought here about Cousins. I just saw an article about how AD came out and said something along the lines of "If Cousins wasn't injured we'd be in the finals".. do you think that might be him recruiting him to stay? If that's the case, then do you also think that there's doubt that he will stay? In that he might be open for leaving for the highest bidder? I'm unsure if I want him on the team, but maybe he's grown up and could be that force we need? I know it's been talked about to death, but the fact that AD seems to be trying to talk him into staying publicly, makes me think he is up for grabs.

He also wore his jersey during the all-star game so I definitely think he wants to keep him. I saw a rumor or something that said the Pelicans were trying to trade Cousins for DeAndre Jordan, but something fell thru.
Also, it looks like the Pelicans are in the luxury this year, by just a hair. If they sign Boogie, then they are for sure in the repeater tax this upcoming season, though by less than $5mil. Though they could likely trade Ajinca since he is an expiring, likely with a couple of 2nd rounders to a team who will eventually just buy him out.

Anyway, I was all about signing Boogie before his injury. I'd consider signing him depending on who we draft, but I think at this point, I'd rather just pray we get Ayton. At the same time, if we get the No 1 pick, and the Pelicans miss the playoffs, I could see us packaging the pick, along with both Miami picks, and maybe a future 1st for AD.

[Qwigglez]

Read on Twitter

Orlando will probably match any offer, but apparently the Suns will go after AG in RFA. I doubt it gets too far unless Magic are really looking to start over their rebuild, but never know. They've got no reason to let him go for free though, more likely that they match any offer and try for a sign-and-trade.

You can't trade a player who is about to be a RFA in the draft can you? For example, us trading the Miami pick for AG, so we can match any offer sheet.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Orlando will probably match any offer, but apparently the Suns will go after AG in RFA. I doubt it gets too far unless Magic are really looking to start over their rebuild, but never know. They've got no reason to let him go for free though, more likely that they match any offer and try for a sign-and-trade.

I don't think he is nearly worth a max contract, but it would probably take something like that not to match. And to carve out that kind of space, we'd have to renounce players, and let unguaranteed players go and either renounce Payton, or if we sign him for less than his cap hold (less than $10 million), we'd have to trade probably something like the Milwaukee first to dump Chandler to create the space. Maybe Atlanta would do it.

I think it kind of depends on the draft though.

I don't really totally trust Deveney either.

[RunDogGun]

Ugh, many here felt tanking was losing games on purpose. For some ridiculous reason the term has now been bastardized to mean if your team is bad or late in seasons playing deeper into the bench to evaluate talent, means you are “tanking”. I didn’t see Cuban saying, “I’m instructing you guys to lose games on purpose.” So let’s please not try and call out fans, when the definition was different for some fans, thank you.

On the comments by Cuban, it will be tough to turn that switch back on when you create a losing culture.

Back to the main topic: I still think our bet is to draft the best PF/C or PG available with our pick, and then package Chriss and remaining picks to get the best available of those two positions we didn’t take with our pick. Our second rounder should be valuable since it is just outside the first round but a non guaranteed contract.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Read on Twitter

Orlando will probably match any offer, but apparently the Suns will go after AG in RFA. I doubt it gets too far unless Magic are really looking to start over their rebuild, but never know. They've got no reason to let him go for free though, more likely that they match any offer and try for a sign-and-trade.

You can't trade a player who is about to be a RFA in the draft can you? For example, us trading the Miami pick for AG, so we can match any offer sheet.

No the Magic can't trade AG during the draft. RFA's are treated just like UFA's when it comes to this and since the draft is in June at that point the Suns wouldn't be allowed to talk contract with another teams FA. Another thing that should be noted is if AG hits the market and actually signs an offer sheet at that point the Magic have only two options: match and keep him and are not allowed to trade him for 1 year OR let him leave for nothing. You can do a sign and trade for a RFA but that needs to be worked out prior to that player signing the offer sheet and in that case he will technically sign with the Magic and be immediately traded to the Suns. And you are allowed to trade guys you just drafted so technically the Suns could take someone with the Miami pick and package that player along with some salary like Dudley or Chandler combined with the suns cap space to make it work in the CBA. The sketchy thing with this plan is AG would have to want to sign here and they just won't know that until after the draft so if they are picking a player that they might trade it better also be a player they are willing to keep if this deal doesn't materialize.

[Sreister]

Read on Twitter

Orlando will probably match any offer, but apparently the Suns will go after AG in RFA. I doubt it gets too far unless Magic are really looking to start over their rebuild, but never know. They've got no reason to let him go for free though, more likely that they match any offer and try for a sign-and-trade.

