Pats legacy after Super Bowl 52

[XDevilBoiX]

Add another reason why I really hate the Pats more. Dam McDonalds

[afox]

Greatest dynasty ever..Team of the decade in back to back decades...Never been done...SF is close but if George Seifert can step in and win the last 2, is the coach really that important(no one had ever seen the WC offense before)...The Patriots have had to define and redefine themselves over a longer period...No team has won more with less than the Patriots and Brady...16 seasons for Brady..He was hurt the one...Missed playoffs once...15 playoffs, 12 AFC title games, 8 big ones and five wins...He's been more succesful than all but maybe a couple FRANCHISES!...What he just did at 40 is remarkable and last SB at 39...Here's another thought...Only the Giants and Pitt have won 2 Super Bowls during the Patriots run...And one of Pitt's was the year Brady was hurt...Peyton won 2, but had to switch teams...So while they have dominated, only one other team has won 2, with Brady healthy...Thats crazy!...All the talent that has been in this league the last 20 years...QB's included, And no one could even mount a challenge...Outside of the 2 SB runs, Eli was one and done, any other time he made the playoffs...So they were exceptions, to what that team has actually been...The AP team of the decade, last decade, was the 2007 Patriots(one of their "failed seasons"). Their disappointment just happens to be the only undefeated season at 16-0.. They hung a banner anyway...Flat domination by the Patriots for 17 years...smh...We'll never see anything like this again..

[afox]

Yeah, it was one helluva run.

is...MF....is

[XDevilBoiX]

Yep they are the greatest cheating dynasty team ever. Of course we won’t see any other teamS cheat like them ever

[afox]

Yep they are the greatest cheating dynasty team ever. Of course we won’t see any other teamS cheat like them ever

Jerry Rice using stickum is pretty big....But I know taping signals FROM THE WRONG LOCATION is the worst, even though Jimmy Johnson said everyone did this....The rule had only been in effect for a year...And not having that xtra pound of pressure in the football(never proven)....Sooo bad...So bad they had never kept actual records before of the measurements...I doubt anyone even knew there was an air requirement before all that bs went down...When we were kids, you just pumped 'em up until they felt good....You're worse than CNN...I know it helps you sleep at night though...But let's not talk about practically the whole legion of whom? using performance enhancers...Or Washington and Dallas circumventing the salary cap...Or just the fact that football players by nature, are cheaters...Every play someone breaks the rules...So come on down off your box...

[Otis Driftwood]

Arguably the greatest dynasty ever... although the 60's Packers might have something to say about it. One cannot argue maintaining the level of competitiveness the Patriots have particularly in the Free Agency era.

Wish my team knew how to do that.

[bluejerseyjinx]

Arguably the greatest dynasty ever... although the 60's Packers might have something to say about it. One cannot argue maintaining the level of competitiveness the Patriots have particularly in the Free Agency era.

Wish my team knew how to do that.

I've been catching up today. I saw your previous post earlier defending Bradshaw. Its hard to get into these debates sometimes. Most of the poster's in here don't understand how the league was back in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Rules were different, defenses dominated and had the advantage, QB's were only throwing 16 - 24 passes a game (instead of 40 - 60 we are seeing today) in a run dominated league where everyone was running a two back system with a full back and sometimes two TE's. TE's are used so much differently today. And to top it all off, careers where much shorter back then. Like you, it bothers me when this younger generation claims the likes of a Brady, Manning, Brees, etc., as greatest of all time and uses the stats as its major comparison. I'm like you, I love the eye test to evaluate players to make a final decision on how I feel about them. Guys like us can't help wondering with receivers like Swann and Stallworth for the Steelers, Hill and Pearson for the Cowboys, etc., why QB's like Bradshaw and Staubach would still be in all these discussions today if the playing field was completely even. Oh, by the way, did Bradshaw ever spell cat correctly after Hollywood Henderson spotted him the c and the t?

