The TJ Warren Thread!

[Saberestar]

I gotta say Im really disappointed in Warren. I thought he'd be a pretty good NBA player but it's about time to write him off. Just way too bad defensively to be a contributor in this league.

Maybe I'll give him one more season but after that I'm all out on Warren.

Honestly i don't believe the Suns have drafted this poorly over the years. Every single guy they've drafted the last decade has been a horrendous defender. Something is wrong internally with this organization.

I think they need to clean house with their roster and staff and just start completely from scratch at this point.

#notsureifserious.

Yeah I mean I'm a huge TJ fan. I really, really thought he'd figure out a way to be a solid NBA player but he just hasn't been able to turn the corner. Grateful for how amazing he was at State. Easily one of the greatest scorers in ACC history. But his game just hasn't translated to the NBA. He needs to learn how to shoot threes and become at least a passable defender or he's just going to be another guy stuck on losing teams his whole career.

If he is not a "solid NBA player" I do not know who can be that for you.

He was a #14 pick in the draft, so he has exceeded expectations. He is getting better every single year and I do not think he is done improving.

[garrick]

I don't know about similar but plenty of forwards, some who were mostly interior scorers and not necessarily ball dominant guys have won it...Kevin McHale won it twice, scoring between 18-20 ppg, didn't shoot 3s. Cliff Robinson won it with about 19ppg while shooting like 47% from 2 and 25% from 3.

Danny Manning was pretty much an mid range crafty scorer who might be the most like TJ who won it...and that was with us. Two of our other winners were forwards, Rodney Rogers and Eddie Johnson, though they both hit the 3 in those years (oddly enough, neither were great career 3 pt shooters, but won it with us).

Looking back at some of these past winners, Detlef Schrempf who won it, one year in his career averaged 19, 9.5 and 6 apg. I remember him being really good but that's crazy assist numbers for a forward.

Ultimately the criteria to win 6th moy usually comes down to being on SO good of a team, one of the best in the league, that their sixth man is really good too...and is a starter caliber player. You have seen Crawford and Lou win it more recently, and think of those types...or Manu, but typically it usually just comes down to being a really good reserve, or at least it used it.

About TJ's 3 pt shooting...looking at these numbers of our past winners, particularly EJ and Rodney, I could see they had their best 3pt % years with us those years, and they also had more attempts.

It reminded me of the most recent podcast in the pod thread with David Griffin talking about D'Antoni and the Suns...and saying that players will play with their most confidence and best offensively under D'Antoni because he will NEVER pull them for taking a bad 3, but he will ALWAYS pull them if they don't take an open 3, and it leads to players playing with a kind of fearlessness and confidence offensively that you don't usually see.

I have a feeling if TJ was playing for D'Antoni or Cotton, he would probably be shooting more and a lot better % from 3.

Awesome post! Thanks for the response and perspective. I do remember Rogers and Robinson from the early days of my NBA fandom (I was a late bloomer in college) so when you put it that way it's easier for me to see TJ in that way. I was trying to picture him as the leader of a great second unit or a microwave-off-the-bench type and it didn't quite jive. But I can totally see him as the 6th-best guy (or at least the 3rd-best forward) on a really good team.

And often you can be better than the 6th best player. Antawn Jamison won it with the Mavs and had the second highest PER (Nash was 3rd that year on that team)..then Odom won it with the Lakers and was no worse than their 3rd best player....and Harden, and Ginobili. https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/smoy.html

I agree, Triano is way too quick to pull players after a bad play and I think it hurts confidence in some players. While I don't think rewarding bad play is good there has to be a balance and I feel lately he's been way too quick to substitute someone after a dumb foul or bad shot.

I also think he doesn't hold Booker accountable as much as the other players, I can understand why he wouldn't as he is the sole go to scorer but Booker does routinely give up on defensive plays or blows assignments.

[lilfishi22]

I gotta say Im really disappointed in Warren. I thought he'd be a pretty good NBA player but it's about time to write him off. Just way too bad defensively to be a contributor in this league.

Maybe I'll give him one more season but after that I'm all out on Warren.

Honestly i don't believe the Suns have drafted this poorly over the years. Every single guy they've drafted the last decade has been a horrendous defender. Something is wrong internally with this organization.

I think they need to clean house with their roster and staff and just start completely from scratch at this point.

He's not the most complete player but I think most teams would be real happy with a 24 year old year old drafted at the end of the lottery averaging 20/5 while shooting .50FG%. I too wish he was a better defender, had a 3PT shot or a better shot creator but I take it as who he is now and I'm OK with him with us now. It might be true that he's probably not a starter on an elite team but we're so far from that right now, it doesn't really matter if he is or isn't.

He's no late lotto stars like Donovan Mitchell or Devin Booker but he's about as good as they come for where he was picked and the expectations coming out of the draft.

[HoopsMalone]

#notsureifserious.

Yeah I mean I'm a huge TJ fan. I really, really thought he'd figure out a way to be a solid NBA player but he just hasn't been able to turn the corner. Grateful for how amazing he was at State. Easily one of the greatest scorers in ACC history. But his game just hasn't translated to the NBA. He needs to learn how to shoot threes and become at least a passable defender or he's just going to be another guy stuck on losing teams his whole career.

If he is not a "solid NBA player" I do not know who can be that for you.

He was a #14 pick in the draft, so he has exceeded expectations. He is getting better every single year and I do not think he is done improving.

He's a decent offensive player but his defense is so bad that it drags him down to borderline rotation player. I'm not going to pretend i watch a ton of Suns games, but knowing TJ I really doubt it's due to lack of effort. He just doesnt appear to have the tools to defend his position in the NBA.

