The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[Jazztop]

It should be Mitchell imo. I think Mitchell is on a less talented team and if they make the playoffs which could be the wrong move in the long run, I think Mitchell totally deserves to be ROY.

Making the playoffs isn’t the ‘wrong move’ it’s the right move. The Jazz have a talented roster and at full strength can make some noise in the postseason.

Apart from that, I basically agree. DM is putting the ball in the hoop and once again has done that at a high level.

[Cool Runnings]

I watched the Jazz game today and Donovan Mitchell showed something u don’t see in normal rookies, superstar ability. Sure the other players kept the jazz in the game, but DM just flicked the switch and turned the game like superstars do. I’m not saying he is there yet, but he has that potential and u definitely don’t see rookies do what he did today and what he has done all year long. They don’t go close so winning the game without him. I am Aussie and a big Ben Simmons supporter, but to me Mitchell is rookie of the year or at least co rookie of the year. Jazz have the same record as the 76ers, in a tougher conference and carrying a bigger load i.e. he doesn’t have teammates with the same level of offensive talent than what Ben does. Those bagging Mitchell and I assume mainly 76ers fans probably haven’t watched many jazz games and just look at the box score.

[Tomjas]

As an Australian, my young son is a massive fan of Simmons and we watch as many games as we can

If the season were to finish today, I'd have no problem with Mitchell winning ROTY as he has been excellent and exceeded all expectations

While Simmons is putting up "historic" (jeez I hate that term) numbers, anyone that has watched him over the years isn't really surprised and that, coupled with the fact he sat out last season, will count against him as there is no "wow" factor

One thing that I will point out is that Simmons is already elite on defence (he is literally light years in front of Donovan in that regard) and pure athletic ability/ball IQ will probably see him rated higher at the end of their respective careers

[Hedda Gambler]

One thing that I will point out is that Simmons is already elite on defence (he is literally light years in front of Donovan in that regard) and pure athletic ability/ball IQ will probably see him rated higher at the end of their respective careers

I see most fans stating this as a fact and was quite surprised to hear on the Dunc`d On Podcast that Nate and Danny thinks Donovan is the better defender, while Simmons is more impactful on D.

[Cool Runnings]

The other thing that someone pointed out on Mitchell today is that there have not been too many rookies that have led their team in usage rate and then led their team to +.500 record and also led their team to the playoffs. Mitchell has the opportunity to do this. In my mind he has been the most impactful rookie.

[PLO]

One thing that I will point out is that Simmons is already elite on defence (he is literally light years in front of Donovan in that regard) and pure athletic ability/ball IQ will probably see him rated higher at the end of their respective careers

I see most fans stating this as a fact and was quite surprised to hear on the Dunc`d On Podcast that Nate and Danny thinks Donovan is the better defender, while Simmons is more impactful on D.

Nate Duncan has said this several times through the season but the numbers do not back up that argument. He also intimated in the podcast you are talking about that Simmons' defensive prowess was down to his height, as if that was a slight on Simmons that he can guard one through 5, which is an awesome argument. Like if Shaq was 6 foot tall instead of 7 he'd be the same player, or Michael Jordan couldn't jump as high he wouldn't be a superstar etc.

Mitchell was by some ways a better defender in college than Simmons, and this is what these guys I think are holding on to. There's not a snow flakes chance in hell Mitchell is the better defender than Simmons is now and I think it can be definitively stated will ever be in the NBA. Mitchell holds his own, that's what can be said about him on that end, which to be fair is a lot better than most other rookies not named Ben Simmons.

[UcanUwill]

It should be Mitchell imo. I think Mitchell is on a less talented team and if they make the playoffs which could be the wrong move in the long run, I think Mitchell totally deserves to be ROY.

Less talented is debatable. On paper, that team looked intriguing, but the biggest worry was scoring, as it has all these defensive players. Rubio, Gobert, Ingles are legit good player with intangible games. Mitchell was just exactly what they needed, someone who can score some points. I would say Mitchell got really lucky with this Jazz team.

[Young gun 6]

Mitchell has been great and there’s nothing people can say to discredit him. However, Ben Simmons is the rightful Rookie of The Year and I hope that gets agreed upon by the voters too.

[millslapper]

Both are great.
Simmons will probably get it, which is right, but the NBA might change it from now, that players who are injured for their first year do not count as a rookie.
it is a BIG BIG difference to get used to the pro level, even when sitting out (for intelligent players like Simmons probably even better, who knows)

another thing i noticed:

this year might be one of the best draft classes ever and the ROTY race is tight with 2 fascinating players, but both are not the best player on their team. so i ask the audience:

When was the last time, that there was such a race?
two clear favorites, but both not the teams best player

(last year does not count, Embiid was in the running)

[QPR]

Was there this much conversation about changing the rules when Griffin won it over Wall and Cousins?

