2018 Trade Ideas thread

[LeCalinou]

those three straight years, OKC landed 3 perennial MVP candidates year after year after year. do you understand the odds of such a thing? and they still **** it up, because they chose ibaka (and team fit) over harden

compare that to our core, how many look like contenders for the MVP? how many look like they have the potential to become perennial all-stars, let alone compete for the MVP? maybe ingram, if he continues on the KD path, but even then he'd be a lesser KD. maybe lonzo, if the allstar guard depth ever lets up, this ain't rondo and the leastern conference here

now to win, you know we need allstars, probably a first ballot HoF or two and most importantly, luck.

this is no time to be choosy beggars, the only way patience is the key, is if we strike out on lebron and george, so we're forced to be patient

OKC got stuck in the "play with a legitimate Center, if you can call Kendrick Perkins that" dilemma, and would not give Harden an extra 2 million per year. In my opinion, he was a poor fit next to Harden and KD, but the approach with very good players is to keep them at whatever price and then see...
Getting back to the Lakers, by patience I mean not jumping the gun, trying to get somebody - anybody to sign. The side moves I've quoted actually put them in the position to get better with young players and sign or trade for expiring contracts (Lopez, KCP, Frye, Brewer). That's 55 million you get off the cap in one summer.
Let's say just one FA comes on board, I'd still take my chances and operate some 10-15 million under the cap, maybe they get lucky and a player like Marc Gasol becomes available. You trade some decent pieces, and there you go...

I wouldn't underestimate the value of the Cleveland pick. For 4 years now, the scouting department has done its job and the Lakers have gotten good to great value late in the 1st round or early second.
Think Clarkson, Nance, Zubac, Hart, Kuzma. The only miss was Anthony Brown.
If they get another contributor there, having the Cleveland pick and Denver's second, maybe they can buy another late pick from somebody like Portland who is over the cap.

In conclusion, it's small and savvy moves like this that put you in the position of winning, competing for FA and competing for championships eventually.

[larry14r]

those three straight years, OKC landed 3 perennial MVP candidates year after year after year. do you understand the odds of such a thing? and they still **** it up, because they chose ibaka (and team fit) over harden

compare that to our core, how many look like contenders for the MVP? how many look like they have the potential to become perennial all-stars, let alone compete for the MVP? maybe ingram, if he continues on the KD path, but even then he'd be a lesser KD. maybe lonzo, if the allstar guard depth ever lets up, this ain't rondo and the leastern conference here

now to win, you know we need allstars, probably a first ballot HoF or two and most importantly, luck.

this is no time to be choosy beggars, the only way patience is the key, is if we strike out on lebron and george, so we're forced to be patient

OKC got stuck in the "play with a legitimate Center, if you can call Kendrick Perkins that" dilemma, and would not give Harden an extra 2 million per year. In my opinion, he was a poor fit next to Harden and KD, but the approach with very good players is to keep them at whatever price and then see...
Getting back to the Lakers, by patience I mean not jumping the gun, trying to get somebody - anybody to sign. The side moves I've quoted actually put them in the position to get better with young players and sign or trade for expiring contracts (Lopez, KCP, Frye, Brewer). That's 55 million you get off the cap in one summer.
Let's say just one FA comes on board, I'd still take my chances and operate some 10-15 million under the cap, maybe they get lucky and a player like Marc Gasol becomes available. You trade some decent pieces, and there you go...

I wouldn't underestimate the value of the Cleveland pick. For 4 years now, the scouting department has done its job and the Lakers have gotten good to great value late in the 1st round or early second.
Think Clarkson, Nance, Zubac, Hart, Kuzma. The only miss was Anthony Brown.
If they get another contributor there, having the Cleveland pick and Denver's second, maybe they can buy another late pick from somebody like Portland who is over the cap.

In conclusion, it's small and savvy moves like this that put you in the position of winning, competing for FA and competing for championships eventually.

The reason why they got Perkins is to deal with the Lakers size (Bynum, Odom, and Gasol).

[danfantastk32]

There is a problem with this "patience" issue...and that is that we have to start re-signing our young guys eventually.

I personally think we can resign Randle....and still get two max FA. They might have to take a hair-cut, but maybe not even. I think we take care of that by stretching Deng. Would be a 5-year stretch if we did this offseason. Not super into that.

