Fake Trade Thread

[catch20two]

I would be OK with Randle. I like Noel, but Randle seems like a better fit.

Randle would indeed be the better fit because he could also be a 20 ppg scorer alongside Kemba. Randle runs the floor well and sets solid screens which make him great in the PnR game. Also Randle can step out to hit the occasional 3pter.

Noel does a lot of what Cody does but he has more length so he can finish around the rim better and block more shots. Both are practically injury prone but I’d rather take the one with more upside. Cody will never be anything more than a role player. Noel could be a DPOY candidate.

Likewise I’d rather have Randle but Noel prolly will be easier to acquire and cheaper.

[SeanBobcats]

I'm definitely a fan of going for Randle in a sign and trade and maybe it's a possibility if Kupchak ends up being hired. My question is, is he better at the 4 or the 5?

[catch20two]

I'm definitely a fan of going for Randle in a sign and trade and maybe it's a possibility if Kupchak ends up being hired. My question is, is he better at the 4 or the 5?

5. He’s the prototypical center in today’s game.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Noel turned down a 4 year $70 mil contract....

[catch20two]

Noel turned down a 4 year $70 mil contract....

Things changed since then lol. The Mavs didn’t allow him to audition for a bigger contract. He’d be lucky to get 10M this offseason from a team and if he do it’ll likely be a 1yr deal (or a 2 yr deal with player option on the second year).

[Braggins]

How about Evan Fournier? His style fits Nic Batum's and we have to maximize Batum's value if we want to get any kind of return on the investment, whether wins or trade value.

Fournier is averaging a career high 17.8 PPG to go along with 3 assists. He hit 38% of his threes in a crappy lineup. He hit 46% from the field. His contract is 17 million. I'd also like to get a backup PG in the deal so I would target Shelvin Mack.

My proposal is Marvin + Lamb + 2018 top-3 protected 1st for Fournier plus Mack. The lineup would be:

Kemba
Fournier
Batum
Kaminsky
Cody

Mack
Monk
MKG
Graham
Hernangomez

This proposal boils down to whether you think Fournier can step up as the missing #2 scorer between Kemba + Batum and average near 20 PPG. Is a #2 scorer worth pick 10-12 in this year's draft? Is there a different #2 scorer you would target for the 2018 1st? Lamb turns into Mack in this deal and that's lopsided in their favor but they'd be moving a proven #2 scorer so one might expect to pay a premium for that. Lamb turns into Mack, a decent backup PG. You also have to consider Lamb is gonna get expensive and the team is capped out so they could lose him for nothing. Mack is an upgrade.

I like Fournier and really wanted us to try to sign him so we could let Batum walk and avoid his insanely bad contract, but I feel like we are giving up way too much in that trade. Fournier is a good all around offensive player, but he far from being an elite scorer and his defense limits his value. Lamb is at least nearly as good as Fournier by himself. Also, Fournier + Batum would be a horrendous wing pairing on defense and starting Frank at PF would only exacerbate their defensive issues.

I still like the idea of trading for Fournier, though. If we are giving up our lottery pick for him I'd want them to take back Batum and I still probably wouldn't give up Marv (it would be difficult to match salary at that point anyways). We could start Lamb or MKG with Fournier (i'd probably go with MKG tbh). I'm not sure what a workable deal would look like, but Id start with something like Batum + 10 for Fournier + Mack/Augustine + 2nd round pick. I actually really want to keep our pick this year and would rather trade a future 1st, though. I'm not really sure if Fournier is really worth a top 10 pick even if we are also getting rid of Batum. Its hard to say.

[yosemiteben]

If we're trading our first, send it and Dwight to MEM for Gasol with pretty much whatever else it takes to get the deal done.

Not sure Gasol is worth that anymore.

I actually didn't realize he's already 33.

He would have been the perfect C for this team, but yeah never mind given that age.

[MasterIchiro]

How about Evan Fournier? His style fits Nic Batum's and we have to maximize Batum's value if we want to get any kind of return on the investment, whether wins or trade value.

