GT: Nets @ LA Clippers - Sunday March 4th, 2018 9:00pm EST

[Prokorov]

honestly, Russell being benched in the 4th has really discouraged me personally. like what are we doing here?

LeVert's play was excellent and its honestly something that no Nets fan should be surprised by. But to not play Russell for an entire qtr is pretty concerning. add that with Dinwiddie's play and I'm pretty much like uh i feel like the train is about to go flying off of the tracks.

I'm only concerned because Russell seems like a fragile guy. I think certain guys would take this well, I'm not sure he would.

But I think these guys need some tough love. Mental and focus mistakes are to be expected of young guys but that doesn't mean Kenny needs to coddle them through it. Don't embarrass them publicly but if your head isn't in the game, we have plenty of hungry guys on the bench.

Watch film and get better the next game. It's not the end of the world.

yeah.... i guess i see Russell as a guy id rather move on from then give 5/130M too so ive kind of moved on from him mentally. that said i dont think this really breaks him or is all that serious

[MrDollarBills]

honestly, Russell being benched in the 4th has really discouraged me personally. like what are we doing here?

LeVert's play was excellent and its honestly something that no Nets fan should be surprised by. But to not play Russell for an entire qtr is pretty concerning. add that with Dinwiddie's play and I'm pretty much like uh i feel like the train is about to go flying off of the tracks.

I'm only concerned because Russell seems like a fragile guy. I think certain guys would take this well, I'm not sure he would.

But I think these guys need some tough love. Mental and focus mistakes are to be expected of young guys but that doesn't mean Kenny needs to coddle them through it. Don't embarrass them publicly but if your head isn't in the game, we have plenty of hungry guys on the bench.

Watch film and get better the next game. It's not the end of the world.

yeah I'm concerned because I really don't know how he will respond. I'm not upset at what Kenny did. the fact that it came to that however, is what makes me think oh great...our bad luck with players will continue.

if he responds poorly, that will kind of really derail things imo. whether we want to admit it or not, a lot of our future success rides on Russell really living up to his potential. if he responds the right way, i'll be less worried.

Russell has done nothing to show me that he is a bad kid or that he will do something negative as a response to being benched. But I can't help but worry things could sour here which would be a massive disappointment. at least for me as a fan of the team.

couple this with Dinwiddie seemingly losing his aggression and I'm just like what the hell it felt like were headed towards doing some good things with these two guys...now i'm not so sure any more. i guess i'm overreacting, but i can't hide my concern

I guess I should be focused more on the fact that RHJ and LeVert continue to do their jobs.

[MrDollarBills]

honestly, Russell being benched in the 4th has really discouraged me personally. like what are we doing here?

LeVert's play was excellent and its honestly something that no Nets fan should be surprised by. But to not play Russell for an entire qtr is pretty concerning. add that with Dinwiddie's play and I'm pretty much like uh i feel like the train is about to go flying off of the tracks.

I'm only concerned because Russell seems like a fragile guy. I think certain guys would take this well, I'm not sure he would.

But I think these guys need some tough love. Mental and focus mistakes are to be expected of young guys but that doesn't mean Kenny needs to coddle them through it. Don't embarrass them publicly but if your head isn't in the game, we have plenty of hungry guys on the bench.

Watch film and get better the next game. It's not the end of the world.

yeah.... i guess i see Russell as a guy id rather move on from then give 5/130M too so ive kind of moved on from him mentally. that said i dont think this really breaks him or is all that serious

I hope not. I think he's got some serious talent, but it will be really disappointing to me if it doesn't work out.

[Prokorov]

I'm only concerned because Russell seems like a fragile guy. I think certain guys would take this well, I'm not sure he would.

But I think these guys need some tough love. Mental and focus mistakes are to be expected of young guys but that doesn't mean Kenny needs to coddle them through it. Don't embarrass them publicly but if your head isn't in the game, we have plenty of hungry guys on the bench.

Watch film and get better the next game. It's not the end of the world.

yeah.... i guess i see Russell as a guy id rather move on from then give 5/130M too so ive kind of moved on from him mentally. that said i dont think this really breaks him or is all that serious

I hope not. I think he's got some serious talent, but it will be really disappointing to me if it doesn't work out.

hop over to the russell thread, we have a pretty interesting discussion going on what to do with him moving forward.

i wouldnt be disapointed at all if we move on from him... i dont want to be in the situation the magic are now with aaron gordon and we control our own pick/will have lotto picks soon, marks drafts well, and i like levert long term at PG/combo gaurd

[MrDollarBills]

yeah.... i guess i see Russell as a guy id rather move on from then give 5/130M too so ive kind of moved on from him mentally. that said i dont think this really breaks him or is all that serious

I hope not. I think he's got some serious talent, but it will be really disappointing to me if it doesn't work out.

hop over to the russell thread, we have a pretty interesting discussion going on what to do with him moving forward.

i wouldnt be disapointed at all if we move on from him... i dont want to be in the situation the magic are now with aaron gordon and we control our own pick/will have lotto picks soon, marks drafts well, and i like levert long term at PG/combo gaurd

yeah. i'm starting to accept the fact that we will probably have to do what some people have advocated...start tanking it and use our picks going forward to build the team.

