The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[Duke4life831]

I wanted to address Giles separately. You saw him at Duke and we did not. However the words coming out of Kings practices from his teammates have been glowing. Phrases of comparing him to Weber, saying he will be the best player from this draft. Also comments about his lateral quickness testing to the elite SF level and his high level passing ( why compared to Weber).

No one will really know until summer league but the reports give us some hope.

I hope Giles can come back and be the prospect he was in high school. His time at Duke I only heard great things when it comes to his personality and everything like that. I also thought his ability testing from the combine was a great sign of progression in his healing as well.

But at Duke a few things really showed in my opinion. He looked really hesitant because of the knees, every once in awhile you would see a smooth move, but the majority of the time it was hard to watch him move, very mechanical and stuff.

Also he was out of position a lot. It seemed like half the time he was running down the court with a hand up saying my bad, because he either made the wrong rotation defensively or offensively he wasn't where he needed to be.

So again I don't see a high BBIQ player yet. I think with him you gotta hope he can come close to the athlete he was before and that he can stay healthy. From there hopefully he can have confidence in his body again and play with the motor and intensity he played with in high school. Then from there build out his game.

Again your points are fair but if he was worrying about his knees that could/would get in the way of his on court processing.

I think the Kings have done this correctly in a way colleges could not. They have been focusing on building core strength and gaining confidence in the knees. From there, he has gradually been increasing his reps in practice and spending one on one time with ZBo.

What are the results? None of us know. We are hearing rumors in Sac but summer league will be the first time we really get to see. The rumors are tantalizing but as of now they are just rumors.

Oh I agree 100%. I dont know how much of him being out of position was a lack of awareness or just not having complete faith in his body. In High School he never came off as a really high BBIQ guy so Im going a lot on that.

I also agree that sitting him out for the year and doing nothing but rehabbing and working out is the best thing for him. He couldve done that in college but he really wanted to get out on the court since he hadnt played in so long, plus you cant spend as much time rehabbing and working out in college as you can in the NBA. So I think it was a great pick by SAC and I think theyre handling it perfectly. There is really no need to have him play right now, get him to peak physical shape before putting him into games. He is also going to be one of my most anticipated guys to watch in this upcoming SL.

[Sactowndog]

I wanted to address Giles separately. You saw him at Duke and we did not. However the words coming out of Kings practices from his teammates have been glowing. Phrases of comparing him to Weber, saying he will be the best player from this draft. Also comments about his lateral quickness testing to the elite SF level and his high level passing ( why compared to Weber).

No one will really know until summer league but the reports give us some hope.

I hope Giles can come back and be the prospect he was in high school. His time at Duke I only heard great things when it comes to his personality and everything like that. I also thought his ability testing from the combine was a great sign of progression in his healing as well.

But at Duke a few things really showed in my opinion. He looked really hesitant because of the knees, every once in awhile you would see a smooth move, but the majority of the time it was hard to watch him move, very mechanical and stuff.

Also he was out of position a lot. It seemed like half the time he was running down the court with a hand up saying my bad, because he either made the wrong rotation defensively or offensively he wasn't where he needed to be.

So again I don't see a high BBIQ player yet. I think with him you gotta hope he can come close to the athlete he was before and that he can stay healthy. From there hopefully he can have confidence in his body again and play with the motor and intensity he played with in high school. Then from there build out his game.

Giles is status hard to quantify due to his injuries. Wasting a 20th overall? 1st round pick on him is no biggie if he never plays or complete bust.

Some people hope Giles can return from injury and be elite like how Joel Embiid sat out and came back.

But Giles never showed dominance in college. And that’s scary. Until he’s able to dominant against real talent. All we have is high school highlights pre injury. That’s not enough

Hope kid can eventually play and show us what’s he’s got

Remember Kings players and executives see him everyday. While I don’t trust the front office I do tend to trust the players.

The rest of us will see in summer league.

[dautjazz]

I looked at the list before finishing your post and was just going to say if you look at the guys that did it 21 and under the list becomes much more exclusive. Ben Gordon is the only guy on there that didn't become a multi time all Star. Ben also did it less efficiently than Mitchell.

Either way no doubt what Mitchell is doing is very impressive.

Yeah, and of the other seven 21 or younger group to do this, 4 have a scoring title (MJ, Shaq, King, and Barry). It certainly wouldn't surprise me if Donovan were a 30ppg scorer in his prime.