If we were to get 1 FA this year, resign Randle....and then get another FA the following year, that would be ideal. I think it will be easier to ship out Deng with only 1 year on his deal. We will have our first-rounder...something can be done. Worst case: stretch...3 years. Get your 2nd Max player.

After that. Lonzo is up....Ingram is up.....Kuzma is up....Hart is up. Your gonna want to take care of your stars, btw. So, in my opinion, we have this offseason, and then the next to get our stars. After that...it's all about "resigning".

One of my issues with Lebron is this very point. If we keep him for 4 years....we won't be able to sign someone else when he retires/leaves. Or worse...we're now paying big-bucks for a 38 year old. Yeah....Kareem played till he was 40....but folks kinda forget the last 2-3 years.

If this team wants to really build a dominant dynasty-type team...then they need to pick the right players.....but they also only have this year and next to do it. I would sign PG....and I would try for either Klay or A-Davis (admittedly both are pretty long shots) the following year. But if they do decide to get Lebron....I understand. Cross your fingers he's still a good player 3-4 years from now.


PS to Landsberger: "TRADED" for Kobe?? Come on now. Yes....we traded Divac for the Hornet's first round pick, but it was already agreed before the draft, and it was a pick of our choosing...and a kid who never played a second there. Your REALLY REALLY hittin the fine print calling that a "trade"....and in no way can you apply that to the logic that he wasn't a rookie that we developed. To try and lump Kobe in with Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, Pau, as stars we "trade" for doesn't fly. Truth is...its seems every generation we tend to do a little of both: West and Wilt. Kareem and Magic / Worthy....and yes....Shaq and Kobe. We drafted Kobe. You know it, I know it.....hit the fine, fine print all you want.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

I think patience is only important if LA strikes out on 2 max guys. Overpaying Randle, IT, Lopez and KCP would be a disaster.

[Dr Aki]

Preaching patience the past few years meant striking out on KD, Gasol, LMA etc. Patience isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Yes, we've grown emotionally attached. But we'll grow emotionally attached to the team if it wins, full stop. I feel like these 5 years, fans have finally gotten to experience what it really is like rooting for perennial cellar dwellers and their supposed young cores.

This is a business and the Lakers are in the business of winning. Did GSW hesitate to add Durant to their core over Harrison Barnes? This is the exact same question we're asking Laker fans if they're willing to lose Randle to get LeBron and George.

Yes, it'll feel cheap the first couple of wins of the season, but after sitting on top of the standings for a couple of weeks (and not dropping off), you guys will come around.

[Landsberger]

PS to Landsberger: "TRADED" for Kobe?? Come on now. Yes....we traded Divac for the Hornet's first round pick, but it was already agreed before the draft, and it was a pick of our choosing...and a kid who never played a second there. Your REALLY REALLY hittin the fine print calling that a "trade"....and in no way can you apply that to the logic that he wasn't a rookie that we developed. To try and lump Kobe in with Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, Pau, as stars we "trade" for doesn't fly. Truth is...its seems every generation we tend to do a little of both: West and Wilt. Kareem and Magic / Worthy....and yes....Shaq and Kobe. We drafted Kobe. You know it, I know it.....hit the fine, fine print all you want.

Yup. We traded for him..... Magic, Worthy, Wilt, Pau, Lamar, Rice and Kareem too. Those picks were not ours. Each time we changed our team by trading away value to get value. Not sure how it can be different. We gave a team something and got something back. That's a trade because I don't know another name for it. Kuzma is the same as well.

What do you call it? Devine intervention? Sure we knew who we wanted but we had to find a way to TRADE for it. We had to find a willing parter who needed something we had. If we didn't do that Kobe would NOT have been a Laker. My guess is that he would have developed just the same elsewhere too. Do you think that all trades are made in a few minutes dude? So what we had an agreement before the draft..... so do a lot of teams. We're not unique in that.

You took a jump in saying that I was asserting that we didn't develop him. Not my point at all. Show me where my point was in anyway "development". I was pointing out that our great teams were a mix of players we drafted and ones we decided to ADD TO THE MIX by Trade or FA. Further, I was pointing out that to just draft and wait isn't what we've done..... EVER. Each of our big runs we've had central figures who came to us via trade or FA. How did that happen you might say..... well, it's because we had assets to trade. Why did we do it? Because we looked at balance, leadership and talent in that order. Our worst days as a franchise have been when we reversed that order. I assert that we have some decent pieces but we lack balance (shooting, rebounding and key bench pieces), we don't have leadership (and no, I don't think Ingram pounding the ball at the end of quarters to drive the ball is leadership). We do have talent. My guess is that Magic does understand the balance and leadership aspects better than a lot of people and we will try and move in those directions moving forward.

