Clippers Match Tyrone Wallace's Offer Sheet

[MartinToVaught]

Austin is shooting 26% from 10-16 and 20% from 16-21 this year. His 3PT% is an outlier compared to his career. He's also a terrible free throw shooter.

Face it: Austin is one of those "shooting guards who can't shoot" that you're against paying. But unlike Ty, he doesn't play defense or contribute anything else. He's also overpaid. But you make every excuse in the book for him, and then you act like giving minimum contracts to Jawun and Thornwell is going to ruin our cap flexibility.

Your extreme pro-Rivers bias makes your opinions on Wallace impossible to take seriously.

You need to know how to read the stats. Shots between 10 feet and the 3-point line represent only 9.9% of Austin's shots. 3-pointers comprise 45.8% of his shots! And he hits almost 40% of them, for a TS% of 59.2% on 3s. [297 points on 251 attempts.] And 3s serve a great strategic purpose, as they space the floor. A SG with these numbers will always have a job in the NBA.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/riverau01.html

Ty's problem is that he can't hit the 3. If he could, he'd have a contract. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. The rest of his game is fine.

As for Juwan and Sindarius, until they can hit the 3, they are marginal players as well, a dime a dozen. At this point, our 3-year commitment to them isn't a disaster, but it's not a plus either. I think most of us would prefer Ty to those two, but we just don't need any more contracts like that.

I can read the stats just fine. Austin's percentage of FGA from three is an outlier for his career just like his shooting percentage from three. This is the only year he's ever taken more than 40% of his shots from three, and his career average of FGA from three is only 33%. And his 3PT% this year (40%) is also an outlier compared to the norm (35% career).

You are pointing to less than one season's worth of Austin spacing the floor to an acceptable level and pretending that he's always done that. He was not even close to being a 40% three-point shooter when he signed his current contract and he still got big money anyway. I don't see you complaining about that.

[esqtvd]

Austin is shooting 26% from 10-16 and 20% from 16-21 this year. His 3PT% is an outlier compared to his career. He's also a terrible free throw shooter.

Face it: Austin is one of those "shooting guards who can't shoot" that you're against paying. But unlike Ty, he doesn't play defense or contribute anything else. He's also overpaid. But you make every excuse in the book for him, and then you act like giving minimum contracts to Jawun and Thornwell is going to ruin our cap flexibility.

Your extreme pro-Rivers bias makes your opinions on Wallace impossible to take seriously.

You need to know how to read the stats. Shots between 10 feet and the 3-point line represent only 9.9% of Austin's shots. 3-pointers comprise 45.8% of his shots! And he hits almost 40% of them, for a TS% of 59.2% on 3s. [297 points on 251 attempts.] And 3s serve a great strategic purpose, as they space the floor. A SG with these numbers will always have a job in the NBA.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/riverau01.html

Ty's problem is that he can't hit the 3. If he could, he'd have a contract. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. The rest of his game is fine.

As for Juwan and Sindarius, until they can hit the 3, they are marginal players as well, a dime a dozen. At this point, our 3-year commitment to them isn't a disaster, but it's not a plus either. I think most of us would prefer Ty to those two, but we just don't need any more contracts like that.

I can read the stats just fine. Austin's percentage of FGA from three is an outlier for his career just like his shooting percentage from three. This is the only year he's ever taken more than 40% of his shots from three, and his career average of FGA from three is only 33%. And his 3PT% this year (40%) is also an outlier compared to the norm (35% career).

You are pointing to less than one season's worth of Austin spacing the floor to an acceptable level and pretending that he's always done that. He was not even close to being a 40% three-point shooter when he signed his current contract and he still got big money anyway. I don't see you complaining about that.