Has he been playing more of the 3 or 4 for you guys?

[Saberestar]

Yeah I mean I'm a huge TJ fan. I really, really thought he'd figure out a way to be a solid NBA player but he just hasn't been able to turn the corner. Grateful for how amazing he was at State. Easily one of the greatest scorers in ACC history. But his game just hasn't translated to the NBA. He needs to learn how to shoot threes and become at least a passable defender or he's just going to be another guy stuck on losing teams his whole career.

If he is not a "solid NBA player" I do not know who can be that for you.

He was a #14 pick in the draft, so he has exceeded expectations. He is getting better every single year and I do not think he is done improving.

He's a decent offensive player but his defense is so bad that it drags him down to borderline rotation player. I'm not going to pretend i watch a ton of Suns games, but knowing TJ I really doubt it's due to lack of effort. He just doesnt appear to have the tools to defend his position in the NBA.

Has he been playing more of the 3 or 4 for you guys?

Yeah, Kaminsky for example is better.

[lilfishi22]

Yeah I mean I'm a huge TJ fan. I really, really thought he'd figure out a way to be a solid NBA player but he just hasn't been able to turn the corner. Grateful for how amazing he was at State. Easily one of the greatest scorers in ACC history. But his game just hasn't translated to the NBA. He needs to learn how to shoot threes and become at least a passable defender or he's just going to be another guy stuck on losing teams his whole career.

If he is not a "solid NBA player" I do not know who can be that for you.

He was a #14 pick in the draft, so he has exceeded expectations. He is getting better every single year and I do not think he is done improving.

He's a decent offensive player but his defense is so bad that it drags him down to borderline rotation player. I'm not going to pretend i watch a ton of Suns games, but knowing TJ I really doubt it's due to lack of effort. He just doesnt appear to have the tools to defend his position in the NBA.

Has he been playing more of the 3 or 4 for you guys?

It's definitely not at the level where you can play him long periods in the playoffs without better defensive help but we're not even close to there yet so it's not a huge problem especially when he's still chipping at 20ppg at a good rate. He tries but I don't think anticipation, fundamentals and lateral quickness is his strong suit since he does have decent length. He plays mostly 3 but in certain small ball lineups, he does play the 3/4 with Jackson the court.

[Revived]

I think him refusing to shoot 3s hurts the team so much. Even if he doesn’t make it, him just refusing to take that kills the spacing.

I noticed at least twice yesterday when Booker/Payton found Warren open on the 3pt line and then Warren either drove into traffic and missed or passed to someone else instead of shooting it and Booker/Payton was visibly frustrated.

[DaleyBlind]

TJ better get used to the 6th man role, cause Jackson is coming for his spot.

[Saberestar]

TJ better get used to the 6th man role, cause Jackson is coming for his spot.

I am pretty sure that they are gonna start together for the rest of the season. We have a big hole at PF and I think Jackson is better defending the post than Bender and Chriss.

That will give us better opportunities on offense too with more transition buckets and more players able to handle the ball.

I would like to watch a lineup of Elfrid, Book, Josh, Warren and Bender a good number of minutes per game.

[Saberestar]

Watch on YouTube

[HoopsMalone]

RIP Girlfriending used to be huge at NC State back in the day. One Student actually started a diet called "RIP Girlfriend" which immediately spread amongst the student body like wildfire. The content of the diet isnt appropriate for this board.

I tracked down the RIP GIRLFRIEND 2.0 diet but was not able to find the original.

If anyone is interested just PM me

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[Preacherpj]

He's a solid player on a team without many of them.

I think his best role on a good team is probably as a 6th man coming off the bench for about 20 MPG where he can get some instant offense. The contract makes sense, he's still young, he can absolutely score. I don't see the issue given he's not making superstar money.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[bigfoot]

Read on Twitter

I thought tattoos where contact injuries ??!

[Revived]

He's a solid player on a team without many of them.

I think his best role on a good team is probably as a 6th man coming off the bench for about 20 MPG where he can get some instant offense. The contract makes sense, he's still young, he can absolutely score. I don't see the issue given he's not making superstar money.

His contract is good given his production but his durability is concerning.

[Revived]

TJ better get used to the 6th man role, cause Jackson is coming for his spot.

He should already have it.

[Revived]

Yeah I mean I'm a huge TJ fan. I really, really thought he'd figure out a way to be a solid NBA player but he just hasn't been able to turn the corner. Grateful for how amazing he was at State. Easily one of the greatest scorers in ACC history. But his game just hasn't translated to the NBA. He needs to learn how to shoot threes and become at least a passable defender or he's just going to be another guy stuck on losing teams his whole career.

If he is not a "solid NBA player" I do not know who can be that for you.

He was a #14 pick in the draft, so he has exceeded expectations. He is getting better every single year and I do not think he is done improving.

He's a decent offensive player but his defense is so bad that it drags him down to borderline rotation player. I'm not going to pretend i watch a ton of Suns games, but knowing TJ I really doubt it's due to lack of effort. He just doesnt appear to have the tools to defend his position in the NBA.

Has he been playing more of the 3 or 4 for you guys?

Even with his defensive issues, he’s still a solid NBA player overall because of his offense.

[DaleyBlind]

He really needs to get a 3pt shot, should be working on it all the time.

[Revived]

I'm a big TJs supporter and didn't liked the idea to bench him in favor of Jackson but there is something wrong with our starting lineup. They always start the game terrible. Since it is a good time for experimenting maybe we really should try to start JJ and bring TJ from the bench? It looks like Warren needs some time to warm up while JJ plays with great energy from the first second he steps on the floor.

Since this is a season for experimenting, yes they should give this a shot once Warren returns from injury.