[larry14r]

Preaching patience the past few years meant striking out on KD, Gasol, LMA etc. Patience isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Yes, we've grown emotionally attached. But we'll grow emotionally attached to the team if it wins, full stop. I feel like these 5 years, fans have finally gotten to experience what it really is like rooting for perennial cellar dwellers and their supposed young cores.

This is a business and the Lakers are in the business of winning. Did GSW hesitate to add Durant to their core over Harrison Barnes? This is the exact same question we're asking Laker fans if they're willing to lose Randle to get LeBron and George.

Yes, it'll feel cheap the first couple of wins of the season, but after sitting on top of the standings for a couple of weeks (and not dropping off), you guys will come around.

And then GS most likely beats out asses in the playoffs that's the real coming around will come. Unless we have an answer for them we're still screwed.

[Dr Aki]

Preaching patience the past few years meant striking out on KD, Gasol, LMA etc. Patience isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Yes, we've grown emotionally attached. But we'll grow emotionally attached to the team if it wins, full stop. I feel like these 5 years, fans have finally gotten to experience what it really is like rooting for perennial cellar dwellers and their supposed young cores.

This is a business and the Lakers are in the business of winning. Did GSW hesitate to add Durant to their core over Harrison Barnes? This is the exact same question we're asking Laker fans if they're willing to lose Randle to get LeBron and George.

Yes, it'll feel cheap the first couple of wins of the season, but after sitting on top of the standings for a couple of weeks (and not dropping off), you guys will come around.

And then GS most likely beats out asses in the playoffs that's the real coming around will come. Unless we have an answer for them we're still screwed.

True, but it's better to have a viable base camp to reach the top of the mountain than to climb it from the actual foot of the mountain.

That said. No-one has an answer for Curry, but we still need to try

[miltk]

Perusing the board, i am surprised this is not a topic but it may evolve into a serious one.

I like randle,,,always have, and i'm NOT a kentucky fan. but people may have forgotten but randle was part of a glory high faluttin' trio of wiggins/randle/parker of whom i believe randle is now the hands down winner. randle in hs was a youtube hilite player, so he always had the skills/athleticism. he's a skilled big with blue collar work ethic and that is a very rare thing. it's rare to see any skilled whatever w/ a blue collar grind.

anywho,,,, in the beginning when everyone got infatuated with kuzma it was well known that the untouchables were kuzma, ball, and ingram. since that time when it became abundantly clear, it was like randle decided to show everyone how much he loves living in los angeles, and he started working HARD to make it right. he got married and looks like he wants to raise his kids there. lol

now, for MY money, a high skillset + blue collar work ethic is a very very very rare thing that you just don't get rid of. mainly,,,EVERY TEAM needs a blue collar guy, but when that guy has skills(see draymond green) you sit up and take notice. that's the unicorn right there. not some dainty mofo who spends all his days crafting his skills at the perimeter.

IF, and now i don't think it'll happen, lal gets rid of randle they will regret it for the rest of their lives. randle will only get better as he gets older more mature and the league gets younger and daintier. he will not slow down and the game will NOT pass him by because he has elite skills - so good in fact i hope he DOESN'T develop a 3pt shot and become like everyone else.

addendum...randle has similar numbers to draymond, only 2apg less and 6% 3pth less, but a better rpg. not green's D, granted, but he's lal's matchup to draymond

[RamonSessions7]

A randle v kuzma debate does not really exists because of current skill set, it's that productive players on rookie contracts are ridiculously valuable and randle is about to be off that.