[SmartWentCrazy]

Tatum had a pretty good game yesterday vs Indy— it was especially interesting because Horford and Brown were out and Kyrie sat out the second half:

19-5-3-1-2 in 34 minutes. Shot 5-11, 2-4 from 3 and 7-8 from the line. Been playing much better the last 10 games or so and seems to be getting through the rookie wall.

For anyone interested in how he’d do if he had an increased role this season, Kyrie and Brown should be out for the next week. Interested to see how he performs.

[AGE1207]

I am ok with Simmons as ROTY. I just hate the arrogance of the "it's not even a race" - people.

[cl2117]

Tatum had a pretty good game yesterday vs Indy— it was especially interesting because Horford and Brown were out and Kyrie sat out the second half:

19-5-3-1-2 in 34 minutes. Shot 5-11, 2-4 from 3 and 7-8 from the line. Been playing much better the last 10 games or so and seems to be getting through the rookie wall.

For anyone interested in how he’d do if he had an increased role this season, Kyrie and Brown should be out for the next week. Interested to see how he performs.

I've been disappointed in his lack of aggressiveness. I think he's really trying to play within the game and within the system, but this team needs a go-to scorer not named Kyrie and he has the tools to be that. Just haven't seen enough from him in that regard at any point this seasons. Flashes, sure, but no extended period where I felt he was going into another gear to be that guy for us.

I saw a bit of the aggressiveness I'm pining for last night, but it's got to be sustained.

I think these games without Kyrie and Brown are going to be a really big opportunity for him to change that. There are plenty of guys on the team who will be happy to step up to fill the offensive holes with Jaylen and Kyrie out (Smart, Morris, Monroe, Rozier), even though some of them shouldn't (coughMarcuscough). It'll be really telling if Jayson lets them do that or if he forces himself into that position. I hope it's the latter.

[anish23]

Did ya'll watched Mitchell TAKE OVER last night ?

[SmartWentCrazy]

Tatum had a pretty good game yesterday vs Indy— it was especially interesting because Horford and Brown were out and Kyrie sat out the second half:

19-5-3-1-2 in 34 minutes. Shot 5-11, 2-4 from 3 and 7-8 from the line. Been playing much better the last 10 games or so and seems to be getting through the rookie wall.

For anyone interested in how he’d do if he had an increased role this season, Kyrie and Brown should be out for the next week. Interested to see how he performs.

I've been disappointed in his lack of aggressiveness. I think he's really trying to play within the game and within the system, but this team needs a go-to scorer not named Kyrie and he has the tools to be that. Just haven't seen enough from him in that regard at any point this seasons. Flashes, sure, but no extended period where I felt he was going into another gear to be that guy for us.

I saw a bit of the aggressiveness I'm pining for last night, but it's got to be sustained.

I think these games without Kyrie and Brown are going to be a really big opportunity for him to change that. There are plenty of guys on the team who will be happy to step up to fill the offensive holes with Jaylen and Kyrie out (Smart, Morris, Monroe, Rozier), even though some of them shouldn't (coughMarcuscough). It'll be really telling if Jayson lets them do that or if he forces himself into that position. I hope it's the latter.

I think its hard to assert yourself when youre the youngest guy on a top 5 team. I do wish he would more, but its got to be a challenge to do so. I am hopeful that, with the Celtics appearing to concede challenging for the 1 seed, Tatum should see an increased role to finish the season as they try to prepare him for the playoffs.

[SkyHook]

The Jazz are hungry for DM to get ROTY, can’t blame them though he's a talent. But agreed, Sixers would've definitely sat Simmons for the quarter (they’ve done that a few times this year) like they did today against the Nets. Think he only played a minute or so.
Even the Lakers sit out Lonzo alot in fourth quarters.

What game were you watching? The game was in single digits for most of the 4th and it was a single digit lead with under two minutes to play. Rubio makes a three, putting the Jazz up 12 with 1:50 to play. Mitchell comes out of the game 71 seconds later. If you don’t want to watch the game you can still read the play-by-play before you start spouting nonsense. There’s absolutely no way that the Sixers would have sat Simmons only up six points to start the 4th against an in-conference team leading them in the standings (six spots ahead).

Despite being a Jazz fan and how much I would love to have Mitchell win ROY, I’ve still got Simmons in the lead. But it’s damned close. Over the All-Star break with no games to watch I went back and watched Sixers games, specifically to get a better feel for Simmons. He’s a transcendent player. The Simmons/Mitchell dynamic reminds me of the LeBron/Wade dynamic in 03-04, but far more closely contested. Both are going to be extraordinary talents in the league for years to come.

5:32 left in the 4th ,, Jazz up by 13 !!

Reading comprehension, Turbo, or do you not understand the word ‘most’? It was an up and down game throughout the 4th with no safe lead until after the two minute mark. A casual fan might be excused for being foolish enough to think that a 13 point lead with 5+1/2 minutes to play is safe, but for a coach to pull his best players at that point—against a team with whom they’re jostling for a playoff spot—well, he would rightfully be run out of town.

