Potential sleepers

SeattleJazzFan · Post #1241 » by **SeattleJazzFan** » Mon Mar 5, 2018 7:46 pm

yeah, tillie's shooting numbers are pretty crazy. and while he didn't play much as a frosh, they cross both seasons. 48% 3s as a freshman - again on limited attempts, and 46% now as a sophomore. wish he were taking about double the number of threes he takes. only 81 attempts this year. not a great sample size.

doordoor123 · Post #1242 » by **doordoor123** » Mon Mar 5, 2018 8:13 pm

Ruzious wrote:
twosevenstreet wrote:Is Tillie still considered a sleeper (was he ever?)?

Also I think Johnathan Williams has a shot at being a Dante Cunningham / Trevor Booker style PF in the league

Gotta admit I thought Tillie was just 2nd round material - he didn't seem particularly smooth or skilled and was a bit scrawny to excel defensively in the NBA, but he's showing to be a really good stretch 4 prospect - good enough for mid 1st consideration in this draft. 17 of 24 3's in the last 7 games, and he looks a lot stronger than last season.

Yeah, I think Williams has a legit chance in that mold. Obviously, if he can improve his 3 point shot, it'll dramatically help his chances.

Btw, I think teams picking after 15 will be trying to get Jontay Porter to come out. He's been tremendous in 3 of his last 4 games - the 1 exception when he got in foul trouble against Kentucky. He's getting bigger, smarter, has 3 point range, passes real well, is understanding team defense better - not an exceptional athlete but good enough considering his skills. Could develop into a Marc Gasol type.

A good indication that Tillie will find success is the success Domantas Sabonis has had. They have a similar feel for the game, both with a soft touch around the basket and a good feel in the post. Neither are very athletic. While Sabonis is better in the post, Tillie can stretch and defend the wing better. He’s also still super young. My only issue with him is his rebounding. I know he spends a lot of time on the perimeter, but I just still don’t think he’s going to be a very strong rebounder in the NBA. I see him developing into an Ersan Ilyasova type, but Ilyasova has a better jumper.

I also think it’s super hard to get drafted as a PF nowadays. There are too many good ones and a lack of need for them now that everyone is going small unless they do something really well, like defend or shoot. To me Tillie doesn’t convince me he’s worth picking over a center or a wing only because there isn’t one thing about his abilities that sticks out. I think he gets drafted somewhere between 25-35 and I think that’s going to end up being good value in that range.

No-Man · Post #1243 » by **No-Man** » Mon Mar 5, 2018 8:39 pm

Tillie is athletic (was a volleyball player and is much better vertically than Domas) plus he doesnt have the same body type than Sabonis, they are similar in that both are highly regarder european prospects, white, and have family members that have played pro basketball, that's about it.

Stackey · Post #1244 » by **Stackey** » Mon Mar 5, 2018 8:45 pm

Is Tillie healthy now? In Europe, he was MVP of the U16 European championship but next two years injured almost all the time, people forgot about him.

doordoor123 · Post #1245 » by **doordoor123** » Mon Mar 5, 2018 9:30 pm

Fischella wrote:Tillie is athletic (was a volleyball player and is much better vertically than Domas) plus he doesnt have the same body type than Sabonis, they are similar in that both are highly regarder european prospects, white, and have family members that have played pro basketball, that's about it.

They play a similar style of game was I was getting at. High post/low post, more mid-range and tricky inside buckets and often make passing plays from the high post. Tillie will likely be pushed more to the perimeter in the NBA since he has more PF skills than center. He’s athletic when he scores or shoots hook shots, yes, but not in terms of his rebounding. He rebounds a lot of the time when he’s on the floor, not at its highest point.

RipCity71252 · Post #1246 » by **RipCity71252** » Mon Mar 5, 2018 9:42 pm

doordoor123 wrote:
Fischella wrote:Tillie is athletic (was a volleyball player and is much better vertically than Domas) plus he doesnt have the same body type than Sabonis, they are similar in that both are highly regarder european prospects, white, and have family members that have played pro basketball, that's about it.

They play a similar style of game was I was getting at. High post/low post, more mid-range and tricky inside buckets and often make passing plays from the high post. Tillie will likely be pushed more to the perimeter in the NBA since he has more PF skills than center. He’s athletic when he scores or shoots hook shots, yes, but not in terms of his rebounding. He rebounds a lot of the time when he’s on the floor, not at its highest point.

Bertans with less shooting and more defense is what I see him as.

Post #1247 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Mar 5, 2018 9:48 pm

Neither Sabonis or Tillie are very long, and even with Tillie's volleyball experience and leaping ability, Sabonis is a far better rebounder. Sabonis isn't a muscle-man, but he's got stronger legs and doesn't get pushed around like Tillie has up to this point in his career. Both have been blessed with athletic parents.

doordoor123 · Post #1248 » by **doordoor123** » Mon Mar 5, 2018 11:08 pm

Ruzious wrote:Neither Sabonis or Tillie are very long, and even with Tillie's volleyball experience and leaping ability, Sabonis is a far better rebounder. Sabonis isn't a muscle-man, but he's got stronger legs and doesn't get pushed around like Tillie has up to this point in his career. Both have been blessed with athletic parents.

Well Tillie has a 7’2 wingspan which is pretty good as someone who is 6’9. He also has huge hands. Sabonis has the opposite, short arms with average hands.

Chicago-Bull-E · Post #1249 » by **Chicago-Bull-E** » Tue Mar 6, 2018 1:29 pm

Anyone else have thought on Shamorie Ponds? Might be undrafted or late second. Reminds me of Brandon Jennings.

