The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

Nemecide · Post #1741 » by **Nemecide** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:14 am

Not to take away anything from DM. He's good, real good.... Ben tho is just on another level that's all... I love the underdog story just like everyone else, but let's not take away anything from what Ben is doing too guys... He's just better...

Black Mage · Post #1742 » by **Black Mage** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:53 am

Jazz_Man_86 wrote:Donovan made him self a superstar. Just smashed pelicans.Again. Willed jazz to the victory once again. This is sick

I am confused, Rubio shoots out of his mind, drops 30,nearly has a triple double and outscored DM, but somehow you attribute this win solely to DM??? Ingles drops 20 and Gobert throws in 19, but it is DM who carried this win. :crazy:

Jazz hero worship is out of control.

Winglish · Post #1743 » by **Winglish** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:57 am

Check out @Lockedonsports’s Tweet:

Read on Twitter

?s=09

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

Winglish · Post #1744 » by **Winglish** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:01 am

Black Mage wrote:
Jazz_Man_86 wrote:Donovan made him self a superstar. Just smashed pelicans.Again. Willed jazz to the victory once again. This is sick

I am confused, Rubio shoots out of his mind, drops 30,nearly has a triple double and outscored DM, but somehow you attribute this win solely to DM??? Ingles drops 20 and Gobert throws in 19, but it is DM who carried this win.

Jazz hero worship is out of control.

Did you WATCH?

Ricky Rubio was fantastic and Gobert/Jingles were both really good.

The game was very tight through the 3rd quarter. Donovan Mitchell had 3 points with 3 minutes left in the third. Mitchell took over in the 4th, finished with 27, and the Jazz won by 17.

This game exemplified why Donovan Mitchell is the 6th highest scorer in the NBA in the 4th quarter. He plays clutch and embraces the big moments.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

mjvile · Post #1745 » by **mjvile** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:02 am

mtron929 wrote:
mjvile wrote:
Kolkmania wrote:
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Simmons is carrying Philly. Rational fans agree that Gobert and Embiid are the MVP's of their team, however multiple players, reporters and TV personalities imply that Mitchell caries the Jazz due to his PPG. That bothers me somehow.

I do think that Simmons is the second most important player on this team, during this winning streak for the Jazz I might lean towards Joe Ingles.

Being the teams leading scorer Mitchell carries the jazz offensively is a true statement, like Gobert carries the Jazz defensively. That is Mitchells role on this team. The next leading scorer on the Jazz is Jae Crowded at 13.5 ppg.

I feel like a lot of the people use this word "carries" to describe what Mitchell is doing with the Jazz that kind of overinflates his contribution. I really feel like one should be more obviously dominant if we want to insinuate that one player is carrying the team's offense. Kind of akin to Dirk carrying the 2011 Mavs or Olajuwon carrying the 94 Rockets. I noticed that A LOT of the Mitchell supporters use this word "carry" like this is some campaign slogan word that would best improve the chances of Mitchell getting more votes.

Sort of like statistical comparisons are out the door so we need to invent some qualitative word tricks to maximize Mitchell's contributions. There is something very disingenuous about how Mitchell fans are constructing this narrative for Mitchell.

What would you call what Donovan did today in the 3rd and fourth quarter? Seems to me he carried his team offensively to get and maintain the lead and get the win.

JAYZGOAT · Post #1746 » by **JAYZGOAT** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:03 am

Weren't the Jazz a 50 win team last season? Sixers won like 28 games last year lol. I am not quite understanding the Mitchell is leading a playoff team angle.

Catchall · Post #1747 » by **Catchall** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:04 am

Jazz_Man_86 wrote:Donovan made him self a superstar. Just smashed pelicans.Again. Willed jazz to the victory once again. This is sick

Mitchell with a 15-point burst in less than 3 minutes to turn the game.

Watch on YouTube

Catchall · Post #1748 » by **Catchall** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:18 am

Panic610 wrote:Weren't the Jazz a 50 win team last season? Sixers won like 28 games last year lol. I am not quite understanding the Mitchell is leading a playoff team angle.

Yeah, they had 51 wins last year, but then they lost Hayward, lost Hill and were 9 games under .500 half way through the season. Mitchell is their leading scorer, their leading usage player, and almost all their offense goes through him in crunch time.

A big part of the Jazz's success though is Gobert. They've been the #1 defense in the league since he came back from injury. I think they're top 5 or 6 for the season as a whole. Gobert is also a big part of their offense too.

Black Mage · Post #1749 » by **Black Mage** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:35 am

Winglish wrote:
Black Mage wrote:
Jazz_Man_86 wrote:Donovan made him self a superstar. Just smashed pelicans.Again. Willed jazz to the victory once again. This is sick

I am confused, Rubio shoots out of his mind, drops 30,nearly has a triple double and outscored DM, but somehow you attribute this win solely to DM??? Ingles drops 20 and Gobert throws in 19, but it is DM who carried this win.

Jazz hero worship is out of control.
Did you WATCH?

Ricky Rubio was fantastic and Gobert/Jingles were both really good.