[Otis Driftwood]

I've been catching up today. I saw your previous post earlier defending Bradshaw. Its hard to get into these debates sometimes. Most of the poster's in here don't understand how the league was back in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Rules were different, defenses dominated and had the advantage, QB's were only throwing 16 - 24 passes a game (instead of 40 - 60 we are seeing today) in a run dominated league where everyone was running a two back system with a full back and sometimes two TE's. TE's are used so much differently today. And to top it all off, careers where much shorter back then. Like you, it bothers me when this younger generation claims the likes of a Brady, Manning, Brees, etc., as greatest of all time and uses the stats as its major comparison. I'm like you, I love the eye test to evaluate players to make a final decision on how I feel about them. Guys like us can't help wondering with receivers like Swann and Stallworth for the Steelers, Hill and Pearson for the Cowboys, etc., why QB's like Bradshaw and Staubach would still be in all these discussions today if the playing field was completely even. Oh, by the way, did Bradshaw ever spell cat correctly after Hollywood Henderson spotted him the c and the t?

Can you imagine guys like Staubach, Bradshaw, Stabler, Griese and Tarkenton in today's offenses with today's rules? Or for that matter, guys like Swann, Stallworth, Pearson, Branch, Biletnikoff, Warfield and Rashad against these defensive schemes?

Good lord.

[bluejerseyjinx]

I've been catching up today. I saw your previous post earlier defending Bradshaw. Its hard to get into these debates sometimes. Most of the poster's in here don't understand how the league was back in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Rules were different, defenses dominated and had the advantage, QB's were only throwing 16 - 24 passes a game (instead of 40 - 60 we are seeing today) in a run dominated league where everyone was running a two back system with a full back and sometimes two TE's. TE's are used so much differently today. And to top it all off, careers where much shorter back then. Like you, it bothers me when this younger generation claims the likes of a Brady, Manning, Brees, etc., as greatest of all time and uses the stats as its major comparison. I'm like you, I love the eye test to evaluate players to make a final decision on how I feel about them. Guys like us can't help wondering with receivers like Swann and Stallworth for the Steelers, Hill and Pearson for the Cowboys, etc., why QB's like Bradshaw and Staubach would still be in all these discussions today if the playing field was completely even. Oh, by the way, did Bradshaw ever spell cat correctly after Hollywood Henderson spotted him the c and the t?

Can you imagine guys like Staubach, Bradshaw, Stabler, Griese and Tarkenton in today's offenses with today's rules? Or for that matter, guys like Swann, Stallworth, Pearson, Branch, Biletnikoff, Warfield and Rashad against these defensive schemes?

Good lord.

I'm currently having a brain cramp, but who was the QB way back that played that played in 10 straight NFL championship games and won 6 or 7 of them?

[Otis Driftwood]

I've been catching up today. I saw your previous post earlier defending Bradshaw. Its hard to get into these debates sometimes. Most of the poster's in here don't understand how the league was back in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Rules were different, defenses dominated and had the advantage, QB's were only throwing 16 - 24 passes a game (instead of 40 - 60 we are seeing today) in a run dominated league where everyone was running a two back system with a full back and sometimes two TE's. TE's are used so much differently today. And to top it all off, careers where much shorter back then. Like you, it bothers me when this younger generation claims the likes of a Brady, Manning, Brees, etc., as greatest of all time and uses the stats as its major comparison. I'm like you, I love the eye test to evaluate players to make a final decision on how I feel about them. Guys like us can't help wondering with receivers like Swann and Stallworth for the Steelers, Hill and Pearson for the Cowboys, etc., why QB's like Bradshaw and Staubach would still be in all these discussions today if the playing field was completely even. Oh, by the way, did Bradshaw ever spell cat correctly after Hollywood Henderson spotted him the c and the t?

Can you imagine guys like Staubach, Bradshaw, Stabler, Griese and Tarkenton in today's offenses with today's rules? Or for that matter, guys like Swann, Stallworth, Pearson, Branch, Biletnikoff, Warfield and Rashad against these defensive schemes?

Good lord.

I'm currently having a brain cramp, but who was the QB way back that played that played in 10 straight NFL championship games and won 6 or 7 of them?

Otto Graham

[bluejerseyjinx]

Can you imagine guys like Staubach, Bradshaw, Stabler, Griese and Tarkenton in today's offenses with today's rules? Or for that matter, guys like Swann, Stallworth, Pearson, Branch, Biletnikoff, Warfield and Rashad against these defensive schemes?