Ya and I think Mitchell has a lot of things going for him when it comes to his scoring potential. As a rookie guard he is shooting 50% on 2pt shots and 65% at the rim and 84% at the line. To me those are tremendous building blocks going forward. Even if he never becomes a knock down 3pt shooter, he has a lot of scoring tools to fall back on. Also I really like his shooting form, add on his FT shooting, it appears he has all the potential you'd like for a guy to become a good 3pt shooter.

I'm not sure if he will ever become a 30ppg guy. That's not because I doubt his scoring potential, I'm just not sure he will ever be on a team where he is taking 20+ shots a game. But I think an efficient 25-27ppg scorer is definitely within his ceiling if he becomes a more consistent 3pt shooter.

Mitchell is actually a decent 3pt shooter though. He's shooting .351, which is 3rd among rookies taking more 3 attempts per game. Mitchell is on pace to have the most 3pt attempts and makes for a rookie in NBA history. Considering he is also the best offensive player and has the opposing team's best wing defender on him on most nights, that's damn impressive.

Also since December he hasn't had a month where his average hasn't been over 20ppg, and he's averaged 22.5ppg in this 38 game stretch. I think 30 is definitely obtainable.

[Sactowndog]

I hope Giles can come back and be the prospect he was in high school. His time at Duke I only heard great things when it comes to his personality and everything like that. I also thought his ability testing from the combine was a great sign of progression in his healing as well.

But at Duke a few things really showed in my opinion. He looked really hesitant because of the knees, every once in awhile you would see a smooth move, but the majority of the time it was hard to watch him move, very mechanical and stuff.

Also he was out of position a lot. It seemed like half the time he was running down the court with a hand up saying my bad, because he either made the wrong rotation defensively or offensively he wasn't where he needed to be.

So again I don't see a high BBIQ player yet. I think with him you gotta hope he can come close to the athlete he was before and that he can stay healthy. From there hopefully he can have confidence in his body again and play with the motor and intensity he played with in high school. Then from there build out his game.

Again your points are fair but if he was worrying about his knees that could/would get in the way of his on court processing.

I think the Kings have done this correctly in a way colleges could not. They have been focusing on building core strength and gaining confidence in the knees. From there, he has gradually been increasing his reps in practice and spending one on one time with ZBo.

What are the results? None of us know. We are hearing rumors in Sac but summer league will be the first time we really get to see. The rumors are tantalizing but as of now they are just rumors.

Oh I agree 100%. I dont know how much of him being out of position was a lack of awareness or just not having complete faith in his body. In High School he never came off as a really high BBIQ guy so Im going a lot on that.

I also agree that sitting him out for the year and doing nothing but rehabbing and working out is the best thing for him. He couldve done that in college but he really wanted to get out on the court since he hadnt played in so long, plus you cant spend as much time rehabbing and working out in college as you can in the NBA. So I think it was a great pick by SAC and I think theyre handling it perfectly. There is really no need to have him play right now, get him to peak physical shape before putting him into games. He is also going to be one of my most anticipated guys to watch in this upcoming SL.

Supposedly he is playing in practice and is an outstanding passer. The Kings need a good passing big man so again we wait and hope.

[Duke4life831]

Yeah, and of the other seven 21 or younger group to do this, 4 have a scoring title (MJ, Shaq, King, and Barry). It certainly wouldn't surprise me if Donovan were a 30ppg scorer in his prime.

Ya and I think Mitchell has a lot of things going for him when it comes to his scoring potential. As a rookie guard he is shooting 50% on 2pt shots and 65% at the rim and 84% at the line. To me those are tremendous building blocks going forward. Even if he never becomes a knock down 3pt shooter, he has a lot of scoring tools to fall back on. Also I really like his shooting form, add on his FT shooting, it appears he has all the potential you'd like for a guy to become a good 3pt shooter.

I'm not sure if he will ever become a 30ppg guy. That's not because I doubt his scoring potential, I'm just not sure he will ever be on a team where he is taking 20+ shots a game. But I think an efficient 25-27ppg scorer is definitely within his ceiling if he becomes a more consistent 3pt shooter.

Mitchell is actually a decent 3pt shooter though. He's shooting .351, which is 3rd among rookies taking more 3 attempts per game. Mitchell is on pace to have the most 3pt attempts and makes for a rookie in NBA history. Considering he is also the best offensive player and has the opposing team's best wing defender on him on most nights, that's damn impressive.