Not an outlier--Austin shot 37.1% on 3s last year, and has shown steady improvement since the day he got here. I'm not going to re-litigate the contract he signed years ago. That's the Rivers Derangement Syndrome stuff that pollutes almost every thread these days. The topic is Ty, and he can't shoot the 3. And I'll even stipulate that if he hadn't developed his 3-point shot, Austin would probably be out of the league or at least eating some serious pine.

Shooting guards gotta shoot.

[MartinToVaught]

Yes, an outlier. When he signed his contract, he was coming off a season where he shot only 33.5% from three. The year before? 29.8% - basically the same as Wallace's current 3PT%, and he was only a year younger than Ty is now.

You act like Ty doesn't deserve a contract. But then you continue to ignore how by your own standards, Austin deserved his contract even less, considering how little he contributes in other aspects of the game compared to Ty. Of course you don't want to relitigate Austin's contract, because that would expose your hypocrisy on the subject.

[JGOJustin]

I've never seen someone stick to a narrative the way MTV does. It's actually quite impressive.

I mean Austin has made over 37% of his last 735 3pt attempts dating back to 2015(!)

You gotta give it up bro lol

[JGOJustin]

Now I absolutely think that Ty Wallace should have a deal from us. He's 23, is long, versatile, and has proven to be worthy enough to be a part of the Clippers present and future timeline.

I have no idea how this turned into a Austin vs Ty Wallace thing lol

[MartinToVaught]

Now I absolutely think that Ty Wallace should have a deal from us. He's 23, is long, versatile, and has proven to be worthy enough to be a part of the Clippers present and future timeline.

I have no idea how this turned into a Austin vs Ty Wallace thing lol

Esqtvd said we shouldn't give contracts to shooting guards who can't shoot. I pointed out that we already did that by overpaying Austin.

[esqtvd]

I've never seen someone stick to a narrative the way MTV does. It's actually quite impressive.

I mean Austin has made over 37% of his last 735 3pt attempts dating back to 2015(!)

facts are good

[MartinToVaught]

Read on Twitter

So we really are just going to let Wallace sit in the D-League, then. The Clippers haven't changed one bit. Still no appreciation for young talent. This rebuild is going to be a disaster.

[donemilio21]

Sean Kilpatrick ???
Why on earth are we signing a 28 year old SG who shot .331 from the field and .270 from behind the arc in 39 games this season ?
I know it's just a 10 day contract, but why ?

[Roscoe Sheed]

It must be a repeater tax type of thing. Kilpatrick’s numbers are bad, but he crushed the clippers in that overtime game last year in which doc blew a spass

[MartinToVaught]

Sean Kilpatrick ???
Why on earth are we signing a 28 year old SG who shot .331 from the field and .270 from behind the arc in 39 games this season ?
I know it's just a 10 day contract, but why ?

Because GM Doc is clearly still running the show. Signing scrubs who had a big game against us once is a hallmark of the Doc era. So is not valuing young talent besides the coach's son.

[Wammy Giveaway]

Tyrone has actually helped the Clippers to a few season saving wins to keep them in the playoff hunt. If the Clippers make the playoffs, they would love to have him on the roster, but the repeater tax is what's standing in the way. Any move they make automatically puts them in that threshold - it's akin to having stretched dead money in the books. The only way to get Tyrone eligible is for Clippers to waive him (at the G-League level because the playoff eligibility date has past) and gamble that nobody else would get him. If they let Wallace finish out the G-League season and bring him back with or without a conversion, he'll be ineligible for the playoffs.

This is what I'm afraid of: Clippers stay in mediocrity and hold off on Wallace until the last game of the season, which is when they'll face the Lakers. If they can defeat the Lakers, they'll make the playoffs as the 8th seed or whatever seed based on tiebreakers and get Wallace eligible. Lose, and they'll miss the playoffs and retain him as a RFA.

Are the Clippers basically punting the season to protect their assets? That's what it feels like to me.

