The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 - Off the Cliff we go

[fatlever]

I'm using voice to text to type out most of my post these days. So please forgive the lack of punctuation and or the random spelling mistakes.

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[amcoolio]

Sometimes all it takes is one bad apple to completely derail a talented roster. I thought it was Howard but he was playing unselfish and its still the same result.

I think the players are too complacent and Clifford doesn't motivate them anymore.

[Braggins]

The team has no identity and that is directly on Clifford. He basically said the same himself earlier in the season. The only things Clifford has demonstrated that he can definitely coach is defensive rebounding and taking care of the ball, so it should be no surprise that those are the only things the team is good at and that they consistently range from "meh" to bad in basically every other area the last couple years. You can't be a successful team in the modern NBA if your only identity is defensive rebounding and Cliffords obsession/overemphasis on that actually hurts the team in other areas. Who cares if you are the best defensive rebounding team in the league if you find yourself having to play a Spencer Hawes + Roy Hibbert front court, or virtually never playing small ball, in order to achieve it?

[therebirth]

I think cho likes athletic potential players (biz, vonleh, cody). mj likes "winners" frank, Kemba, mkg . Cliff likes "win now " players -
frank, trading the pick, probably even hairston.

Monk doesn't really fit any of these categories though. Guess he is a "winner" since he went to UK.

Mkg was definitely a cho guy. There is even a video of him making that decision on draft night. And according to Rick, there was a heated exchange between the coach and cho on who to choose. Clifford wanted Mitchell and cho wanted monk,since it was Clifford who wanted Howard, cho was allowed to have his guy Monk

Wow, if that is correct, what a crazy way to run a team. Cho is not a genius, and was a reach as a GM to begin with. Here his record is, at best, mediocre to below average.

Cho’s argument for drafting monk was that since Clifford wanted Howard, they needed a shooter to compliment that. Cho got his way and monk was drafted. This is all according to rick bonnell. He was talking about it on a Portland radio station.

[Bassman]

If you want to understand Clifford, Bonnell asked him some good questions (no follow up or challenge but no surprise at that). Here is the article: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article200871039.html

This demonstrates it is not about Clifford’s knowledge of the game. Based on his answers he admits he has not motivated his team to play the way they must to execute. Also he says (rightly) what has to happen, but then claims that his guys are playing well (Batum, MCW) when they are not. Either he is lying to cover publicly, or he believes what he wants to believe. I pick the latter.

When you talk glowingly about MCW, then list failure to make layups as one of your weakest areas, you are living in denial.

[JDR720]

Read on Twitter

Welp, there goes Nic to the bench / green

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Who are the team's worst defenders? (Ignoring the two-way guys)

By DRtg
1. Malik Monk
2. Treveon Graham
3. Kemba Walker
4. Frank Kaminsky


By DBPM
1. Malik Monk
2. Kemba Walker
3. Frank Kaminsky
4. Treveon Graham

Welp. I look forward to Kemba not playing down the stretch. Go tank?

[Robot Rock]

Clifford plays guys he likes. This narrative will only die the day he leaves.

[MasterIchiro]

Monk deserves minutes at SG but Clifford recognized the ascent of Lamb. The only thing he could do was to pull minutes from his two favorites: Le Creme Puff and MKG.

[euphorbus]

This demonstrates it is not about Clifford’s knowledge of the game.

Just reading the interview makes me ill. Coach Clifford has failed miserably at strategy, personnel management, young player development, and rotations (notice that he would not change the starting rotation).

Fire him now.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

It’s natural for a GM to work in conjunction with what the head coach need and wants but it’s up to the GM to stand firm and make the best decision for the team regardless of what anyone else thinks if he’s opposed to it. If Cho didn’t like Clifford’s views he could’ve easily fired him or pushed that narrative to MJ. Cho was Clifford’s boss, not the other way around.

At the end of the day Cho was under contract. No ultimatum or opinion should’ve derived him from making the right moves because he was going to get paid no matter what.