Post #1250 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Mar 6, 2018 2:50 pm

doordoor123 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Neither Sabonis or Tillie are very long, and even with Tillie's volleyball experience and leaping ability, Sabonis is a far better rebounder. Sabonis isn't a muscle-man, but he's got stronger legs and doesn't get pushed around like Tillie has up to this point in his career. Both have been blessed with athletic parents.

Well Tillie has a 7’2 wingspan which is pretty good as someone who is 6’9. He also has huge hands. Sabonis has the opposite, short arms with average hands.

I was going by an old Givony scouting report that listed length as the first item under weaknesses for Tillie.

Post #1251 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Mar 6, 2018 3:09 pm

I'm assuming Kellan Grady of Davidson stays in school, but he's a very compelling (but old) frosh from Davidson who's shown dramatic improvement. He's averaging only 2.8 FTA's a game, but recently he's had games of 14 and 16. Some guy named Curry might have had an effect on him.

doordoor123 · Post #1252 » by **doordoor123** » Tue Mar 6, 2018 4:06 pm

After Jontay Porter killed Daniel Gafford I’m so sold on him as a lottery pick. I’m also not as sold on Gafford as a defender and kind of think he’s getting overrated. Definitely has potential on both ends, but he’s not a sure thing. He has a lot to learn. He gets killed by size, strength and athleticm on the boards. He also gets killed one-on-one on defense in the paint. He’s actually a better wing defender than inside. And he’s a great finisher, but needs a ton of work on that end too. And while he’s a solid passer, it’s nothing special on that end in the NBA.

In this draft he could probably go pretty high, but he’s such a project, it would be a mistake to take him near the lottery.

Post #1253 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Mar 6, 2018 4:14 pm

doordoor123 wrote:After Jontay Porter killed Daniel Gafford I’m so sold on him as a lottery pick. I’m also not as sold on Gafford as a defender and kind of think he’s getting overrated. Definitely has potential on both ends, but he’s not a sure thing. He has a lot to learn.

I thought they both played well - though Porter showed a wider variety of skills. Gafford showed his shot-blocking ability - but still has defensive issues. I like Gafford, but I much prefer Porter. Porter is one of those players that I'd try to do whatever it takes within reason to get him.

doordoor123 · Post #1254 » by **doordoor123** » Tue Mar 6, 2018 4:16 pm

Ruzious wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:After Jontay Porter killed Daniel Gafford I’m so sold on him as a lottery pick. I’m also not as sold on Gafford as a defender and kind of think he’s getting overrated. Definitely has potential on both ends, but he’s not a sure thing. He has a lot to learn.

I thought they both played well - though Porter showed a wider variety of skills. Gafford showed his shot-blocking ability - but still has defensive issues. I like Gafford, but I much prefer Porter.

Gafford started playing better by the end of the game, but I really think he gets exposed against better competition/other prospects.

SeattleJazzFan · Post #1255 » by **SeattleJazzFan** » Tue Mar 6, 2018 5:25 pm

Tillie with another lights out shooting performance. 10-11 FGs, 5-5 3pt. sheesh.

CalL · Post #1256 » by **CalL** » Wed Mar 7, 2018 4:50 pm

Tillie is a first round pick in my opinion, i would definitely pick him ahead of guys like Yurtseven or Allen, probably around 25th.

nolang1 · Post #1257 » by **nolang1** » Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:47 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:Anyone else have thought on Shamorie Ponds? Might be undrafted or late second. Reminds me of Brandon Jennings.

I think he's a solid first rounder and maybe someone who could even sneak into the lottery. The class is light on point guards and he's averaging 22, 5, and 5 while being the exact same age as Michael Porter Jr. His free throw shooting, three-point shooting last year, and the degree of difficulty on his shots all give hope that he's a much better three-point shooter than his percentages this year indicate, and on top of that he has good defensive instincts.

Jalen McDaniels (redshirt freshman from San Diego State) doesn't seem likely to declare and I don't see him on any mock drafts, but the things holding him back from being a really solid NBA player (perimeter shooting reps and being really skinny) are things I'd rather see him working on with a professional staff. He's 6'9", long, has a good idea of where to be (whether on cuts, when rebounding, or making defensive rotations) and has improved quite a bit throughout the season. At this point he's pretty mobile and athletic for his size but has that Giannis type of build (different sort of game) where he looks like he's just gotten out of a growth spurt (or is still growing) and has room to become quite a bit more athletic if/when he adds muscle.

Since the new year he's averaging 19 points, 13 rebounds (4 offensive), 2 steals and a block per 40 on 64% shooting and 80% from the line. If I were in charge of a team like the Nets I'd rather take a chance on him than draft someone like Brandon McCoy or Metu.

toussaud · Post #1258 » by **toussaud** » Thu Mar 8, 2018 10:02 pm

you have to keep in mind Gafford has NO inside help. Whatsoever. To make matters worse, the starting PF just got kicked off the team.

Porter has Tilliman

doordoor123 · Post #1259 » by **doordoor123** » Thu Mar 8, 2018 10:05 pm

So I like Jontay Porter more than Wendell Carter Jr....

RipCity71252 · Post #1260 » by **RipCity71252** » Fri Mar 9, 2018 1:10 am

doordoor123 wrote:So I like Jontay Porter more than Wendell Carter Jr....

Bold.

Wendell has better physical tools and hasn't been as maximized offensively as Jontay has imo

Don't get me wrong, they both have warts, but I think Jontay's tools are going to force him to be a strict 5 and I'm just not sure he has the defense, physicality to hold up. And although he'll be primarily a spacer / big space decision maker on offense, his finishing issues can't be ignored. I'd be fine with him here if he had good touch / craft in the paint, but he doesn't even have that from what I've seen of him.