[evilpimp972]

My fear is your last sentence lol
I mean, in his league, how many guys have develop a 3 pt shot? Even Dedmon (who didnt attempt any 3 pt shot with the spurs) is now shooting 37 % with ATL.
Say we let him go, than watch him somehow develop a shot, you already know the beast he'll be if he does

[miltk]

My fear is your last sentence lol
I mean, in his league, how many guys have develop a 3 pt shot? Even Dedmon (who didnt attempt any 3 pt shot with the spurs) is now shooting 37 % with ATL.
Say we let him go, than watch home somehow develop a shot, you already know the beast he'll be if he does

he's not far off from draymond i'm tellin ya. and everybody can develop a 3 if they put their mind to it and JR is no slouch

[miltk]

A randle v kuzma debate does not really exists because of current skill set, it's that productive players on rookie contracts are ridiculously valuable and randle is about to be off that.

admittedly, all this monies stuff is over my head but this is la, not okc. just how much does the org want it.

[danfantastk32]

Yup. We traded for him..... Magic, Worthy, Wilt, Pau, Lamar, Rice and Kareem too. Those picks were not ours.What do you call it?

We traded for the right to draft him. We drafted Kobe. You know it, and I know it. The fact that there were formalities is just that. The hornets picked the guy we asked them to pick....and we got him the second the pick was made. We traded Divac for the Hornets #13 draft pick. This was all agreed to weeks before the draft.

You took a jump in saying that I was asserting that we didn't develop him. Not my point at all.

Your quote: "The Lakers previous title runs all included players we traded for and FA's. We traded for Kobe and signed Shaq. Kareem was traded for. Wilt was traded for." <-------- kinda feels like your lumping Kobe in that mix, does it not?

We "drafted Kobe" (traded for the right to draft him....whatever you wanna call it) and he counts as one of those guys we developed through the draft. He certainly more than counts that way through the spirit of the argument your making. Would you say we "traded for" whoever this Cavs pick turns out to be?

Yes...we did sign guys like Shaq and Kareem. But we drafted guys like Magic and Kobe. It's been a bit of both.

My personal opinion: The Lakers seem to draft, and then sign FA big men to surround them. Sometimes not in that order.

[Penberthy]

OKC is the perfect example of waiting.... well maybe not. They had 3 players who are better than anyone we've drafted and then added a really good player in Ibaka to that mix and still couldn't get to a conference final. 3 MVP's potentially and yet no championship. That should tell you a lot about how hard it is to create a championship culture and team right there.

Waiting for Ingram, Ball and Randle to become anywhere close to those 3 will be futile. They didn't have a clear leader and we don't is about the only similarity I see. It's the most important distinction as well.

There is always an irrational part of this where fans love the idea of seeing their teams players develop into superstars. Every team has fans that believe their players are those guys and that any outside help is somehow polluting the greatness of their guys. Great teams are chemistry first and players second. 2004 Detroit showed us that first hand. 2008 Celtics as well.

You can't draft chemistry and you can't draft balance. Our team is imbalanced in several key areas and lacks leadership. These have to be built and acquired. Waiting doesn't create either.

The FO wants to move fast to being relevant again. This offseason they can do that if they bring in LeBron IMHO. I'm not a huge fan of his and adding a mid-30's superstar has it's issues but this team needs that kind of guy here and the owners want to be back as quickly as possible. My guess it that he's our primary target and we go all in. The cost could be Randle but my guess is that the ownership would still do it in a heartbeat.

The reason OKC never got to a conference finals is because they have a point guard who would rather take a contested double teamed jumper than passing to a wide open Kevin Durant. Which is why he left.

We will never have that problem as long as Ball is our PG.

[Penberthy]

those three straight years, OKC landed 3 perennial MVP candidates year after year after year. do you understand the odds of such a thing? and they still **** it up, because they chose ibaka (and team fit) over harden

compare that to our core, how many look like contenders for the MVP? how many look like they have the potential to become perennial all-stars, let alone compete for the MVP? maybe ingram, if he continues on the KD path, but even then he'd be a lesser KD. maybe lonzo, if the allstar guard depth ever lets up, this ain't rondo and the leastern conference here

now to win, you know we need allstars, probably a first ballot HoF or two and most importantly, luck.

this is no time to be choosy beggars, the only way patience is the key, is if we strike out on lebron and george, so we're forced to be patient

Westbrook was 15.3 5.3 4.9 his rookie year, Harden was 9.9 1.8 3.2. You want to compare that to Lonzo's rookie year? I'd take Lonzo if we're betting on future MVPs all day. Durant on the other hand, i'll give you, although Ingram is starting look look more and more like him with each passing day, with the potential to be a better play maker and defender. We just smashed Lebrons team without Ingram or Lebron on our team. I really don't think the decision will be that difficult for him, especially if he wants to play another 5-6 years so he can be on his son's team. I could easily see him swallowing his pride and going the reduced roll/deferral/tim duncan way in order to extend his career.

