The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[dautjazz]

Simmons looks like a unique star in the making, he's special. How special he'll be depends on him working on his flaws. Mitchell is a true #1 and is already a top-10 clutch player in the league. Strange to say this about a rookie but he has no major flaws in his game and with his determination and intelligence he should only improve. Also he started playing basketball late which makes his potential scary.

Yep, Mitchell is 6th in the NBA in 4th Quarter Points (ahead of him: Lou Williams, Travis Wear, LeBron, Butler, Cousins).
Simmons is 4th in the NBA in Points In Paint (ahead of him: Antetokounmpo, Anthony Davis and LeBron).

You can't count Wear, he has one game, he doesn't qualify. Mitchell had 7 pts in the 4th, a layup and 5fts. I know he didn't shoot that well tonight, but he got himself to the line and stepped up his game in 4th as usual.

[RB34]

Simmons looks like a unique star in the making, he's special. How special he'll be depends on him working on his flaws. Mitchell is a true #1 and is already a top-10 clutch player in the league. Strange to say this about a rookie but he has no major flaws in his game and with his determination and intelligence he should only improve. Also he started playing basketball late which makes his potential scary.

Yep, Mitchell is 6th in the NBA in 4th Quarter Points (ahead of him: Lou Williams, Travis Wear, LeBron, Butler, Cousins).
Simmons is 4th in the NBA in Points In Paint (ahead of him: Antetokounmpo, Anthony Davis and LeBron).

Yea, Simmons is a big man he should get points in the Paint, but Mitchell is the go to guy in the fourth qtr.

And there are a lot of things Simmons does better than Mitchell.......

[dautjazz]

Yep, Mitchell is 6th in the NBA in 4th Quarter Points (ahead of him: Lou Williams, Travis Wear, LeBron, Butler, Cousins).
Simmons is 4th in the NBA in Points In Paint (ahead of him: Antetokounmpo, Anthony Davis and LeBron).

Yea, Simmons is a big man he should get points in the Paint, but Mitchell is the go to guy in the fourth qtr.

And there are a lot of things Simmons does better than Mitchell.......

Shooting FTs and 3pters aint one.

[RB34]

Yea, Simmons is a big man he should get points in the Paint, but Mitchell is the go to guy in the fourth qtr.

And there are a lot of things Simmons does better than Mitchell.......

Shooting FTs and 3pters aint one.

But basically everything else.

[zimpy27]

Simmons is clearly ahead. I'm surprised it's so contentious on here. Mitchell is great though.

[deflated]

Simmons looks like a unique star in the making, he's special. How special he'll be depends on him working on his flaws. Mitchell is a true #1 and is already a top-10 clutch player in the league. Strange to say this about a rookie but he has no major flaws in his game and with his determination and intelligence he should only improve. Also he started playing basketball late which makes his potential scary.

Yep, Mitchell is 6th in the NBA in 4th Quarter Points (ahead of him: Lou Williams, Travis Wear, LeBron, Butler, Cousins).
Simmons is 4th in the NBA in Points In Paint (ahead of him: Antetokounmpo, Anthony Davis and LeBron).

Yea, Simmons is a big man he should get points in the Paint, but Mitchell is the go to guy in the fourth qtr.

This is Simmons vs Mitchell in a nutshell; points versus everything else that matters.

Look at the nba.com Advanced Clutch stats; Simmons has an OffRtg of 115 in clutch time, Mitchell has 105. For TS% it's Simmons at 68% while MItchell drops down to 51%. Mitchell scores more points through volume but Simmons is a much more productive player when it matters.

[PLO]

Getting points in the paint is something Lonzo is really struggling with this season, overall his shot has come around some though as the season's wore on.

[downtownpie]

A race like this is going to narrow as the year comes to a close, as it should, but that unfortunately always coincides with other rookies getting a chance to start breaking out who would have either played too poorly at the start of the year or didn't get a chance to play enough to warrant being in the ROTY conversation. I wish there was an equal amount of interest in the first and second team all-rookie or that ROTY was tracked like the "rookie ladder" from NBA.com where guys who come on late can get some recognition.

Guys like Jarrett Allen, Fox, John Collins, Jackson, Bogdan etc. are all doing some impressive stuff, but are too late to the table to be in the conversation. I think it's arguably more fun to try and figure out what guys are making the first and second all-rookie teams, especially in a year like this where there are so many playing so well. Obviously you'll have so many more guys in the conversation for the bubble spots, which I think makes it more fun, but I also think you can also really take into consideration guys who might have only gotten serious run towards the end of the season or who might have only played a minor role on a good team.

I'd be really curious who people think would end up on 1st team vs 2nd team vs honorable mentions with SO many rookies looking pretty damn good.