Good lord.

I'm currently having a brain cramp, but who was the QB way back that played that played in 10 straight NFL championship games and won 6 or 7 of them?

Otto Graham

So let's act like Patriot fans for a bit and say its not stats that is the most important in determining greatest of all time. Its about being accomplished. And no one can argue at all that Brady, by far, is the most accomplished MODERN DAY QB or generational in NFL history. If you compare Brady on that merit alone, then wouldn't Otto Graham win hands down if you make that comparison?

[afox]

I'm currently having a brain cramp, but who was the QB way back that played that played in 10 straight NFL championship games and won 6 or 7 of them?

Otto Graham

So let's act like Patriot fans for a bit and say its not stats that is the most important in determining greatest of all time. Its about being accomplished. And no one can argue at all that Brady, by far, is the most accomplished MODERN DAY QB or generational in NFL history. If you compare Brady on that merit alone, then wouldn't Otto Graham win hands down if you make that comparison?

4 of Graham's 7 were in the All-American Football League....The other 3 were in the NFL...Do the AFL titles count?...How about USFL?...CFL? I see.. Given that it was better than 60 years ago too....You're reaching...But we can just keep it to NFL titles if you like...Starr has 5... 4 straight for Graham in the AAFL... Back to back in the NFL .. And it's both, stats and accomplishments, that define greatness in any sport...

[XDevilBoiX]

Yep they are the greatest cheating dynasty team ever. Of course we won’t see any other teamS cheat like them ever

Jerry Rice using stickum is pretty big....But I know taping signals FROM THE WRONG LOCATION is the worst, even though Jimmy Johnson said everyone did this....The rule had only been in effect for a year...And not having that xtra pound of pressure in the football(never proven)....Sooo bad...So bad they had never kept actual records before of the measurements...I doubt anyone even knew there was an air requirement before all that bs went down...When we were kids, you just pumped 'em up until they felt good....You're worse than CNN...I know it helps you sleep at night though...But let's not talk about practically the whole legion of whom? using performance enhancers...Or Washington and Dallas circumventing the salary cap...Or just the fact that football players by nature, are cheaters...Every play someone breaks the rules...So come on down off your box...

You are probably right that everyone cheated in some ways but they got caught, fined and suspended. That says a lot to me that what they did was wrong. Other teams or players didn’t get caught, fined or suspended.

[jonjames]

History says this is "IT". The run is over. Quarterbacks dont play like MVP's beyond 40. The end is near. I don't expect them to make it back next year, because history says they won't.

ok max kellerman

Am I wrong? Teams that lose the SB typically don't make it back the next year. Call it a "Hangover"... or whatever. But history also says QB's over 40 decline in play. They don't get better at that age.

lol

[wco81]

Yeah lets revisit this.

Some people said Bellichek is the greatest coach of all sports in the modern era, after winning the 6th SB in 9 visits.

I'm not even sure he's the greatest NFL coach of all time.

He got 6 SB wins by what, an average of 3-4 points margin?

He took over the Patriots at the right time, with parity making it easier to be competitive. The Rams were horrible just 2 years ago.

Now Kraft might have willingly spent whatever it took to get the team to the top but he didn't have to. One big help was the franchise QB willing to take a lot less than what a franchise QB could make.

Since the advent of these QB contracts over $20 million for ANY starter, teams with QBs on these huge contracts haven't won the SB. Rodgers and Wilson won their SBs on their rookie deals.

Really the MVP of the Patriots isn't Brady or Bellichek but Giselle, who is the real breadwinner, allowing Tom to take a lot less in compensation.

[Cactus Jack]

ok max kellerman

Am I wrong? Teams that lose the SB typically don't make it back the next year. Call it a "Hangover"... or whatever. But history also says QB's over 40 decline in play. They don't get better at that age.

lol

Nothing I said then is inaccurate. Sure, I was wrong. They made it back & won. But, history before said otherwise.

New England really is the exception here. IIRC this is the first time after losing a Super Bowl that they themselves made it back the following season. So, I don't see how you can fault me for predicting otherwise.