Ball (32) Vet (16)
Ingram (32) Hart (16)
George (32) Lebron (16)
Lebron (16) Randle (32)
Vet ZuBryantKuzMe

[Dr Aki]

those three straight years, OKC landed 3 perennial MVP candidates year after year after year. do you understand the odds of such a thing? and they still **** it up, because they chose ibaka (and team fit) over harden

compare that to our core, how many look like contenders for the MVP? how many look like they have the potential to become perennial all-stars, let alone compete for the MVP? maybe ingram, if he continues on the KD path, but even then he'd be a lesser KD. maybe lonzo, if the allstar guard depth ever lets up, this ain't rondo and the leastern conference here

now to win, you know we need allstars, probably a first ballot HoF or two and most importantly, luck.

this is no time to be choosy beggars, the only way patience is the key, is if we strike out on lebron and george, so we're forced to be patient

Westbrook was 15.3 5.3 4.9 his rookie year, Harden was 9.9 1.8 3.2. You want to compare that to Lonzo's rookie year? I'd take Lonzo if we're betting on future MVPs all day. Durant on the other hand, i'll give you, although Ingram is starting look look more and more like him with each passing day, with the potential to be a better play maker and defender. We just smashed Lebrons team without Ingram or Lebron on our team. I really don't think the decision will be that difficult for him, especially if he wants to play another 5-6 years so he can be on his son's team. I could easily see him swallowing his pride and going the reduced roll/deferral/tim duncan way in order to extend his career.

Ball (32) Vet (16)
Ingram (32) Hart (16)
George (32) Lebron (16)
Lebron (16) Randle (32)
Vet ZuBryantKuzMe

There's no reason to think that because OKC were able to draft 3 perennial MVP candidates, and that those players weren't instant stars, that Lonzo and Kuz and whoever else we have are destined to be all stars.

If that's what you're projecting the kids to become, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

That's not how projection works, that's not how any of this works

[Penberthy]

so profound..... lolol

Lonzo is the first player to look like J Kidd since J Kidd. That says enough for me.

[evilpimp972]

OKC is the perfect example of waiting.... well maybe not. They had 3 players who are better than anyone we've drafted and then added a really good player in Ibaka to that mix and still couldn't get to a conference final. 3 MVP's potentially and yet no championship. That should tell you a lot about how hard it is to create a championship culture and team right there.

Waiting for Ingram, Ball and Randle to become anywhere close to those 3 will be futile. They didn't have a clear leader and we don't is about the only similarity I see. It's the most important distinction as well.

There is always an irrational part of this where fans love the idea of seeing their teams players develop into superstars. Every team has fans that believe their players are those guys and that any outside help is somehow polluting the greatness of their guys. Great teams are chemistry first and players second. 2004 Detroit showed us that first hand. 2008 Celtics as well.

You can't draft chemistry and you can't draft balance. Our team is imbalanced in several key areas and lacks leadership. These have to be built and acquired. Waiting doesn't create either.

The FO wants to move fast to being relevant again. This offseason they can do that if they bring in LeBron IMHO. I'm not a huge fan of his and adding a mid-30's superstar has it's issues but this team needs that kind of guy here and the owners want to be back as quickly as possible. My guess it that he's our primary target and we go all in. The cost could be Randle but my guess is that the ownership would still do it in a heartbeat.

The reason OKC never got to a conference finals is because they have a point guard who would rather take a contested double teamed jumper than passing to a wide open Kevin Durant. Which is why he left.

We will never have that problem as long as Ball is our PG.

OKC went to the finals, not sure what you guys are talking about?
They also went to the conference finals and nearly beat a 73 win team

The reason they lost this series, wasn't WB, who dominated nearly every game they played at home.
KD choke (just like he did last night vs the wolves), shot horribly, turned the ball over like crazy (more TOs than assists).
It's crazy how WB takes all the blame. But if KD played like the average KD, they would've won that serie. But he choked and left right away.

[Optms]

I don't know about this Randle or Kuzma business but Randle is finally fulfilling the potential many perceived of him coming out of Kentucky. It just took several seasons. But what a beast.