Fournier is averaging a career high 17.8 PPG to go along with 3 assists. He hit 38% of his threes in a crappy lineup. He hit 46% from the field. His contract is 17 million. I'd also like to get a backup PG in the deal so I would target Shelvin Mack.

My proposal is Marvin + Lamb + 2018 top-3 protected 1st for Fournier plus Mack. The lineup would be:

Kemba
Fournier
Batum
Kaminsky
Cody

Mack
Monk
MKG
Graham
Hernangomez

This proposal boils down to whether you think Fournier can step up as the missing #2 scorer between Kemba + Batum and average near 20 PPG. Is a #2 scorer worth pick 10-12 in this year's draft? Is there a different #2 scorer you would target for the 2018 1st? Lamb turns into Mack in this deal and that's lopsided in their favor but they'd be moving a proven #2 scorer so one might expect to pay a premium for that. Lamb turns into Mack, a decent backup PG. You also have to consider Lamb is gonna get expensive and the team is capped out so they could lose him for nothing. Mack is an upgrade.

I like Fournier and really wanted us to try to sign him so we could let Batum walk and avoid his insanely bad contract, but I feel like we are giving up way too much in that trade. Fournier is a good all around offensive player, but he far from being an elite scorer and his defense limits his value. Lamb is at least nearly as good as Fournier by himself. Also, Fournier + Batum would be a horrendous wing pairing on defense and starting Frank at PF would only exacerbate their defensive issues.

I still like the idea of trading for Fournier, though. If we are giving up our lottery pick for him I'd want them to take back Batum and I still probably wouldn't give up Marv (it would be difficult to match salary at that point anyways). We could start Lamb or MKG with Fournier (i'd probably go with MKG tbh). I'm not sure what a workable deal would look like, but Id start with something like Batum + 10 for Fournier + Mack/Augustine + 2nd round pick. I actually really want to keep our pick this year and would rather trade a future 1st, though. I'm not really sure if Fournier is really worth a top 10 pick even if we are also getting rid of Batum. Its hard to say.

We agree on the target and I believe Fournier is about the best we can do for pick 10-12 while dumping a big contract. I would want to turn the pick into a #2. I think any trade with the Magic would fall somewhere between your proposal and mine. I think you're asking them to take on a terrible contract for a number 2 scorer while only getting a late lotto pick for it. Would they be able to develop a late lotto pick into a #2 or better? It's tough. I think Fournier alone is worth a late lotto pick. I don't think Batum would be involved in this trade or it wouldn't happen. But Fournier for pick 10-12 is the center of this deal.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I'm having a difficult time seeing how Fournier is that much of an upgrade over Nic or Lamb. If you replace MKG with him then you've effectively nuked the startling lineup's D - even if you do fix the offense.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_select=Evan+Fournier&y1=2018&player_id1=fournev01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jeremy+Lamb&player_id2_select=Jeremy+Lamb&y2=2018&player_id2=lambje01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Nicolas+Batum&player_id3_select=Nicolas+Batum&y3=2018&player_id3=batumni01&idx=players

[catch20two]

Fournier ain’t helping no fortunes over here. The Magic have been trying to make the playoffs the past 3 seasons to finally give up midway thru this year and Fournier hasn’t helped a bit. Just another empty stats guy with zero defensive potential. Fournier is only valuable on a cheap contract as a 4th option on a team. I wanna say a Danny Green for the Spurs type of role would be ideal for him but I don’t even think Pop would start him because of his defense. He’d likely be a 6th man.

[HornetJail]

Fournier ain’t helping no fortunes over here. The Magic have been trying to make the playoffs the past 3 seasons to finally give up midway thru this year and Fournier hasn’t helped a bit. Just another empty stats guy with zero defensive potential. Fournier is only valuable on a cheap contract as a 4th option on a team. I wanna say a Danny Green for the Spurs type of role would be ideal for him but I don’t even think Pop would start him because of his defense. He’d likely be a 6th man.

yup. I'm tired of trying to make 4th option caliber scorers become our 2nd option. Marvin+Lamb+#10 is a Kevin Love package, not an Evan Fournier package.