[MartinToVaught]

Read on Twitter

This franchise is just infuriating. We trade away the best player in franchise history to get cheaper and younger, then continue to not value cheap, young talent. Again, there's a reason I wasn't drinking the Kool-Aid after the Blake trade. And there's a reason I've been saying since last season that I'm only in favor of a rebuild if Doc and all his yes-men are fired first.

Same old Clippers.

[esqtvd]

RULE: when it's good it's Jerry
when it's bad it's Doc

back to reality, a good take from @LucasJHann [BF mine]

Based on what we know, I feel safe drawing a few tentative conclusions. The first is that the Clippers want Tyrone long-term. If they just felt like they needed him for the next month, they would convert him and worry about the rest later. That they are pursuing a long-term deal shows they like him as a prospect. The second is that I feel like neither camp really knows the market for Ty. I don’t think the Clippers came in this low because they felt like it was a fair offer—I’d guess that they just wanted to get the ball rolling in negotiations, and didn’t know where to start, so they went as low as possible. It wouldn’t surprise me if Ty’s representatives didn’t even counter the Clippers’ offer in an attempt to draw a better deal out of the team.

ADD: but also a good take here

Read on Twitter

not to mention Pat Bev and maybe Avery
lotsa guards
none of whom are dead-eye shooters either

[esqtvd]

UPDATE: Although a 2-way contract must be converted to be eligible for the playoffs, Ty will be eligible to play our last 10 regular season games [iirc] after the G-League season ends on March 24.

https://2ways10days.com/nba-two-way-contracts-faq-70d1c9cbbe9

Are there days that do not count toward the 45 day maximum?

Yes. If a player provides one or more NBA days of service before the first day of any NBA G League training camp or after the final game of the player’s team’s NBA G League Regular Season, such day(s) will not count toward the 45-Day Two-Way Service Limit, per the CBA.

This is important and has been overlooked by many. The NBA G League regular season ended April 1 during the 2016–17 season and the NBA regular season ended April 12. Those additional days when the two-way player would presumably be brought back to their NBA club, do not count toward the 45-day maximum.

So there's really no rush here.

[JGOJustin]

Read on Twitter

This franchise is just infuriating. We trade away the best player in franchise history to get cheaper and younger, then continue to not value cheap, young talent. Again, there's a reason I wasn't drinking the Kool-Aid after the Blake trade. And there's a reason I've been saying since last season that I'm only in favor of a rebuild if Doc and all his yes-men are fired first.

Same old Clippers.

No one said LAC isn't going to keep Ty Wallace. He's still going to be a RFA this summer. Let him go into FA, set the market, and see if he's worth keeping financially.

But w/two lotto picks coming in, in addition to prospects that they like in Sin and Jawun, guys potentially picking up their Player Options, it's hard for me to get 'that' upset about Ty Wallace honestly.

[JGOJustin]

A highly plausible scenario due to the climate is that guys pick up their PO

Austin/Pat/Milos/Jawun/Sindarius/Wejo/potential lotto pick/potential lotto pick/unforeseen FA pick ups

why would you want to automatically tie yourself into a multiyear deal w/Ty when

1) He's good, but he's not can't miss

2) you don't know what the market is for him

3) Flat out numbers game. W/two lotto picks and potential FA, trades, you probably can replace Ty wallace.

Not defending this fully because I want Ty Wallace and felt he was a blue chip, but I get it, I understand it.

[MartinToVaught]

After the Joe Ingles debacle and, to a lesser extent, Reggie Bullock, I can't understand how anyone can make excuses for the Clippers squandering yet another talented young prospect - or expect that it will work out in our favor.

[Vae Victus]

Actually im hoping Austin has a strong season, that way he'll opt out and try to cash in on his contract year push. Keep shooting dem 3s at a high % boi!

Then when Austin is expecting to "negotiate" with his dad for a near max raise, he finds himself locked in a brutal negotiation with the Logo, who basically goes, "you had a fine season Austin, but at this time the most we can offer you is what Lou Will got, in order for us to maintain flexibility for the future. If you feel that is not enough, we understand, and wish you a fine career."