You can't trade a player who is about to be a RFA in the draft can you? For example, us trading the Miami pick for AG, so we can match any offer sheet.

No the Magic can't trade AG during the draft. RFA's are treated just like UFA's when it comes to this and since the draft is in June at that point the Suns wouldn't be allowed to talk contract with another teams FA. Another thing that should be noted is if AG hits the market and actually signs an offer sheet at that point the Magic have only two options: match and keep him and are not allowed to trade him for 1 year OR let him leave for nothing. You can do a sign and trade for a RFA but that needs to be worked out prior to that player signing the offer sheet and in that case he will technically sign with the Magic and be immediately traded to the Suns. And you are allowed to trade guys you just drafted so technically the Suns could take someone with the Miami pick and package that player along with some salary like Dudley or Chandler combined with the suns cap space to make it work in the CBA. The sketchy thing with this plan is AG would have to want to sign here and they just won't know that until after the draft so if they are picking a player that they might trade it better also be a player they are willing to keep if this deal doesn't materialize.

Interesting. Think they'd want something like Chriss and a late first for AG? Not sold on him, but he gives us more talent than I feel like a late first and Chriss gives? I'm not giving up on Chriss, but maybe worth something like that? Depending, obviously, on what we pay AG. I don't know, I'm not sold on him yet.

[WeekapaugGroove]

You can't trade a player who is about to be a RFA in the draft can you? For example, us trading the Miami pick for AG, so we can match any offer sheet.

No the Magic can't trade AG during the draft. RFA's are treated just like UFA's when it comes to this and since the draft is in June at that point the Suns wouldn't be allowed to talk contract with another teams FA. Another thing that should be noted is if AG hits the market and actually signs an offer sheet at that point the Magic have only two options: match and keep him and are not allowed to trade him for 1 year OR let him leave for nothing. You can do a sign and trade for a RFA but that needs to be worked out prior to that player signing the offer sheet and in that case he will technically sign with the Magic and be immediately traded to the Suns. And you are allowed to trade guys you just drafted so technically the Suns could take someone with the Miami pick and package that player along with some salary like Dudley or Chandler combined with the suns cap space to make it work in the CBA. The sketchy thing with this plan is AG would have to want to sign here and they just won't know that until after the draft so if they are picking a player that they might trade it better also be a player they are willing to keep if this deal doesn't materialize.

Interesting. Think they'd want something like Chriss and a late first for AG? Not sold on him, but he gives us more talent than I feel like a late first and Chriss gives? I'm not giving up on Chriss, but maybe worth something like that? Depending, obviously, on what we pay AG. I don't know, I'm not sold on him yet.

It's possible they could take something like that if they don't want to pay AG and the other option is losing him for nothing. It's always hard to read with RFA's because teams will almost always leak info that they plan to match any offer sheet. They do this to scare other teams away from putting that sheet out there and having their cap space locked up for a week once that guys signs it only to end up with nothing. They also say that to try to get the other team to offer up a better sign and trade package. But ultimately the Suns could try to call their bluff and offer low ball trade package to the Magic and say 'take this or we'll just sign him to an offer sheet' if the Magic aren't comfortable paying AG whats on that offer sheet the might break and take something vs losing him for nothing.

[kennydorglas]

Chriss will be the odd man out?
We'll give him a chance to play next to Dragan to prove himself?

[AtheJ415]

Don't think the Suns are looking to move Chriss so quickly. He has more value to us than the league and was good as a rookie and is only 20.

Orl doesn't want to pay Gordon, hence why he was on the trade block. If the signing is for a huge amount Phx could use that leverage into a lesser offer.

[AtheJ415]

Also if we draft Doncic or Young, there is plenty of room for 3 bigs. Chriss can play some 5.

[BobbieL]

No the Magic can't trade AG during the draft. RFA's are treated just like UFA's when it comes to this and since the draft is in June at that point the Suns wouldn't be allowed to talk contract with another teams FA. Another thing that should be noted is if AG hits the market and actually signs an offer sheet at that point the Magic have only two options: match and keep him and are not allowed to trade him for 1 year OR let him leave for nothing. You can do a sign and trade for a RFA but that needs to be worked out prior to that player signing the offer sheet and in that case he will technically sign with the Magic and be immediately traded to the Suns. And you are allowed to trade guys you just drafted so technically the Suns could take someone with the Miami pick and package that player along with some salary like Dudley or Chandler combined with the suns cap space to make it work in the CBA. The sketchy thing with this plan is AG would have to want to sign here and they just won't know that until after the draft so if they are picking a player that they might trade it better also be a player they are willing to keep if this deal doesn't materialize.

