Political Roundtable Part XIX

[Wizardspride]

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[FAH1223]

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I hope Al-Jazeera airs this documentary.

[stilldropin20]

i'll see your Conor Lamb and raise you Stacey Dash!!

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[Wizardspride]

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[closg00]

i'll see your Conor Lamb and raise you Stacey Dash!!

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Have you seen her being interviewed about politics? I actually felt sorry for her.

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[BigA]

I know you don’t care about Trump law-breaking, but the payoff was illegal.
https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/01/22/stormy-daniels-trump-payment-illegal-donation-357250

That's an interesting question. The John Edwards - Rielle Hunter business is mentioned in that article, and is a useful precedent. Edwards was acquitted on one count and the jury was hung on several others (the jury votes on the other counts favored acquittal). The key issue was whether Edwards was knowingly violating campaign finance laws when he used donor money to pay off Hunter and cover up the affair, that they had a kid, etc.

So if there's doubt about whether/how much Trump knew about the payment, that might make it tougher to convict. On the other hand, you could argue that Trump has famously carried on all sorts of affairs that have been publicized, and Stormy wouldn't have been paid off if Trump wasn't running (an argument strengthened by the timing of the payment weeks before the election and years after the affair).

[montestewart]

trump was a squeeky clean businessman admired by millions for 68 years of his life.

funny as all hell.

HOF, right?

[stilldropin20]

I know you don’t care about Trump law-breaking, but the payoff was illegal.
https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/01/22/stormy-daniels-trump-payment-illegal-donation-357250

That's an interesting question. The John Edwards - Rielle Hunter business is mentioned in that article, and is a useful precedent. Edwards was acquitted on one count and the jury was hung on several others (the jury votes on the other counts favored acquittal). The key issue was whether Edwards was knowingly violating campaign finance laws when he used donor money to pay off Hunter and cover up the affair, that they had a kid, etc.

So if there's doubt about whether/how much Trump knew about the payment, that might make it tougher to convict. On the other hand, you could argue that Trump has famously carried on all sorts of affairs that have been publicized, and Stormy wouldn't have been paid off if Trump wasn't running (an argument strengthened by the timing of the payment weeks before the election and years after the affair).

ok. a man who took up the call to action. I salute you kind sir!

but before we establish any kind of wrong doing or illegality to any of this we must first even establish if there even was an affair. which is not a crime btw. and at this point. it certainly aint something that will "stick to the teflon trump. Either way, right now both Trump and Stormy... both of them in fact deny the affair. trump's reason is obvious and stormy is under a lawful non disclosure so in theory she cant talk about it or risk being sued for everything she has both current and stands to make in the future. but that NDS may always remain lawful and she may never be able to tell the truth or risk being successfully sued for everything. so if mueller or anyone calls her, she might be better off to continue to deny it.

keep in mind that she (likely?) may be doing the entire thing for publicity and money. I mean she was having sex for as little as $300 per scene not that long before this non disclosure. By "scene" i do mean...er well...you can google it. Also keep in mind that so far nothing has been leaked besides a silly photo that was, like, at a golf outing or something? and she looks more like a blood thirsty fan in that photo vs. someone actually having an affair. still. either way. BOTH deny the affair at this point.

so after we leap into assumption that in fact they are both lying now and there was indeed an affair we jump the first legal hurdle. because if she was simply blackmailing his position in life (presidential election a few weeks away) at that time, then a certain "common sense for the common good" legal analysis would prevail in congress who has oversight. Because elected law makers (who have oversight on this) are not going to allow random people to blackmail politicians during elections, weeks before the election where just the mere allegations will sink a candidate. sorry. but that wont fly in congress. because 99.9999999999999999% of candidates can not survive mere (false) allegations like that weeks before an election where there is no time to adequately defend yourself before election day. and this is where you take a 2nd leap of faith. that politicians will create a precedent that allows themselves to be open to these types of blackmailing type "political" attacks weeks before an election. This would be too dangerous to themselves. So only the craziest and oldest members of congress that are never running for a major office would go for this. eg maxine waters might get on that horse. and maybe a few others. most wont.