PG - Ball
SG - Mitchell
SF - Tatum
PF - Simmons
C - Markkanen

PG - Fox
SG - Smith
SF - Bogdanovic
PF - Kuzma
C - Collins

Honorable mention
Ntilikina, Fultz, Jackson

I've got a similar list:

I think the first team is pretty set with those 5:
PG - Ball
SG - Mitchell
SF - Tatum
PF - Simmons
C - Markkanen

The second team I think is much more debatable especially at the guard and C position:
PG - Fox
SG - Jackson
SF - Bogdanovic
PF - Kuzma
C - Jarret Allen

I guess instead of honorable mention here's my non-existent 3rd team:
PG - Smith Jr.
SG - Frank
SF - OG
PF - Collins
C - Adebayo

You lose credibility when move Simmons so you can have Ball in the team. Ball isnt playing PG in front of Simmons.

[LAL]

PG - Ball
SG - Mitchell
SF - Tatum
PF - Simmons
C - Markkanen

PG - Fox
SG - Smith
SF - Bogdanovic
PF - Kuzma
C - Collins

Honorable mention
Ntilikina, Fultz, Jackson

I've got a similar list:

I think the first team is pretty set with those 5:
PG - Ball
SG - Mitchell
SF - Tatum
PF - Simmons
C - Markkanen

The second team I think is much more debatable especially at the guard and C position:
PG - Fox
SG - Jackson
SF - Bogdanovic
PF - Kuzma
C - Jarret Allen

I guess instead of honorable mention here's my non-existent 3rd team:
PG - Smith Jr.
SG - Frank
SF - OG
PF - Collins
C - Adebayo

You lose credibility when move Simmons so you can have Ball in the team. Ball isnt playing PG in front of Simmons.

There are no positions on rookie teams so luckily for him it makes no difference.

[Side beard]

Good to see some of these rookies find their groove. MItchell, if he continues like that, should be the best this year. Who know where Utah would be without his offense.

[downtownpie]

I've got a similar list:

I think the first team is pretty set with those 5:
PG - Ball
SG - Mitchell
SF - Tatum
PF - Simmons
C - Markkanen

The second team I think is much more debatable especially at the guard and C position:
PG - Fox
SG - Jackson
SF - Bogdanovic
PF - Kuzma
C - Jarret Allen

I guess instead of honorable mention here's my non-existent 3rd team:
PG - Smith Jr.
SG - Frank
SF - OG
PF - Collins
C - Adebayo

You lose credibility when move Simmons so you can have Ball in the team. Ball isnt playing PG in front of Simmons.

There are no positions on rookie teams so luckily for him it makes no difference.

either way Ball isn't 1st team rookie in front of Simmons or Mitchell.

[LAL]

You lose credibility when move Simmons so you can have Ball in the team. Ball isnt playing PG in front of Simmons.

There are no positions on rookie teams so luckily for him it makes no difference.

either way Ball isn't 1st team rookie in front of Simmons or Mitchell.

Again, there are no positions on rookie teams. Could literally have 5 point guards make first team.

[cl2117]

Again, there are no positions on rookie teams. Could literally have 5 point guards make first team.

I actually didn't know this was the case, but funnily enough I think I have the same exact 5 guys for first ream all-rookie regardless.

[longwayhome]

Interesting results, which contradict this poll. I tallied up the votes from the end of year awards thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1682084

After 7 pages, here were the results so far for who people think will win ROTY:
Ben Simmons - 63.5% (47/74)
Donovan Mitchell - 29.7 % (22/74)
Co-ROTYs/Can't split them - 6.8% (5/74)
A few of the people that voted for Mitchell also voted for him because they don't consider Simmons a 'rookie' though. Also, most of the time, they were 1-2 in the winner-runner up voting. Personally, I was surprised I didn't see Lonzo in there somewhere as runner up. Dude is killing it, could be darkhorse for runner up.

[Revived]

I'm not sure I like Jackson for the 2nd team. He looked like nothing more than an athlete to me when I saw him play. And at 21yo you'd like to see some more skill to build on. (but, that's just based on a single game, so extremely limited sample, but that was the opinion I formed -- he's just a hustle guy)

He averaged something like 17/7/3 in February.

For the Suns.

He might turn out to be terrific. But, my eye says he's nothing more than a hustle player putting up stats on a bad team where someone has to put up stats. Your mileage may vary.

I guess I should say some nice things: He is a great athlete and when he's coming at you in transition you are at his mercy. Didn't seem to try to do too much. If he develops a 3pt shot he could have a long and profitable career as a 3 and D guy.

Wait, what? You realize most top 5 selected rookies end up putting stats on bad teams right? Players like Simmons are anomalies, not the norm.