Interesting. Think they'd want something like Chriss and a late first for AG? Not sold on him, but he gives us more talent than I feel like a late first and Chriss gives? I'm not giving up on Chriss, but maybe worth something like that? Depending, obviously, on what we pay AG. I don't know, I'm not sold on him yet.

It's possible they could take something like that if they don't want to pay AG and the other option is losing him for nothing. It's always hard to read with RFA's because teams will almost always leak info that they plan to match any offer sheet. They do this to scare other teams away from putting that sheet out there and having their cap space locked up for a week once that guys signs it only to end up with nothing. They also say that to try to get the other team to offer up a better sign and trade package. But ultimately the Suns could try to call their bluff and offer low ball trade package to the Magic and say 'take this or we'll just sign him to an offer sheet' if the Magic aren't comfortable paying AG whats on that offer sheet the might break and take something vs losing him for nothing.

Good find -thanks for posting. And when in this thread earlier trying to get a guy like Gordon - I think the numbers are 80/4. Sign and trade would be higher. But when I try to make the numbers work without using Chandler or Dudley - -I come up short. But who knows, maybe trading Chandler and taking back Biyombo would be enticing. But for now, trying to get to 20m - this is one path I see

Suns if they renounce Peters and Len and sign Payton for 8m or so - would leave about 6m
Chriss - 3.2
The Heat pick - 2.8m
Ulis - 1.5m
Daniels - 3.2 - one year left
So I get to around 16.7m
If the Suns add Sauce - which is not guaranteed - that puts them over easily as that gets the "math" to around 22m

If the Suns do not do anything with Payton - well that changes a lot of things

Could the Suns renounce Payton and than use the MLE to sign him back AFTER a trade for Gordon?

Maybe if the Suns add the Bucks pick - the Magic would take Dudley and buy him out,

Pacers have Al Jefferson to trade because that is 10m of "cap money" but only 4m guaranteed. Pacers do not have the picks the Suns can trade - unless they use their own.

[AtheJ415]

What is the point of both maxing out AG AND trading a bunch to get him? Either sign him to something reasonable and do a S&T or else overpay and offer next to nothing in a S&T and see if Orlando matches. Unless we draft Ayton, throwing in Chriss makes little sense here.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Interesting. Think they'd want something like Chriss and a late first for AG? Not sold on him, but he gives us more talent than I feel like a late first and Chriss gives? I'm not giving up on Chriss, but maybe worth something like that? Depending, obviously, on what we pay AG. I don't know, I'm not sold on him yet.

It's possible they could take something like that if they don't want to pay AG and the other option is losing him for nothing. It's always hard to read with RFA's because teams will almost always leak info that they plan to match any offer sheet. They do this to scare other teams away from putting that sheet out there and having their cap space locked up for a week once that guys signs it only to end up with nothing. They also say that to try to get the other team to offer up a better sign and trade package. But ultimately the Suns could try to call their bluff and offer low ball trade package to the Magic and say 'take this or we'll just sign him to an offer sheet' if the Magic aren't comfortable paying AG whats on that offer sheet the might break and take something vs losing him for nothing.

Good find -thanks for posting. And when in this thread earlier trying to get a guy like Gordon - I think the numbers are 80/4. Sign and trade would be higher. But when I try to make the numbers work without using Chandler or Dudley - -I come up short. But who knows, maybe trading Chandler and taking back Biyombo would be enticing. But for now, trying to get to 20m - this is one path I see

Suns if they renounce Peters and Len and sign Payton for 8m or so - would leave about 6m
Chriss - 3.2
The Heat pick - 2.8m
Ulis - 1.5m
Daniels - 3.2 - one year left
So I get to around 16.7m
If the Suns add Sauce - which is not guaranteed - that puts them over easily as that gets the "math" to around 22m

If the Suns do not do anything with Payton - well that changes a lot of things

Could the Suns renounce Payton and than use the MLE to sign him back AFTER a trade for Gordon?

Maybe if the Suns add the Bucks pick - the Magic would take Dudley and buy him out,

Pacers have Al Jefferson to trade because that is 10m of "cap money" but only 4m guaranteed. Pacers do not have the picks the Suns can trade - unless they use their own.

Good breakdown of how a S&T with Orlando might look.

I'm honestly not sure if they could renounce Payton and bring him back on the MLE in this scenario. You are not allowed to use cap space to sign FA's then use the MLE that same summer after your cap space is gone. BUT since the suns would be using up their cap space in a trade (for AG) I think something like that MIGHT be legal.