The game was very tight through the 3rd quarter. Donovan Mitchell had 3 points with 3 minutes left in the third. Mitchell took over in the 4th, finished with 27, and the Jazz won by 17.

This game exemplified why Donovan Mitchell is the 6th highest scorer in the NBA in the 4th quarter. He plays clutch and embraces the big moments.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

You are missing my point. This wasn't a game where no other Jazz player had it going and only DM got going to carry them to a win. Rubio scored 2x above his season average, Ingles and Gobert were both 8 or more points above season average.

The Jazz don't win by 17 and likely would have lost without those guys going off. Yes DM scoring late helped secure the win but it hardly carried the team. If anything, the Jazz teammates carried DM until he got hot.

But please, continue your hero worship, nothing wrong with that.

Jazz_Man_86 · Post #1750 » by **Jazz_Man_86** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:37 am

Black Mage wrote:
Jazz_Man_86 wrote:Donovan made him self a superstar. Just smashed pelicans.Again. Willed jazz to the victory once again. This is sick

I am confused, Rubio shoots out of his mind, drops 30,nearly has a triple double and outscored DM, but somehow you attribute this win solely to DM??? Ingles drops 20 and Gobert throws in 19, but it is DM who carried this win.

Jazz hero worship is out of control.

Please watch game man...

Trugger · Post #1751 » by **Trugger** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:21 am

Jazz_Man_86 wrote:
Black Mage wrote:
Jazz_Man_86 wrote:Donovan made him self a superstar. Just smashed pelicans.Again. Willed jazz to the victory once again. This is sick

I am confused, Rubio shoots out of his mind, drops 30,nearly has a triple double and outscored DM, but somehow you attribute this win solely to DM??? Ingles drops 20 and Gobert throws in 19, but it is DM who carried this win.

Jazz hero worship is out of control.

Please watch game man...

Scored 7 points in the last few minutes when Jazz had a double digit lead ,, Simmons would have been sitting !!!

longwayhome · Post #1752 » by **longwayhome** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:03 am

Trugger wrote:
Jazz_Man_86 wrote:
Black Mage wrote:

I am confused, Rubio shoots out of his mind, drops 30,nearly has a triple double and outscored DM, but somehow you attribute this win solely to DM??? Ingles drops 20 and Gobert throws in 19, but it is DM who carried this win.

Jazz hero worship is out of control.

Please watch game man...

Scored 7 points in the last few minutes when Jazz had a double digit lead ,, Simmons would have been sitting !!!

The Jazz are hungry for DM to get ROTY, can’t blame them though he's a talent. But agreed, Sixers would've definitely sat Simmons for the quarter (they’ve done that a few times this year) like they did today against the Nets. Think he only played a minute or so.
Even the Lakers sit out Lonzo alot in fourth quarters.

LordCovington33 · Post #1753 » by **LordCovington33** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:28 am

Winglish wrote:Check out @Lockedonsports’s Tweet:

Read on Twitter
?s=09

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

He leads the team in usage, but he also has a bad ORtg/DRtg.

added:
DM
ORtg: 103
DRtg: 106

By contrast, Gobert has an incredible ORtg 122 and DRtg 100. Utah's chance of winning increases dramatically every time Gobert touches the ball, both offensively and defensively.

mtron929 · Post #1754 » by **mtron929** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:36 am

mjvile wrote:
mtron929 wrote:
mjvile wrote:
Being the teams leading scorer Mitchell carries the jazz offensively is a true statement, like Gobert carries the Jazz defensively. That is Mitchells role on this team. The next leading scorer on the Jazz is Jae Crowded at 13.5 ppg.

I feel like a lot of the people use this word "carries" to describe what Mitchell is doing with the Jazz that kind of overinflates his contribution. I really feel like one should be more obviously dominant if we want to insinuate that one player is carrying the team's offense. Kind of akin to Dirk carrying the 2011 Mavs or Olajuwon carrying the 94 Rockets. I noticed that A LOT of the Mitchell supporters use this word "carry" like this is some campaign slogan word that would best improve the chances of Mitchell getting more votes.

Sort of like statistical comparisons are out the door so we need to invent some qualitative word tricks to maximize Mitchell's contributions. There is something very disingenuous about how Mitchell fans are constructing this narrative for Mitchell.

What would you call what Donovan did today in the 3rd and fourth quarter? Seems to me he carried his team offensively to get and maintain the lead and get the win.

A lot of the players can "carry" a team in a short span of time. Many of the posts here have insinuated that Mitchell has carried the Utah offense the whole year, which is an overinflated claim. Usually these types of "carrying" is associated with truly one-man offense like Westbrook last year, Dirk in 2011, Kobe in 2006, etc.

SkyHook · Post #1755 » by **SkyHook** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:48 am

longwayhome wrote:
Trugger wrote:
Jazz_Man_86 wrote:
Please watch game man...

Scored 7 points in the last few minutes when Jazz had a double digit lead ,, Simmons would have been sitting !!!