[MasterIchiro]

I wouldn't turn down Love for pick 10 but I have a hard time seeing the Cavs settle for that proposal even if they were receiving Dwight's expiring contract with the draft pick. I think they'd need a higher lotto pick position similar to the Butler deal . I agree the pick is worth a #2 scorer but Love is one of the top sidekicks in the game. I don't think Lamb moves the needle for teams. He's not an established range shooter. Plus I suspect LeBron stays in which there's zero chance Love is dealt for a late lotto pick.

[MasterIchiro]

It's easy to slam deals and imagine we can do better but I don't think we have assets to improve the team significantly.

[catch20two]

It's easy to slam deals and imagine we can do better but I don't think we have assets to improve the team significantly.

I’d rather slam a bad deal and kick the wheels with what we have than to do a bad deal that put us in a worse condition than we currently are just because.

There’s no optimism in trading away positive impact players for a empty stats guy with negative impact like Fournier. Lamb has shown the ability to put up the same numbers in the same minutes while being a positive impact player while making more than 2x less.

Definitely wouldn’t trade away a lottery pick for Fournier. That’s just a waste. Although the draft is a crapshoot I’d rather take my chances.

[HornetJail]

just opened a thread on the T&T board, seeing what #10 plus some combo of Marvin/Lamb/Dwight/Kaminsky could fetch us

[JDR720]

I would try to trade Dwight's expiring for some decent depth players and see what Nic can get us before trading #10. MKG too since he still cant shoot.

Dwight for Lin and Carroll (both expiring as well). Carroll is a good fit and we take a swing on Lin.
Dwight for Vuc and Mack (both expiring). Vuc can be the 6th man and Mack is decent. Would Orlando take Dwight back?
Nic for Evan Turner and Leonard + 1st. Turner can be the backup PG, Leonard shoots 45% from 3pt as a 7-1 center.

[Braggins]

I don't think its fair to say Fournier is worthless empty stats. Orlando's roster has never been anywhere near being set up to compete since hes been there. He is an excellent shooter and can handle the ball and pass pretty well and also seems to be a fairly high IQ player. Hes been consistently putting up an efficient 18ppg despite being cast above his abilities as a #1 option. He is more of a 3rd option, but we actually really need someone who can stretch the D and put up an efficient 18ppg, which he should theoretically be able to do at the very least in a smaller role. He and Lamb would give us two 3rd option level scorers, which still isn't ideal, but is far better than our current situation. He also fits nicely between Kemba and MKG on offense and would allow Lamb to continue doing his thing as a super 6th man.

Batum can't even put up an efficient 13ppg and he also isn't good on D (albeit probably better than Fournier when he tries). After thinking about it more I probably would not be open to trading our pick this year for him, but I still like the idea of packaging Batum with a future 1st for him and we could also maybe get a serviceable backup PG out of the deal. Trading a future first gives us the potential to improve to the point where the pick value might align more with Fournier's value (I agree top 10 is too steep). If we hit on our pick this year and got rid of Howard in an addition by subtraction move where we picked up a little depth, we could actually be set up pretty nicely going into next season.

Also, keep in mind that Orlando's front office has a history of bad decision making, so its imaginable that when dealing with them we might actually be able to better value than you might assume would be possible.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I don't see Fournier's stats as empty, but rather that he only seems to help on one side of the court.

I also think that Marvin + Lamb + #10 is not something that I would consider a positive move for the team. Even Batum + #10 for Fournier is pushing it for me value wise. Fournier's contract is $17mil+ per year for 4 years.

[catch20two]

I’m not interested in anyone that ONLY averaged 17 ppg as a #1 option on a losing team that was trying to make the playoffs the past 3 years.

Fournier’s defense is worse than Batum’s even when Batum don’t try. Contract aside Batum is the better player.

[mrknowitall215]

I don't think its fair to say Fournier is worthless empty stats.

I'm with 'catch20two' on this one. Fournier is essentially the definition of a "empty stats" player whereas although he's productive offensively you lose more than you actually gain. I think Fournier's ideal role on a playoff contending team would be that of a sixth man at best. Even Jeremy Lamb has finished higher than Fournier in RPM in two out of the last three seasons