The other option to chase AG would be to use someone like Chriss or a minor asset to move Chandler or Dudley's contract to another team with cap space. That way they could just outright offer AG a maxish type deal. Now this is super dangerous because you could sacrifice an asset to create that space then have the Magic simply match the offer sheet. With the waiting period by the time they match other good FA's could be off the market and then you're left with cap space you spent assets to create and no one worth while to give that money to.

[thamadkant]

Aaron Gordon isn't the solution. And if he is indeed that good... Magic won't let him go.. Its simple. That rumor is old and its not really telling...



Suns need a big man because Len is gone and Chandler is old.
So they may go for Capela but hopefully not... Max money for him is not smart.


Or draft a big.

[BobbieL]

What is the point of both maxing out AG AND trading a bunch to get him? Either sign him to something reasonable and do a S&T or else overpay and offer next to nothing in a S&T and see if Orlando matches. Unless we draft Ayton, throwing in Chriss makes little sense here.

Valid point. But the Suns have a lot of young players that eventually they are not going to be able to sign or re-sign. They could add two more young players and three second rounders this draft still. So, for me its about finding the right player that might be an impact player

Maybe Gordon is not it. And depending on ping pong balls - if they draft an Bagley or Porter - Gordon makes less sense than Capela

But as I outlined above - a lot of the players are expendable to me. Ulis, Daniels, Williams (love the energy but come on) - am willing to part with those players to make a deal work.

[jcsunsfan]

You can't trade a player who is about to be a RFA in the draft can you? For example, us trading the Miami pick for AG, so we can match any offer sheet.

No the Magic can't trade AG during the draft. RFA's are treated just like UFA's when it comes to this and since the draft is in June at that point the Suns wouldn't be allowed to talk contract with another teams FA. Another thing that should be noted is if AG hits the market and actually signs an offer sheet at that point the Magic have only two options: match and keep him and are not allowed to trade him for 1 year OR let him leave for nothing. You can do a sign and trade for a RFA but that needs to be worked out prior to that player signing the offer sheet and in that case he will technically sign with the Magic and be immediately traded to the Suns. And you are allowed to trade guys you just drafted so technically the Suns could take someone with the Miami pick and package that player along with some salary like Dudley or Chandler combined with the suns cap space to make it work in the CBA. The sketchy thing with this plan is AG would have to want to sign here and they just won't know that until after the draft so if they are picking a player that they might trade it better also be a player they are willing to keep if this deal doesn't materialize.

Interesting. Think they'd want something like Chriss and a late first for AG? Not sold on him, but he gives us more talent than I feel like a late first and Chriss gives? I'm not giving up on Chriss, but maybe worth something like that? Depending, obviously, on what we pay AG. I don't know, I'm not sold on him yet.

If they want to do a sign and trade, and AG is intent on signing a contract with us, then there is no real reason to give up much in the way of assets. If they want to keep him, they can keep him. If they want to let him go, they can let him go. We don't need to give up anything to sign him, so a sign and trade is not necessary unless there is something that would be mutually beneficial. I would think maybe trading Dudley or Chandler might be beneficial if we gave them a pick along with it. Or if we believe that Aaron Gordon replaces Chriss, then we could send them Chriss if they take Dudley.

[bwgood77]

It's possible they could take something like that if they don't want to pay AG and the other option is losing him for nothing. It's always hard to read with RFA's because teams will almost always leak info that they plan to match any offer sheet. They do this to scare other teams away from putting that sheet out there and having their cap space locked up for a week once that guys signs it only to end up with nothing. They also say that to try to get the other team to offer up a better sign and trade package. But ultimately the Suns could try to call their bluff and offer low ball trade package to the Magic and say 'take this or we'll just sign him to an offer sheet' if the Magic aren't comfortable paying AG whats on that offer sheet the might break and take something vs losing him for nothing.

Good find -thanks for posting. And when in this thread earlier trying to get a guy like Gordon - I think the numbers are 80/4. Sign and trade would be higher. But when I try to make the numbers work without using Chandler or Dudley - -I come up short. But who knows, maybe trading Chandler and taking back Biyombo would be enticing. But for now, trying to get to 20m - this is one path I see

Suns if they renounce Peters and Len and sign Payton for 8m or so - would leave about 6m
Chriss - 3.2
The Heat pick - 2.8m
Ulis - 1.5m
Daniels - 3.2 - one year left
So I get to around 16.7m
If the Suns add Sauce - which is not guaranteed - that puts them over easily as that gets the "math" to around 22m

If the Suns do not do anything with Payton - well that changes a lot of things

Could the Suns renounce Payton and than use the MLE to sign him back AFTER a trade for Gordon?