There's no way in hell the Clips should shell out any sort of big money for Austin, if he were taller and a better defender then so be it (cuz we need the xtra defensive size/firepower from playing Lou Will and Milos significant mins). If Austin is smart he'll opt in, but hopefully his greed and his father thinking he's in control makes them over confident and opt out for another big payday on the Clipper dime.

I can think of much better ways to spend Austin's cap hit.

Also the faster we wash out the stink of nepotism the better for the franchise. Doc should NEVER have been allowed to sign his son to such a significant deal. I honestly think that really hurt the chemistry in the lockerroom, especially after all the shenanigans Doc pulled to make sure his son had ample mins on the floor to develop, to the detriment to the franchise.

Keep Doc as coach if we must, but now that Austin's career is "saved" i'd hope that Doc would just let he boi go blaze his own path.

I mean i dont blame Doc, cuz if i were a father in that situation i'd prolly do the exact same thing (hell i wish my dad did half as much to help my career), **** all the haters. But for everyone else, it just pisses people off to unimaginable heights to see nepotism in action.

[esqtvd]

Actually im hoping Austin has a strong season, that way he'll opt out and try to cash in on his contract year push. Keep shooting dem 3s at a high % boi!

Then when Austin is expecting to "negotiate" with his dad for a near max raise, he finds himself locked in a brutal negotiation with the Logo, who basically goes, "you had a fine season Austin, but at this time the most we can offer you is what Lou Will got, in order for us to maintain flexibility for the future. If you feel that is not enough, we understand, and wish you a fine career."

There's no way in hell the Clips should shell out any sort of big money for Austin, if he were taller and a better defender then so be it (cuz we need the xtra defensive size/firepower from playing Lou Will and Milos significant mins). If Austin is smart he'll opt in, but hopefully his greed and his father thinking he's in control makes them over confident and opt out for another big payday on the Clipper dime.

I can think of much better ways to spend Austin's cap hit.

Also the faster we wash out the stink of nepotism the better for the franchise. Doc should NEVER have been allowed to sign his son to such a significant deal. I honestly think that really hurt the chemistry in the lockerroom, especially after all the shenanigans Doc pulled to make sure his son had ample mins on the floor to develop, to the detriment to the franchise.

Keep Doc as coach if we must, but now that Austin's career is "saved" i'd hope that Doc would just let he boi go blaze his own path.

I mean i dont blame Doc, cuz if i were a father in that situation i'd prolly do the exact same thing (hell i wish my dad did half as much to help my career), **** all the haters. But for everyone else, it just pisses people off to unimaginable heights to see nepotism in action.

Fact is, people forget we were in "WIN NOW" mode and capped out--in an overheated market that saw a lot of WTF deals*--and we could only sign either our own FAs Austin and Jamal or minimum-wage players. We were taking a last shot at the BG/CP window. Although CP supposedly thought that Doc didn't criticize Austin hard enough when he messed up, CP also supposedly wanted Austin to start over JJ. Although the contract raised some eyebrows, basketball-wise, at $11-12M/yr, Austin's earned his dough.

I don't know what the team dynamic with Austin and Doc is, only the attitude of people on these boards, which doesn't count for much. I think Austin's become a team leader--and I also think he walks the tightrope between going for it and playing it too safe so he doesn't seem like a ballhogging gunner.

So that said, I think he'd probably be better off elsewhere. I said when he signed that contract [many people doubted he had other suitors] and I still think now he'd fit right in with the Sixers. JJ has a great PG in Simmons and is shooting 40.5% from 3; Austin has no PG at all and is shooting 39.8%. And say what you will about the rest of Austin's game, it's still better than JJ's.

_____________________

*https://www.canishoopus.com/2016/7/14/12162848/two-weeks-in-july-an-unprecedented-summer-in-nba-free-agency