Leap Year - The Kemba Walker Thread III

[JDR720]

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[catch20two]

I think people defend Cho because nobody is sure of what moves were his and what were forced on him. I think Cliff has MJs ear and that he forced some of this on the team thinking like a coach, short term. I want to see if he could be successful given the freedom to build a team without to much influence.

It’s natural for a GM to work in conjunction with what the head coach need and wants but it’s up to the GM to stand firm and make the best decision for the team regardless of what anyone else thinks if he’s opposed to it. If Cho didn’t like Clifford’s views he could’ve easily fired him or pushed that narrative to MJ. Cho was Clifford’s boss, not the other way around.

At the end of the day Cho was under contract. No ultimatum or opinion should’ve derived him from making the right moves because he was going to get paid no matter what.

But even so after all of that being said the truth of the matter is that in this current state we’re financially hampered and that’s more of Cho’s fault than anyone else.

MJ is in charge in the end and if Cliff has his ear then this team is doomed until he is gone. Cho can override Cliff but not MJ so I think he lost a lot of the battles because the owner sided the other way. Maybe if we get a GM that has more sway with MJ than Cliff does we will things start to swing back.

So we won't really know if the decisions were his fault or if they were MJ forcing him to make moves at the request of Cliff. If the later is the case then the problem won't go away until our GM has more sway.

100% agree that we won’t get better until Clifford is gone. I wouldn’t be surprised if Clifford is treating Monk this way because he wanted Mitchell and Cho chose Monk. The same way Clifford opted to bench Lamb after Cho chose to extend him. I think Clifford shows his ass a lot via power struggles. He’s enough of a stubborn shmuck to do it.

[yosemiteben]

People aren't exactly rushing to Cho's defense. Just saying that we don't really know how much freedom he had to make moves that he wanted, and the fact that we routinely sold picks (something that wouldn't benefit the GM from a roster building perspective) seems to weigh in favor of greater ownership involvement.

[MasterIchiro]

It's unbelievable that the whole forum used game threads two seasons in a row to gang bang a player who will soon become the all-time leading scorer in franchise history. Cho was unable to give him a sidekick. He turned Ben Gordon's contract into a worse one. It was unforgivable.

[euphorbus]

With time running out on Mr. Walker's contract, if the team brings in a new coach to revamp both the offense and the defense, it would help keep him in Charlotte. He already stated he wants to remain here. Give him some incentive to do so.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

With time running out on Mr. Walker's contract, if the team brings in a new coach to revamp both the offense and the defense, it would help keep him in Charlotte. He already stated he wants to remain here. Give him some incentive to do so.

This to me is the most interesting point on whether or not Cliff will be back. The team can roll with Cliff one more year and have him potentially walking the same year Kemba goes into free agency ... or they can give Kemba a new coach next year and hope that things work out for the best relationship wise. Either way there are some serious potential negatives.

[Hornet Mania]

I think if we show Kemba the money than he stays. He seems like a loyal guy from every indication he's given, he seems to enjoy his role of leader/star and as a nice bonus he has never threatened to leave because of the losing. If we put the max on the table Kemba will likely sign regardless of who we choose to coach the team, it would be very short-sighted to retain Cliff just to please Kemba.

[Robot Rock]

I still believe Cliff is here in part because of Kemba. Kemba has more control over things than some people realize. I don't really mind that because whatever keeps Kemba happy in the 704 is good for everybody, but I feel like Kemba likes Cliff and that's a big reason (not the only reason, but one) that he stays here.

[catch20two]

I don’t think Kemba has any more pull here in Charlotte as the leader of the team than any second to third fiddle star for any other team. They were able to sign Al Jefferson and Michael Carter-Williams because of the relationship they’ve built with Kemba’s agent over the years. Most trades and signings around the NBA are based on relationships.

With that said I don’t think Clifford remaining head coach is something that Kemba has power over the same way he didn’t have any say so in the trade rumors involving himself.