[Cactus Jack]

Since the advent of these QB contracts over $20 million for ANY starter, teams with QBs on these huge contracts haven't won the SB. Rodgers and Wilson won their SBs on their rookie deals.

Really the MVP of the Patriots isn't Brady or Bellichek but Giselle, who is the real breadwinner, allowing Tom to take a lot less in compensation.

Him taking less money gets overblown imo. Brady still takes up a large chunk of New England's Cap (12% in 2018). Yes, he makes less than market value (15%- League Avg). But, he still made over 20 Million this past season. Even if he made 30 Million (Among the highest paid), they'd still likely win. He's just that good. Same goes for Belichick. They'd find a way.


https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

[therealbig3]

Yep they are the greatest cheating dynasty team ever. Of course we won’t see any other teamS cheat like them ever

Jerry Rice using stickum is pretty big....But I know taping signals FROM THE WRONG LOCATION is the worst, even though Jimmy Johnson said everyone did this....The rule had only been in effect for a year...And not having that xtra pound of pressure in the football(never proven)....Sooo bad...So bad they had never kept actual records before of the measurements...I doubt anyone even knew there was an air requirement before all that bs went down...When we were kids, you just pumped 'em up until they felt good....You're worse than CNN...I know it helps you sleep at night though...But let's not talk about practically the whole legion of whom? using performance enhancers...Or Washington and Dallas circumventing the salary cap...Or just the fact that football players by nature, are cheaters...Every play someone breaks the rules...So come on down off your box...

You are probably right that everyone cheated in some ways but they got caught, fined and suspended. That says a lot to me that what they did was wrong. Other teams or players didn’t get caught, fined or suspended.

It tells me that the NFL is extremely selective in terms of who they decide to punish.

There are links all over the place, anything you want to point to that the Patriots did HAS been done by other teams, and they HAVE been caught, the NFL and fans just chose not to care about it.

The Patriots just have a target on their back and get screwed over the most.

[therealbig3]

Since the advent of these QB contracts over $20 million for ANY starter, teams with QBs on these huge contracts haven't won the SB. Rodgers and Wilson won their SBs on their rookie deals.

Really the MVP of the Patriots isn't Brady or Bellichek but Giselle, who is the real breadwinner, allowing Tom to take a lot less in compensation.

Him taking less money gets overblown imo. Brady still takes up a large chunk of New England's Cap (12% in 2018). Yes, he makes less than market value (15%- League Avg). But, he still made over 20 Million this past season. Even if he made 30 Million (Among the highest paid), they'd still likely win. He's just that good. Same goes for Belichick. They'd find a way.

Easy to say they'd just find a way, but like someone else pointed out, they've barely won in every single SB. If Brady decided to make what he's actually worth, the Patriots could easily have not made as many SBs and could easily have not won their last 3, because that extra 4-8 million that was spent on the defense or the O-line or the special teams went to Brady instead, and they don't make that one key play that wins them all of these close games. And it hasn't just been SBs, they've been in some really close calls throughout their playoff runs.

[soxfan2003]

Patriots thanks to Brady being the best football player of all time and BB being an excellent coach/gm combo has been in position to win it all nearly every year Brady has played. End results often determined by injuries or lack of injuries or weird bounces for or against the Patriots.

Brady and Edelman and some other players not trying to go for every dollar possible they can command helps out the Patriots. And then after a while, you get players willing to go to New England and play for X dollars but would only play for X+3 million for some other teams. Revis may be a good example of that.

A few years ago, I thought the NFL players were kind of nutty when they said Brady was the QB likely to win the most Super Bowl titles over the next decade but I didn't know who else to choose outside of perhaps Russell Wilson...I was wary of picking a Seattle qb since I was expecting cap problems there. Anyways at that point it didn't seem like he would play that much longer and clearly not play the full 10 years.

Now from this point forward maybe Mahomes would win that poll but it will be insane if Brady gets a 7th before he retires.

No doubt rules in place now in the NFL have helped Brady probably prolong his career but on the other hand, he is facing modestly bigger/stronger/faster athletes than Joe Montana face. And even though I think there is a chance Brady is on steroids or HGH like Manning may have done, I do think his training methods are different and helpful in reducing the chances of injury.