Oh ya dont get me wrong. Im not saying he is a bad 3pt shooter. When I say knock down 3pt shooter Im talking about the guys that get or at least flirt with 40% from 3 year in year out. I personally have him projected to be like a Damian Lillard type 3pt shooter, 36-38% most years. Maybe elite wouldve been a better way to describe it instead of knock down.

[dautjazz]

Ya and I think Mitchell has a lot of things going for him when it comes to his scoring potential. As a rookie guard he is shooting 50% on 2pt shots and 65% at the rim and 84% at the line. To me those are tremendous building blocks going forward. Even if he never becomes a knock down 3pt shooter, he has a lot of scoring tools to fall back on. Also I really like his shooting form, add on his FT shooting, it appears he has all the potential you'd like for a guy to become a good 3pt shooter.

I'm not sure if he will ever become a 30ppg guy. That's not because I doubt his scoring potential, I'm just not sure he will ever be on a team where he is taking 20+ shots a game. But I think an efficient 25-27ppg scorer is definitely within his ceiling if he becomes a more consistent 3pt shooter.

Mitchell is actually a decent 3pt shooter though. He's shooting .351, which is 3rd among rookies taking more 3 attempts per game. Mitchell is on pace to have the most 3pt attempts and makes for a rookie in NBA history. Considering he is also the best offensive player and has the opposing team's best wing defender on him on most nights, that's damn impressive.

Oh ya dont get me wrong. Im not saying he is a bad 3pt shooter. When I say knock down 3pt shooter Im talking about the guys that get or at least flirt with 40% from 3 year in year out. I personally have him projected to be like a Damian Lillard type 3pt shooter, 36-38% most years. Maybe elite wouldve been a better way to describe it instead of knock down.

Got it.

[Duke4life831]

So only about 20 games left in the season, unlike most years I think most fan bases are pretty happy with their draft picks. Out of the lotto the only fans that I have seen really talk about not liking their picks are Philly, NY, CHA and Detroit. Obviously a lot of the top 10 teams wouldve loved to have Mitchell but it seems like most fan bases are pretty happy with their picks.

Fultz is looking like a hard pill to swallow right now, Frank over DSJ is looking not the greatest and Monk/Kennard over Mitchell is looking rough. Obviously just 1 year in so a lot of this can change, but overall I dont think we see this many fan bases this happy with their lotto picks in 1 year.

[Jkam31]

I hope Giles can come back and be the prospect he was in high school. His time at Duke I only heard great things when it comes to his personality and everything like that. I also thought his ability testing from the combine was a great sign of progression in his healing as well.

But at Duke a few things really showed in my opinion. He looked really hesitant because of the knees, every once in awhile you would see a smooth move, but the majority of the time it was hard to watch him move, very mechanical and stuff.

Also he was out of position a lot. It seemed like half the time he was running down the court with a hand up saying my bad, because he either made the wrong rotation defensively or offensively he wasn't where he needed to be.

So again I don't see a high BBIQ player yet. I think with him you gotta hope he can come close to the athlete he was before and that he can stay healthy. From there hopefully he can have confidence in his body again and play with the motor and intensity he played with in high school. Then from there build out his game.

Giles is status hard to quantify due to his injuries. Wasting a 20th overall? 1st round pick on him is no biggie if he never plays or complete bust.

Some people hope Giles can return from injury and be elite like how Joel Embiid sat out and came back.

But Giles never showed dominance in college. And that’s scary. Until he’s able to dominant against real talent. All we have is high school highlights pre injury. That’s not enough

Hope kid can eventually play and show us what’s he’s got

Oh I agree that he was totally worth it at the 20 pick. And ya he had his injuries before college so its hard to tell if his average year in college was just due to recovering from his injuries plus the jump up in competition, or was he a guy that just dominated high school because he was bigger than everyone else. We dont know the answer to that one and I dont think we will ever really know because I doubt he ever gets back to the athlete he was in high school.

But ya as a team just starting their rebuild and him as your 3rd 1st round pick in the draft, I think he was a great selection. To me it was a very low risk high reward situation for SAC. Very curious on how he is going to look next year, with sitting out all year working out and rehabbing.

Why did duke let him come back 6 weeks after surgery? We could all tell he wasn’t ready so we didn’t see Giles last year just an injured man on the court


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[sfernald]

I assume you are talking Josh Jackson?