[SkyHook]

It's not "damned close" unless you're trying to create a race.

There are plenty of people with no dog in the fight and no reason to “create a race” who think otherwise.

[Roy The Natural]

Zach Collins raw stats may not be great. But just read this on NBA.com

The Blazers' nine-game winning streak now includes two wins over the Warriors in which Damian Lillard and C.J. McCollum combined to average 65.5 points on an effective field goal percentage of 57 percent. As a unit, the Portland starting lineup has scored 114 points per 100 possessions over the course of the streak, but between the two wins over the champs were seven games in which the Blazers held every opponent under a point per possession, and bench minutes have been critical. In fact, only the Toronto bench has been better since the start of the Blazers' winning streak and Portland has outscored its opponents by 18 points per 100 possessions with Zach Collins on the floor over the nine games. The rookie matched his career high (12 points) on 5-for-6 shooting against the Warriors on Friday.

Him and Ed Davis have been great together.

I will continue to state that he's not perfect, and he's definitely not a RoY candidate. But the guy came in as a long-term project and is consistently flashing high-impact ability in his rookie season. Unlike some of the other players who came out, his body wasn't NBA ready, if he can maintain his agility and get his body up to NBA standards, he can be a damn good player in this league. His skillset is great for the NBA.

Some of his best games have come in the last couple of weeks.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Black Mage]

Did you WATCH?

Ricky Rubio was fantastic and Gobert/Jingles were both really good.

The game was very tight through the 3rd quarter. Donovan Mitchell had 3 points with 3 minutes left in the third. Mitchell took over in the 4th, finished with 27, and the Jazz won by 17.

This game exemplified why Donovan Mitchell is the 6th highest scorer in the NBA in the 4th quarter. He plays clutch and embraces the big moments.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

You are missing my point. This wasn't a game where no other Jazz player had it going and only DM got going to carry them to a win. Rubio scored 2x above his season average, Ingles and Gobert were both 8 or more points above season average.

The Jazz don't win by 17 and likely would have lost without those guys going off. Yes DM scoring late helped secure the win but it hardly carried the team. If anything, the Jazz teammates carried DM until he got hot.

But please, continue your hero worship, nothing wrong with that.

If you didn't watch the game, and you clearly didn't, you should probably keep your trap shut. Mitchell absolutely carried the team in the second half. He was unbelievable.

I saw the game, but clearly you are ignoring my point. You have no freaking clue what "carrying a team" means.

DM took over in the 4th to put the game away, but it wasn't a game where all his teammates struggled and he turned on the jets to pick up their slack and carried them all game long.

Ingles, Gobert and Rubio scored a total of 36 points above their averages. They weren't struggling. DM put them over the top for sure, but HE DID NOT CARRY his team.

[Litany]

You are missing my point. This wasn't a game where no other Jazz player had it going and only DM got going to carry them to a win. Rubio scored 2x above his season average, Ingles and Gobert were both 8 or more points above season average.

The Jazz don't win by 17 and likely would have lost without those guys going off. Yes DM scoring late helped secure the win but it hardly carried the team. If anything, the Jazz teammates carried DM until he got hot.

But please, continue your hero worship, nothing wrong with that.

If you didn't watch the game, and you clearly didn't, you should probably keep your trap shut. Mitchell absolutely carried the team in the second half. He was unbelievable.

I saw the game, but clearly my logic is beyond your IQ. You have no freaking clue what "carrying a team" means.

DM took over in the 4th to put the game away, but it wasn't a game where all his teammates struggled and he turned on the jets to pick up their slack and carried them all game long.

Ingles, Gobert and Rubio scored a total of 36 points above their averages. They weren't struggling. DM put them over the top for sure, but HE DID NOT CARRY his team.

He said Donovan "Willed the team to victory" which he absolutely did.

As explained (and as you glossed over en route to your personal attack on a poster and fanbase) DM scored 18 points in 3 minutes, to get the jazz from down 5 to up 7 in that timeframe. Without that offensive explosion, they lose. Did he say "DM was the only player that contributed anything of value to the team and this victory." No. He freaking didn't. He said he willed them to a win.

When Kobe has taken over games late, or closed games and has willed his team to wins, people didn't throw up their arms saying "BUT BUT BUT his team did stuff too." They didn't because thats an obvious statement...nobody does the whole thing themselves . He's just saying if DM doesn't pull that out, they don't win the game. Sorry if it makes DM look good and you're so insecure about how it influences the ROY race you can't handle it. Geez.

Way too many fans of Ben Simmons unnecessarily feel insecure about the race and jump on any positive mention of DM. Simmons doesn't need that from people he's fantastic on his own. Twitter is especially pathetic and hilarious. Makes me think of that graphic illustrating how any mention by the media of DM has Ben Simmons fans breaking through the wall to tout stats about Simmons and diminishing DM. It's stuff like this that makes me hope Simmons loses. I personally think Simmons will win it, but it's a tight race and it wouldn't' surprise me if they give it to Mitchell.