Maybe if the Suns add the Bucks pick - the Magic would take Dudley and buy him out,

Pacers have Al Jefferson to trade because that is 10m of "cap money" but only 4m guaranteed. Pacers do not have the picks the Suns can trade - unless they use their own.

Good breakdown of how a S&T with Orlando might look.

I'm honestly not sure if they could renounce Payton and bring him back on the MLE in this scenario. You are not allowed to use cap space to sign FA's then use the MLE that same summer after your cap space is gone. BUT since the suns would be using up their cap space in a trade (for AG) I think something like that MIGHT be legal.

The other option to chase AG would be to use someone like Chriss or a minor asset to move Chandler or Dudley's contract to another team with cap space. That way they could just outright offer AG a maxish type deal. Now this is super dangerous because you could sacrifice an asset to create that space then have the Magic simply match the offer sheet. With the waiting period by the time they match other good FA's could be off the market and then you're left with cap space you spent assets to create and no one worth while to give that money to.

Yeah, to get that cap space you have to renounce the MLE, at least on the Capulator, so what you say sounds right. I don't think Orlando would let him walk. They will want a first or something back in a S&T or will match an offer sheet.

If part of the selling point would be playing with Payton (rumor he was pissed they traded Payton) we'd also have to likely dump Chandler with a pick and waive Williams and possibly Reed/Ulis.

I'll be pretty surprised if they let him walk because of an offer sheet they feel is too big. They did draft Isaac though so they may be up for some sort of trade, but it wouldn't be for Chriss...it would definitely probably have to include a pick.

But there may not be a need depending on the draft.

Also, the report that the Suns "are expected to make an offer..or pursue him" sounds like it's just someone's assumption. So some "NBA guy" thinks the Suns may go after him and that's news.

[jcsunsfan]

Interesting. Think they'd want something like Chriss and a late first for AG? Not sold on him, but he gives us more talent than I feel like a late first and Chriss gives? I'm not giving up on Chriss, but maybe worth something like that? Depending, obviously, on what we pay AG. I don't know, I'm not sold on him yet.

It's possible they could take something like that if they don't want to pay AG and the other option is losing him for nothing. It's always hard to read with RFA's because teams will almost always leak info that they plan to match any offer sheet. They do this to scare other teams away from putting that sheet out there and having their cap space locked up for a week once that guys signs it only to end up with nothing. They also say that to try to get the other team to offer up a better sign and trade package. But ultimately the Suns could try to call their bluff and offer low ball trade package to the Magic and say 'take this or we'll just sign him to an offer sheet' if the Magic aren't comfortable paying AG whats on that offer sheet the might break and take something vs losing him for nothing.

Good find -thanks for posting. And when in this thread earlier trying to get a guy like Gordon - I think the numbers are 80/4. Sign and trade would be higher. But when I try to make the numbers work without using Chandler or Dudley - -I come up short. But who knows, maybe trading Chandler and taking back Biyombo would be enticing. But for now, trying to get to 20m - this is one path I see

Suns if they renounce Peters and Len and sign Payton for 8m or so - would leave about 6m
Chriss - 3.2
The Heat pick - 2.8m
Ulis - 1.5m
Daniels - 3.2 - one year left
So I get to around 16.7m
If the Suns add Sauce - which is not guaranteed - that puts them over easily as that gets the "math" to around 22m

If the Suns do not do anything with Payton - well that changes a lot of things

Could the Suns renounce Payton and than use the MLE to sign him back AFTER a trade for Gordon?

Maybe if the Suns add the Bucks pick - the Magic would take Dudley and buy him out,

Pacers have Al Jefferson to trade because that is 10m of "cap money" but only 4m guaranteed. Pacers do not have the picks the Suns can trade - unless they use their own.

I thought they had to renounce the MLE to use cap space to sign a FA. Oops. Sorry should have read to then end of the thread before I replied.

[Tysons Elbow]

FWIW I work for a stone company in PHX and my delivery driver just made a delivery to Scottsdale/PV area. The contractor on site told him it was Jason Kidd’s new house. Not sure what to make of it or if it’s even true. Thought it was worth mentioning.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[WeekapaugGroove]

Orlando will probably end up keeping AG. Even if they don't love the number he gets on an offer sheet they will probably still bite the bullet and not lose a good player for nothing. As long as he doesn't turn into brandon knight bad he'll be tradable even on a slightly bloated contract.