The Jazz are hungry for DM to get ROTY, can’t blame them though he's a talent. But agreed, Sixers would've definitely sat Simmons for the quarter (they’ve done that a few times this year) like they did today against the Nets. Think he only played a minute or so.
Even the Lakers sit out Lonzo alot in fourth quarters.

What game were you watching? The game was in single digits for most of the 4th and it was a single digit lead with under two minutes to play. Rubio makes a three, putting the Jazz up 12 with 1:50 to play. Mitchell comes out of the game 71 seconds later. If you don’t want to watch the game you can still read the play-by-play before you start spouting nonsense. There’s absolutely no way that the Sixers would have sat Simmons only up six points to start the 4th against an in-conference team leading them in the standings (six spots ahead).

Despite being a Jazz fan and how much I would love to have Mitchell win ROY, I’ve still got Simmons in the lead. But it’s damned close. Over the All-Star break with no games to watch I went back and watched Sixers games, specifically to get a better feel for Simmons. He’s a transcendent player. The Simmons/Mitchell dynamic reminds me of the LeBron/Wade dynamic in 03-04, but far more closely contested. Both are going to be extraordinary talents in the league for years to come.

Trugger · Post #1756 » by **Trugger** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:47 am

SkyHook wrote:
longwayhome wrote:
Trugger wrote:
Scored 7 points in the last few minutes when Jazz had a double digit lead ,, Simmons would have been sitting !!!

The Jazz are hungry for DM to get ROTY, can’t blame them though he's a talent. But agreed, Sixers would've definitely sat Simmons for the quarter (they’ve done that a few times this year) like they did today against the Nets. Think he only played a minute or so.
Even the Lakers sit out Lonzo alot in fourth quarters.

What game were you watching? The game was in single digits for most of the 4th and it was a single digit lead with under two minutes to play. Rubio makes a three, putting the Jazz up 12 with 1:50 to play. Mitchell comes out of the game 71 seconds later. If you don’t want to watch the game you can still read the play-by-play before you start spouting nonsense. There’s absolutely no way that the Sixers would have sat Simmons only up six points to start the 4th against an in-conference team leading them in the standings (six spots ahead).

Despite being a Jazz fan and how much I would love to have Mitchell win ROY, I’ve still got Simmons in the lead. But it’s damned close. Over the All-Star break with no games to watch I went back and watched Sixers games, specifically to get a better feel for Simmons. He’s a transcendent player. The Simmons/Mitchell dynamic reminds me of the LeBron/Wade dynamic in 03-04, but far more closely contested. Both are going to be extraordinary talents in the league for years to come.

5:32 left in the 4th ,, Jazz up by 13 !!

Tabasco · Post #1757 » by **Tabasco** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:49 am

Black Mage wrote:
Winglish wrote:
Black Mage wrote:

I am confused, Rubio shoots out of his mind, drops 30,nearly has a triple double and outscored DM, but somehow you attribute this win solely to DM??? Ingles drops 20 and Gobert throws in 19, but it is DM who carried this win.

Jazz hero worship is out of control.
Did you WATCH?

Ricky Rubio was fantastic and Gobert/Jingles were both really good.

The game was very tight through the 3rd quarter. Donovan Mitchell had 3 points with 3 minutes left in the third. Mitchell took over in the 4th, finished with 27, and the Jazz won by 17.

This game exemplified why Donovan Mitchell is the 6th highest scorer in the NBA in the 4th quarter. He plays clutch and embraces the big moments.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

You are missing my point. This wasn't a game where no other Jazz player had it going and only DM got going to carry them to a win. Rubio scored 2x above his season average, Ingles and Gobert were both 8 or more points above season average.

The Jazz don't win by 17 and likely would have lost without those guys going off. Yes DM scoring late helped secure the win but it hardly carried the team. If anything, the Jazz teammates carried DM until he got hot.

But please, continue your hero worship, nothing wrong with that.

If you didn't watch the game, and you clearly didn't, you should probably keep your trap shut. Mitchell absolutely carried the team in the second half. He was unbelievable.

QPR · Post #1758 » by **QPR** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:51 am

It's not "damned close" unless you're trying to create a race.

Nate505 · Post #1759 » by **Nate505** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:26 am

If I were to listen to the clowns here who yack about stats and nothing else, the Jazz were pretty stupid to leave Mitchell in in the 2nd half. Neto would have been a much better option.

Nate505 · Post #1760 » by **Nate505** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:31 am

Trugger wrote:
Jazz_Man_86 wrote:
Black Mage wrote:

I am confused, Rubio shoots out of his mind, drops 30,nearly has a triple double and outscored DM, but somehow you attribute this win solely to DM??? Ingles drops 20 and Gobert throws in 19, but it is DM who carried this win.

Jazz hero worship is out of control.

Please watch game man...

Scored 7 points in the last few minutes when Jazz had a double digit lead ,, Simmons would have been sitting !!!

If you're sitting one of your best players against a team ahead of you in the standings in a game that can give you a tiebreaker over them, you are one dumb **** coach.

Who wins? (May select 2 options.)