Kemba just isn’t the type of player to stir the pot and cause controversy. He won’t make a fuss about it if Clifford is fired the same way he won’t make a fuss about it if he stays on board. He rolls with the punches. He’s about as humble of a star player you’ll come across in today’s NBA.

[JDR720]

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[Vanderbilt_Grad]

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So Kemba should be playing more with Lamb? Who would have though?

[catch20two]

So Kemba should be playing more with Lamb? Who would have thought?

One of the most annoying and false things to continuously read on this board is when people say *insert scrub* “is a better fit in the starting lineup next to Kemba” than Lamb. People even think Treveon Graham is a better fit next to Kemba than Lamb lol. It’s like they ignore the numbers for whatever biased reasoning. Kemba and Lamb have been playing well off each other for a while now and the offense clicks at an way above average level with the two of them playing together.

#ButClifford #AndMostOfUs

#CliffordMustGo

[yosemiteben]

Hey catch - what reason have folks been giving for keeping Lamb with the second unit? Was it just that *insert scrub* is a better fit?

[JDR720]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/249257/Kemba-Walker-Put-Himself-Back-Onto-Charlottes-Draft-Board-With-Tourney-Play

[catch20two]

Hey catch - what reason have folks been giving for keeping Lamb with the second unit? Was it just that *insert scrub* is a better fit?

There’s been several reasonings but they’re all moot to me. If it isn’t because we need Lamb’s scoring in the 2nd unit then it’s...Kemba and Lamb are both too iso-heavy to play well together...Lamb isn’t a good enough 3pt shooter...Lamb isn’t a good enough defender...Lamb isn’t consistent...blah blah blah. All of that conjecture is faulty thinking or false. Obviously what we’re doing and what some of you agree with isn’t working.

[catch20two]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/249257/Kemba-Walker-Put-Himself-Back-Onto-Charlottes-Draft-Board-With-Tourney-Play

The best player in franchise history was originally a afterthought and was drafted after Biyombo lol. Oh and most of the “knowledgeable” fanbase considered him to be only a good 6th man at best.

[yosemiteben]

Hey catch - what reason have folks been giving for keeping Lamb with the second unit? Was it just that *insert scrub* is a better fit?

There’s been several reasonings but they’re all moot to me. If it isn’t because we need Lamb’s scoring in the 2nd unit then it’s...Kemba and Lamb are both too iso-heavy to play well together...Lamb isn’t a good enough 3pt shooter...Lamb isn’t a good enough defender...Lamb isn’t consistent...blah blah blah. All of that conjecture is faulty thinking or false. Obviously what we’re doing and what some of you agree with isn’t working.

Cool.

What about reasons to keep Lamb with the second unit because of things he's good at?

[catch20two]

Hey catch - what reason have folks been giving for keeping Lamb with the second unit? Was it just that *insert scrub* is a better fit?

There’s been several reasonings but they’re all moot to me. If it isn’t because we need Lamb’s scoring in the 2nd unit then it’s...Kemba and Lamb are both too iso-heavy to play well together...Lamb isn’t a good enough 3pt shooter...Lamb isn’t a good enough defender...Lamb isn’t consistent...blah blah blah. All of that conjecture is faulty thinking or false. Obviously what we’re doing and what some of you agree with isn’t working.

Cool.

What about reasons to keep Lamb with the second unit because of things he's good at?

It’s already answered in the quotables. I could give that same reasoning to why each team in the NBA should have their 2nd best scorer coming off the bench with their second unit lol but that don’t mean that it’ll be right or benefit those teams.

[yosemiteben]

But it would mean that someone made an argument other than criticizing Lamb and just saying *insert scrub here* is a better fit though, which was my point.

I would have loved to start Lamb over MKG, but the bench + MKG would have been even worse than it already was offensively. I don't think moving Batum to the bench would have been a good solution either.

It wasn't "Lamb sucks", it was "our bench sucks and taking Lamb out of it is not a good idea."

[yosemiteben]

Kemba thread so I'll move to Lamb thread.