Just using the last 17 Games, yes Jackson is scoring 17 points a game on a low percentage. He’s taking 3.5 point shots a game shooting 24.5% from 3. He is averaging 1.7 assists 1.7 turnovers and .9 steals. Anyone can chuck up bad shots on a bad team.

Bogdanovich is averaging 12.7 on a high percentage. He shoots 41.1% from 3. Meanwhile he’s averaging 4.1 assists, 1.5 turnovers and 1.1 steals.

Yep purely looking at stats and hand picking them to favour your argument.

You clearly haven’t watched any Josh Jackson games if you are basing your argument purely off of stats. His defense is a mile ahead of Bogdan which you clearly failed to identify.

If your saying he’s miles ahead of Bogi you clearly haven’t watched many Kings games. Given Josh Jackson didn’t even make the rising stars game it’s a big stretch to suddenly claim he would be all rookie.

Now granted I haven’t watched much Suns basketball in the last 15 Games because I follow the Kings and one can stand only so much crappy basketball.

Any good highlight tapes out there of Josh Jackson in his last 15 games or so?

[Young gun 6]

Yep purely looking at stats and hand picking them to favour your argument.

You clearly haven’t watched any Josh Jackson games if you are basing your argument purely off of stats. His defense is a mile ahead of Bogdan which you clearly failed to identify.

If your saying he’s miles ahead of Bogi you clearly haven’t watched many Kings games. Given Josh Jackson didn’t even make the rising stars game it’s a big stretch to suddenly claim he would be all rookie.

Now granted I haven’t watched much Suns basketball in the last 15 Games because I follow the Kings and one can stand only so much crappy basketball.

Any good highlight tapes out there of Josh Jackson in his last 15 games or so?

There's one of his 29 point game:

Watch on YouTube

And a recent article of what he has been doing lately (for those guys who clearly haven't seen a thing of him the last 20 or so games):

https://fansided.com/2018/02/28/josh-jackson-suns-potential-progress/

[Sactowndog]

If your saying he’s miles ahead of Bogi you clearly haven’t watched many Kings games. Given Josh Jackson didn’t even make the rising stars game it’s a big stretch to suddenly claim he would be all rookie.

Now granted I haven’t watched much Suns basketball in the last 15 Games because I follow the Kings and one can stand only so much crappy basketball.

Any good highlight tapes out there of Josh Jackson in his last 15 games or so?

There's one of his 29 point game:

Watch on YouTube

And a recent article of what he has been doing lately (for those guys who clearly haven't seen a thing of him the last 20 or so games):

https://fansided.com/2018/02/28/josh-jackson-suns-potential-progress/

Against Memphis? Really? Guys I get wanting to feel good about your draft picks but you guys saw Skal drop 32 on your team during tank time last year and Skal spent time in the G league this year.

Jackson may be getting better but suddenly good games against tanking teams have to be looked at skeptically.

[Young gun 6]

Any good highlight tapes out there of Josh Jackson in his last 15 games or so?

There's one of his 29 point game:

Watch on YouTube

And a recent article of what he has been doing lately (for those guys who clearly haven't seen a thing of him the last 20 or so games):

https://fansided.com/2018/02/28/josh-jackson-suns-potential-progress/

Against Memphis? Really? Guys I get wanting to feel good about your draft picks but you guys saw Skal drop 32 on your team during tank time last year and Skal spent time in the G league this year.

Jackson may be getting better but suddenly good games against tanking teams have to be looked at skeptically.

You clearly have an agenda and have admitted to not even watching Jackson play so what is your point in replying. No one is going to take your posts seriously when you're just a blatant homer who for some reason has a vendetta against Jackson (usually an indicator of jealousy).

Stating you'd take Bogdan for the future (who's 25) ahead of Jackson is laughable. Outside of Sacramento i couldn't see too many agreeing with you on that one.

Jackson noteable games against better teams:
16/3/3/2/1 against Houston in 28 mins.
20/7/3/1/2 against Detroit in 31 mins.
13/8/1 against Minnesota in 21 mins.
17/4 against Clippers in 30 mins.
17/10/5/0/1 against OKC in 30 mins.
21/6/3 against Indiana in 30 mins.
20/2/2 against Indiana in 25 mins.
20/4/0/2 against Utah in 29 mins.
20/7/5/1/4 against Denver in 39 mins.
22/7/2/1 against Utah in 35 mins.
19/7/3 against Clippers in 23 mins.
20/12/1/1 against Pelicans in 30 mins.
19/5/4/2 against OKC in 25 mins.