which brings us to your 3rd major leap of faith. the .00000000000000000000001% of candidates that could survive this kind of attack. ladies and gentlemen I present to you Mr "grab them by the puzzy" himself. He, in fact, did survive this kind of attack weeks before the election. AND THEY HAD HIM ON TAPE!!!!!!! So for this $130,000 to be "of value" to candidate Donald Trump you must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the non disclosure agreement itself was of value to him. that indeed effectively shutting up stormy daniels 2 weeks before the election allowed him to be victorious. because without establishing that causation you can not establish any value. FACT. and only God himself knows the answer to that. because every single poll and Nate Silver himself had no idea who was going to win nor why at that time. Maybe you could get 76,000 people in 3 different states that voted for trump to say that knowing this thing about Stormy would have reversed their votes???? yeah didn't think so. So you cant prove this non-disclosure had any value to trump. the cost of it does not matter. where the money comes from does not matter. the value it holds is undefinable. unknowable.

But before you even run off on that wild goose chase to prove value it does not even matter until you first prove that Donald trump himself new for certainty that he would win without this getting out. Indeed you must know if Donald trump believed that this non disclosure had political value (not PErsonal value). he is allowed to have personal value like hiding it from his wife, child. etc. but political value he is not allowed to attain without disclosure. And for that? Donald trump must tell on himself. he has to be stupid enough to admit it. or it must be crytal clear in an email somewhere. or his lawyer must tell on him. here's a little secret that I would like to let you in on. Donald trump nor his lawyer are going to tell on themselves. good luck with any of these but especially this one. (which is really your 5th leap of faith).


And then your 6th leap of legal faith is that you must prove that not only that he knew he would win the election, but that if the info got out he knew he would lose. These sound the same but they are not. Knowig he would win is one thing. KNowing that this information getting out would cause him to lose is actually an entire different thing. and AGAIN...just like with "winning" nothing else matters but the internal thought process of donald trump. so he clearly will never admit to knowing for certainty that he would win and he will also not admit that this would cause him to lose. so unless there are emails or voice calls that Obama's DOJ illegally recorded him on while surveilling that mastermind spy Carter Page...with that??? you just dont have the evidence.

and by dont have the evidence...i do mean that you dont have the evidence for any single one of these leaps of faith. not the 6th, 5th, 4th. heck not even the damn 1st. As i said, Both trump and Stormy currently deny the affair even happened. So at this current state of denial, there was no need for him to have received anything "of value" unless in some weird dictator state of a banana republic where you call not allowing yourself to be blackmailed weeks before an election..."of value" because "the value" he received was based on ill begotten damage to his reputation solely for the purposes of self gain via black mail. which again given that this is trump, you likely could never prove that this would have harmed him in the election. and again if you cant prove harm, then you cant prove gain. right now we cant even prove the affair even happened.

With John Edwards, he had an affair, admitted it (later) also had a baby. (lied about both initially.) and worse, the big daddy...he actually accepted money from donors to hide the woman and the baby.

I dont think trumps personal lawyer or Trump Inc.'s lawyer even qualifies as a "donor."

and in the future, if we prove the money came from trump himself?..which it likely did or will. So what!!! you still cant prove that this would harm him enough politically to cause him to lose as he was proven to be teflon to these types of attacks. (America knows who he is and who they voted for.) and if you cant prove harm then you cant prove "gain."

and right now you cant even prove that Trump even knew anything about this non disclosure, let alone the payment, the harm, the value, nothing. I mean you got effing nothing. you dont even have a crime!!!. let alone evidence that one took place.

so once again. lets talk about what you do have. political theatre. palace intrigue. one more little tiny paper cut that at this point is only making CNN and MSNBC look pettier and pettier. and turing off the public even more to their coverage. I actually think this kind of "news" is actually starting to work in trumps favor. You guys are starting to turn this man into a martyr.

[stilldropin20]

i'll see your Conor Lamb and raise you Stacey Dash!!

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Have you seen her being interviewed about politics? I actually felt sorry for her.

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just watched. she did all right. like trump, she is not siding with white supremacists nor defending them. al all. just defending their right to assemble (unfortunately they have rights too just like Farahkhan and his followers have their rights to assemble and spew their hate based on race)...and more people were at that rally besides white supremacists. innocent bystanders were there. good folks that were not white supremacists and not taking a side but just to see it. like a train wreck. americans like to watch things that they should not like to watch. just to observe. it called being human. Just cuz they were curious to watch, they did not deserve to be caught in the middle of the crossfire of violence...and that was trump's initial point then and Dash's point now. but no one wants to actually listen. everyone is just looking for a "gotya!!"