[MGrand15]

I don't see why that number keeps getting thrown out with Russell 5/130 for a guy that hasn't even had half a season of major success. That's REALLY jumping the gun. No one's getting that contract without some serious production to back it up.

[Prokorov]

I hope not. I think he's got some serious talent, but it will be really disappointing to me if it doesn't work out.

hop over to the russell thread, we have a pretty interesting discussion going on what to do with him moving forward.

i wouldnt be disapointed at all if we move on from him... i dont want to be in the situation the magic are now with aaron gordon and we control our own pick/will have lotto picks soon, marks drafts well, and i like levert long term at PG/combo gaurd

yeah. i'm starting to accept the fact that we will probably have to do what some people have advocated...start tanking it and use our picks going forward to build the team.

i dont know that its tanking. how many wins does russell add? look at us now vs. when he was out. with or without him there isnt much talent and we are a lotto team next year. unless he made a harden type leap, then nothing would change as far as next year... and if you think he makes that kind of leap then paying him is a no brainer anyhow

[Prokorov]

I don't see why that number keeps getting thrown out with Russell 5/130 for a guy that hasn't even had half a season of major success. That's REALLY jumping the gun. No one's getting that contract without some serious production to back it up.

he is an RFA. top 5 picks who have not been complete busts and have some volume numbers to go on typically get the max especially when they are 22 when they become eligible for that deal.

Russell through 3 seasons is 15/5/4 on 34% from three and has many records for "most by a player before turning 22"

He is going to get paid by someone. if he wasnt an RFA it would be different. worse players have gotten that deal. Even if its 5/100 i think it would stil be better to move on and take picks

[MGrand15]

I don't see why that number keeps getting thrown out with Russell 5/130 for a guy that hasn't even had half a season of major success. That's REALLY jumping the gun. No one's getting that contract without some serious production to back it up.

he is an RFA. top 5 picks who have not been complete busts and have some volume numbers to go on typically get the max especially when they are 22 when they become eligible for that deal.

Russell through 3 seasons is 15/5/4 on 34% from three and has many records for "most by a player before turning 22"

He is going to get paid by someone. if he wasnt an RFA it would be different. worse players have gotten that deal. Even if its 5/100 i think it would stil be better to move on and take picks

Who does that apply to in recent years?

Oladipo and Waiters are probably the closest comparison to Russell. Oladipo took an extension for less than the max. Waiters got significantly less than the max.

If he has an awesome year next year, no doubt he'll get something close to max. If he doesn't, he's not getting the 100 mil or 130 mil off of potential. You need to legitimately produce to get that.

[Prokorov]

Who does that apply to in recent years?

Oladipo and Waiters are probably the closest comparison to Russell. Oladipo took an extension for less than the max. Waiters got significantly less than the max.

If he has an awesome year next year, no doubt he'll get something close to max. If he doesn't, he's not getting the 100 mil or 130 mil off of potential. You need to legitimately produce to get that.

The last 3 classes whose players have been in the NBA long enought to have hit free agency are the 2013, 2012, 2011 classes.

Top 3's:

Bennet, Oladipo, porter
Davis, kidd-gilchrist, beal
Kyrie, derrick williams, kanter

of that list:

stars from get-go: Davis and Kyrie
super busts: Bennet and Williams
Injury ridden: MKG

That leaves:

Oladipo - took a 4 year 84M extension a year before RFA
Porter - got the MAX as an RFA (matched)
Beal - got the MAX as an RFA
Kanter - got the max as ab RFA (Matched)

So basically aside from 2 busts and an injury prone MKG, everyone has gotten the max as an RFA except for oladip who was extended prior to avoid RFA.

the best comparisons are probably beal and oladipo. and thats the situation we are in. basically extend rusell for 4/90 or he gets the max as an RFA at 5/128.

i think its best to avoid that situation and trade him. I dont see why Russell would take a discount on an extension when he can play on the QO and become an RFA. maybe he takes an extension to get his money early, but a discounted extension?

[MGrand15]

Who does that apply to in recent years?

Oladipo and Waiters are probably the closest comparison to Russell. Oladipo took an extension for less than the max. Waiters got significantly less than the max.

If he has an awesome year next year, no doubt he'll get something close to max. If he doesn't, he's not getting the 100 mil or 130 mil off of potential. You need to legitimately produce to get that.

The last 3 classes whose players have been in the NBA long enought to have hit free agency are the 2013, 2012, 2011 classes.