[WaveTheWheat80]

Any good highlight tapes out there of Josh Jackson in his last 15 games or so?

There's one of his 29 point game:

Watch on YouTube

And a recent article of what he has been doing lately (for those guys who clearly haven't seen a thing of him the last 20 or so games):

https://fansided.com/2018/02/28/josh-jackson-suns-potential-progress/

Against Memphis? Really? Guys I get wanting to feel good about your draft picks but you guys saw Skal drop 32 on your team during tank time last year and Skal spent time in the G league this year.

Jackson may be getting better but suddenly good games against tanking teams have to be looked at skeptically.

Agenda much?

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[_Joker]

15 assists from Simmons and a positive +/- in a tough loss.

With Ball and Jackson delivering the goods lately, and of course Mitchell continuing to play like a mad kent - this rookie class has been amazing.

[UcanUwill]

Bogdan Bogdanovich with a great game, 22 points on 11 shots, 7 assists, ruining Kings tank.

Watch on YouTube

[Hedda Gambler]

This year we might end up with the top three contenders (Simmons, Mitchell and Tatum) for the ROTY award all going into the play offs. Has that ever happened before?

[UcanUwill]

This year we might end up with the top three contenders (Simmons, Mitchell and Tatum) for the ROTY award all going into the play offs. Has that ever happened before?

I love Tatum, but I dont think hes in contention. Its a two man race. But this years rookies are amazing, complete opposite of what we had last year.

[Sactowndog]

There's one of his 29 point game:

Watch on YouTube

And a recent article of what he has been doing lately (for those guys who clearly haven't seen a thing of him the last 20 or so games):

https://fansided.com/2018/02/28/josh-jackson-suns-potential-progress/

Against Memphis? Really? Guys I get wanting to feel good about your draft picks but you guys saw Skal drop 32 on your team during tank time last year and Skal spent time in the G league this year.

Jackson may be getting better but suddenly good games against tanking teams have to be looked at skeptically.

Agenda much?

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Not at all. I just think you have to look at games against tanking teams skeptically. Especially Memphis. And that cuts both ways. You don’t see me on here posting highlights of Bogi from tonight’s game against New York.

He scored 22 points on 7-11 shooting and 3-5 from 3. He paired it with 7 assists. If he does it against a non tanking team perhaps I will post highlights.

[Young gun 6]

Against Memphis? Really? Guys I get wanting to feel good about your draft picks but you guys saw Skal drop 32 on your team during tank time last year and Skal spent time in the G league this year.

Jackson may be getting better but suddenly good games against tanking teams have to be looked at skeptically.

Agenda much?

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Not at all. I just think you have to look at games against tanking teams skeptically. Especially Memphis. And that cuts both ways. You don’t see me on here posting highlights of Bogi from tonight’s game against New York.

He scored 22 points on 7-11 shooting and 3-5 from 3. He paired it with 7 assists. If he does it against a non tanking team perhaps I will post highlights.

It was posted in reply to someone asking for recent highlights. You went out of your way to try discredit it. No one asked for highlights of Bogdan though so it’s not really the equivalent if you went out of your way to do that. But be my guest, feel free to post highlights of Bogdan against playoff teams. I’d be surprised if he scored over 20 against a playoff team as he hasn’t done that in his career to date and somehow scoring 29/7/4/2/2 against a poor team in a win is not a good thing. I’m assuming Bogdan’s 22/7 today means nothing too as it was against the KP-less Knicks.

[Sactowndog]

Agenda much?

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Not at all. I just think you have to look at games against tanking teams skeptically. Especially Memphis. And that cuts both ways. You don’t see me on here posting highlights of Bogi from tonight’s game against New York.

He scored 22 points on 7-11 shooting and 3-5 from 3. He paired it with 7 assists. If he does it against a non tanking team perhaps I will post highlights.

It was posted in reply to someone asking for recent highlights. You went out of your way to try discredit it. No one asked for highlights of Bogdan though so it’s not really the equivalent if you went out of your way to do that. But be my guest, feel free to post highlights of Bogdan against playoff teams. I’d be surprised if he scored over 20 against a playoff team as he hasn’t done that in his career to date and somehow scoring 29/7/4/2/2 against a poor team in a win is not a good thing. I’m assuming Bogdan’s 22/7 today means nothing too as it was against the KP-less Knicks.

As I said it’s something you have to look at skeptically, good lord Skal went for 32 against Phoenix last year.