I don't remember anyone discounting Durant's rookie year just because his team only won 20 games. Or KAT's rookie year just because his team only won 29 games.

You said you haven't seen him play much so here ya go to help you out

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[jazzfan1971]

He averaged something like 17/7/3 in February.

For the Suns.

He might turn out to be terrific. But, my eye says he's nothing more than a hustle player putting up stats on a bad team where someone has to put up stats. Your mileage may vary.

I guess I should say some nice things: He is a great athlete and when he's coming at you in transition you are at his mercy. Didn't seem to try to do too much. If he develops a 3pt shot he could have a long and profitable career as a 3 and D guy.

Wait, what? You realize most top 5 selected rookies end up putting stats on bad teams right? Players like Simmons are anomalies, not the norm.

I don't remember anyone discounting Durant's rookie year just because his team only won 20 games. Or KAT's rookie year just because his team only won 29 games.

You said you haven't seen him play much so here ya go to help you out

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Thanks. I watched all 3 videos. I actually remember watching the Jazz one, I recall thinking that Payton was the problem for the Jazz that game, didn't notice Jackson as much that game. But in the 2 highlight reels against OKC he flashed quite a bit of skill in passing and shooting 3s. So, probably I just haven't seen enough of him to properly judge him or maybe the Jazz is just a bad matchup for him.

[Revived]

For the Suns.

He might turn out to be terrific. But, my eye says he's nothing more than a hustle player putting up stats on a bad team where someone has to put up stats. Your mileage may vary.

I guess I should say some nice things: He is a great athlete and when he's coming at you in transition you are at his mercy. Didn't seem to try to do too much. If he develops a 3pt shot he could have a long and profitable career as a 3 and D guy.

Wait, what? You realize most top 5 selected rookies end up putting stats on bad teams right? Players like Simmons are anomalies, not the norm.

I don't remember anyone discounting Durant's rookie year just because his team only won 20 games. Or KAT's rookie year just because his team only won 29 games.

You said you haven't seen him play much so here ya go to help you out

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Thanks. I watched all 3 videos. I actually remember watching the Jazz one, I recall thinking that Payton was the problem for the Jazz that game, didn't notice Jackson as much that game. But in the 2 highlight reels against OKC he flashed quite a bit of skill in passing and shooting 3s. So, probably I just haven't seen enough of him to properly judge him or maybe the Jazz is just a bad matchup for him.

He can handle the ball and pass better than people think. But he doesn’t have a jumper yet, if he can develop that too then he will be lethal. Unlike TJ Warren, Jackson at least attempts 3s so there’s hope that he’s working on improving that part of his game.

[PhilBlackson]

If only Jackson had a bit longer wingspan, I'd like him even more. I love the hustle n energy he plays with. Of course his shooting mechanics are a bit ugly lol but if he was just a bit longer I'd like his versatility to guard multiple positions more. Imo he seems like he's more the size of a good SG than SF. Still like him overall as a player though.

[commentatorer]

Simmons looks like a unique star in the making, he's special. How special he'll be depends on him working on his flaws. Mitchell is a true #1 and is already a top-10 clutch player in the league. Strange to say this about a rookie but he has no major flaws in his game and with his determination and intelligence he should only improve. Also he started playing basketball late which makes his potential scary.

Yep, Mitchell is 6th in the NBA in 4th Quarter Points (ahead of him: Lou Williams, Travis Wear, LeBron, Butler, Cousins).
Simmons is 4th in the NBA in Points In Paint (ahead of him: Antetokounmpo, Anthony Davis and LeBron).

Yea, Simmons is a big man he should get points in the Paint, but Mitchell is the go to guy in the fourth qtr.

Just because Simmons is a "big man" it doesn't make it a given that he'll be top 4 in the NBA in points scored in the paint.
Just as Mitchell being a SHOOTING guard doesn't make it a given that he'll be a great 3-point-shooter (instead he's a .347 trey shooter).

Yep, Mitchell is 6th in the NBA in 4th Quarter Points (ahead of him: Lou Williams, Travis Wear, LeBron, Butler, Cousins).
Simmons is 4th in the NBA in Points In Paint (ahead of him: Antetokounmpo, Anthony Davis and LeBron).

Yea, Simmons is a big man he should get points in the Paint, but Mitchell is the go to guy in the fourth qtr.

This is Simmons vs Mitchell in a nutshell; points versus everything else that matters.

Look at the nba.com Advanced Clutch stats; Simmons has an OffRtg of 115 in clutch time, Mitchell has 105. For TS% it's Simmons at 68% while MItchell drops down to 51%. Mitchell scores more points through volume but Simmons is a much more productive player when it matters.

Exactly, very well summed up.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

Bam has the 5th highest FTR this season among players who've played 1000 or more minutes and he's the youngest of the 5. Future star.