Top 3's:

Bennet, Oladipo, porter
Davis, kidd-gilchrist, beal
Kyrie, derrick williams, kanter

of that list:

stars from get-go: Davis and Kyrie
super busts: Bennet and Williams
Injury ridden: MKG

That leaves:

Oladipo - took a 4 year 84M extension a year before RFA
Porter - got the MAX as an RFA (matched)
Beal - got the MAX as an RFA
Kanter - got the max as ab RFA (Matched)

So basically aside from 2 busts and an injury prone MKG, everyone has gotten the max as an RFA except for oladip who was extended prior to avoid RFA.

the best comparisons are probably beal and oladipo. and thats the situation we are in. basically extend rusell for 4/90 or he gets the max as an RFA at 5/128.

i think its best to avoid that situation and trade him. I dont see why Russell would take a discount on an extension when he can play on the QO and become an RFA. maybe he takes an extension to get his money early, but a discounted extension?

Oladipo took the discounted extension and he didn't have the injury history that Russell has. I think he absolutely takes it if he's still putting up average numbers. It's a worthwhile risk from both sides. Kind of like Curry did with the Warriors.

[Prokorov]

Oladipo took the discounted extension and he didn't have the injury history that Russell has. I think he absolutely takes it if he's still putting up average numbers. It's a worthwhile risk from both sides. Kind of like Curry did with the Warriors.

Oladipo didnt take a discount. he signed the extension, but it wasnt a discounted extension. Russell extension would be in the 5/90M area. even if russell got what oladipo took id still see that as a bad idea that i would be 100% against. as 21 million is not something i want to pay and hope he can become a perrenial all-star.

Also, russell isnt putting up average numbers. historically for someone his age he is putting up very good and in some case record breaking numbers. he is in line with what Beal was putting up. he will absolutely get the most that can be offered to him whether its an extension or an RFA contract.

Curry had just missed nearly an entire season with his 4th ankle injury in 3 years and had serious concerns that it would plague him his entire career. I guess if teams question russells health maybe but to this point that isnt the case.

[MrDollarBills]

yeah, this last 48 hours has severely killed my optimism.

[TheNetsFan]

Who does that apply to in recent years?

Oladipo and Waiters are probably the closest comparison to Russell. Oladipo took an extension for less than the max. Waiters got significantly less than the max.

If he has an awesome year next year, no doubt he'll get something close to max. If he doesn't, he's not getting the 100 mil or 130 mil off of potential. You need to legitimately produce to get that.

The last 3 classes whose players have been in the NBA long enought to have hit free agency are the 2013, 2012, 2011 classes.

Top 3's:

Bennet, Oladipo, porter
Davis, kidd-gilchrist, beal
Kyrie, derrick williams, kanter

of that list:

stars from get-go: Davis and Kyrie
super busts: Bennet and Williams
Injury ridden: MKG

That leaves:

Oladipo - took a 4 year 84M extension a year before RFA
Porter - got the MAX as an RFA (matched)
Beal - got the MAX as an RFA
Kanter - got the max as ab RFA (Matched)

So basically aside from 2 busts and an injury prone MKG, everyone has gotten the max as an RFA except for oladip who was extended prior to avoid RFA.

the best comparisons are probably beal and oladipo. and thats the situation we are in. basically extend rusell for 4/90 or he gets the max as an RFA at 5/128.

i think its best to avoid that situation and trade him. I dont see why Russell would take a discount on an extension when he can play on the QO and become an RFA. maybe he takes an extension to get his money early, but a discounted extension?

Post-rookie contracts are still paid based on forward looking potential. People bashed the Wizards on the Beal extension, and in hindsight it was the right move. Russell will be 23 when he hits RFA, and he'll still be pre-prime by the time his 2nd contract is done. If you believe he still has upside, you can't lose him. As a doormat team, you have to be honest with yourself determine if you honestly believe you can use the cap space to land a player with more potential. We probably can't.

I'm of the belief that we likely can only choose 2 of LeVert, Russell, RHJ & Dinwiddie to commit to long term. If you can lock guys up on value deals, maybe you can squeeze in 3. If I'm betting on those guys, the above is my level of confidence in them becoming truly impactful players, and that's how I'm allocating money.

Due to his slow start & injury history, Curry's 1st extension (4yr, $44mil) was below the max. Of course the cap was only $58mil at that point, but he started at about 17% of the cap. That's a deal I'd point to in negotiations. At 2019's $108mil projected cap, that 17% starting salary would be about $18.4mil in year 1, and $82.7mil over 4 years. That's roughly equivalent to Oladipo's flat 4 year extension. I'd gladly offer Russell a comparable deal.

[Yit]

Tracking players performance against Clippers 4 Mar 2018

CLV - 54 (++++)
Harrris - 34 (++)
DMC - 32 (+)
RHJ - 32 (++)
Cunnigham - 30 (++)
Dinwiddie - 19 (-)
DAR - 9 (--)
Allen - 8 (--)
Crabbe - 6 (--)

CLV was wow, the bench was better - starters were mostly missing except for DMC.