But even so after all of that being said the truth of the matter is that in this current state we’re financially hampered and that’s more of Cho’s fault than anyone else.

MJ is in charge in the end and if Cliff has his ear then this team is doomed until he is gone. Cho can override Cliff but not MJ so I think he lost a lot of the battles because the owner sided the other way. Maybe if we get a GM that has more sway with MJ than Cliff does we will things start to swing back.

So we won't really know if the decisions were his fault or if they were MJ forcing him to make moves at the request of Cliff. If the later is the case then the problem won't go away until our GM has more sway.

100% agree that we won’t get better until Clifford is gone. I wouldn’t be surprised if Clifford is treating Monk this way because he wanted Mitchell and Cho chose Monk. The same way Clifford opted to bench Lamb after Cho chose to extend him. I think Clifford shows his ass a lot via power struggles. He’s enough of a stubborn shmuck to do it.

I've suspected the same thing. However I think that it's important to note that we have 0 proof of this outside of stuff like playing time.

[MasterIchiro]

Is Clifford at .500 this year yet? Feels like Silas didn't win a game.

[TheKingofSting]

Clifford could mess up a wet dream!


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[catch20two]

Only in darkness can you see the light. Clifford has been holding this team back for years, not just the last two seasons.

It’s fair to wonder if his first season as head coach was just a product of us finally adding some quality veteran players that belong in the league to play alongside Kemba like Big Al, Neal, Tolliver and CDR without mentioning McBob’s contract year resurgence. Even then we faltered through the first half of the season and only began to win on the heels of Big Al playing out his mind with the rest of the mediocre teams opting to tank for the Wiggins-Jabari-Embiid sweepstakes instead of inevitably getting swept by the LeBron led Heat.

[catch20two]

I went back to look at the original Clifford thread from his first season and we were all complaining about his rotations not making sense since back then and he hasn’t changed in 5 years lol.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Meanwhile in Miami

Read on Twitter

[Eoghan]

Only in darkness can you see the light. Clifford has been holding this team back for years, not just the last two seasons.

It’s fair to wonder if his first season as head coach was just a product of us finally adding some quality veteran players that belong in the league to play alongside Kemba like Big Al, Neal, Tolliver and CDR without mentioning McBob’s contract year resurgence. Even then we faltered through the first half of the season and only began to win on the heels of Big Al playing out his mind with the rest of the mediocre teams opting to tank for the Wiggins-Jabari-Embiid sweepstakes instead of inevitably getting swept by the LeBron led Heat.

That season may have been the end of my confidence in this franchise. So obvious to me at the time that the success was a charade and just delaying the inevitable recognition of the treadmill.

[catch20two]

Only in darkness can you see the light. Clifford has been holding this team back for years, not just the last two seasons.

It’s fair to wonder if his first season as head coach was just a product of us finally adding some quality veteran players that belong in the league to play alongside Kemba like Big Al, Neal, Tolliver and CDR without mentioning McBob’s contract year resurgence. Even then we faltered through the first half of the season and only began to win on the heels of Big Al playing out his mind with the rest of the mediocre teams opting to tank for the Wiggins-Jabari-Embiid sweepstakes instead of inevitably getting swept by the LeBron led Heat.

That season may have been the end of my confidence in this franchise. So obvious to me at the time that the success was a charade and just delaying the inevitable recognition of the treadmill.

You and Braggins were saying it since back then. I tried to give him some optimism until after the second season.

[TheKingofSting]

Read on Twitter

A little too late for that coach, see ya!

#CliffordMustGo


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[BeesWax]

A lot of people have been calling for this guys head for forever. I went back to the last pages of the old Cliff thread and the whole argument was the exact same from years ago. How is he still in charge of this team. There was a reference to him and Cho not being on the same page which makes me think that is where all these win now bad picks and draft moves come from. Cliff in Jordans ear fighting Cho the whole time.