Im suprised that she willingly stepped on her sword for trump, though. he is going to like her. which gives her a shot. she should have picked an easier district though. that one looks tough to win with her political views. if she just picks an easier (yet still democratic) district she would cake walk in a victory.

either way, im going to enjoy watching this one the same way cammac is enjoying Conor Lamb, the sham being tied in Pennsylvania's 18th district. looks like republicans are starting to learn how to play this game too. Politics! the best reality show on earth!! this shxtz betta than housewives!!!

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[cammac]

Immigration is a tough subject and one that divides people and one group especially many baby boomers my age. Many are against immigration but that is counterproductive to there own well being. A shrinking workforce also put many services needed by seniors in jeopardy since it is the able bodied that finance those services. Many feel like DACA and bringing immigration from predominantly non white countries are not worthy. They feel enamored by the COSTCO tax cuts getting a few dollars and straddling the heirs with a huge bill. They some how fail to realize that the majority of the windfall goes to the Koch Brothers of the world.

A 2017 Bipartisan Policy Center report said: “Immigration provides working-age population growth that helps support growing ranks of retirees. Immigrants also add to economic growth through innovation and entrepreneurship, assisting with productivity increases that help offset labor-force declines.”

According to CBO, the bill would have expanded GDP by 3.3 percent within 10 years and reduced the budget deficit by about $135 billion. In contrast, the Joint Committee on Taxation projected that last year’s tax cuts would increase GDP by an average of 0.7 percent over the first 10 years and increase the deficit by $1.1 trillion

http://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/377528-americas-immigrants-could-be-a-source-of-strength-for-the-economy

[dckingsfan]

This is almost as disturbing as the fact that we even have a DOE - a complete and abject failure since the Carter administration. It is a money sink with no end game.

If you add on the loans for higher ed - geez...

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[cammac]

This is almost as disturbing as the fact that we even have a DOE - a complete and abject failure since the Carter administration. It is a money sink with no end game.

If you add on the loans for higher ed - geez...

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I look at the USA system and shake my head how inefficient and non-progressive it is! Obviously the USA faces similar problems in education that countries like Australia & Canada face in educating immigrants whose 1st language isn't English or in Canada's case English/French. But the USA has a huge disparity in the type of education a student gets in any State dependent on zip code.

Plus getting into quality universities in the USA are exceedingly high. to put things in comparison I have given you links to 2 quality Universities in Canada. University of Toronto and University of Waterloo both world ranked and my Alma Mater William & Mary & Georgetown. Please note Canadian fees are 80cents to USD.
http://college-tuition.startclass.com/l/771/Georgetown-University
https://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1593
http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/admissions/tuition-fees
https://uwaterloo.ca/future-students/financing/tuition
Just tuition fees makes education at a higher level almost impossible for many Americans and those that do go are burdened with debt that cripples them or there parents.
The USA needs to stop navel gazing and look outward to reconstruct almost every service that benefits society.

[cammac]

The Repugnant Republic of Kansas or how one State can elect so many a.. wipes!
We all remember the Pence/Kobach voter fraud commission and what startling results that were achieved by that commission.
Well Kobach and his tactics to suppress the vote is on trial in Kansas.

Von Spakovsky confirmed that he disagrees with most legal scholars that a person automatically becomes a U.S. citizen if he or she is born on U.S. soil under the 14th Amendment, saying that his interpretation is that at least one parent must also be a citizen.

Von Spakovsky testified that even a small number of non-citizens on voter rolls “could make the difference in a race that's decided by a small number of votes,” but during cross-examination acknowledged that he could not name a specific federal election that was decided by non-citizen votes.

Von Spakovsky wrote the 2012 book “Who's Counting?: How Fraudsters and Bureaucrats Put Your Vote at Risk.”

Ho asked him if his research for that book was peer-reviewed or whether he had ever written a peer-reviewed article on voter fraud.

"I'm not an academic, so I don't use the peer review process,” von Spakovsky replied.

By that definition Ted Cruz is not a citizen since he was born in Canada (a Nation disgrace) and only his mother was American & his father Cuban.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/11/1748257/-Kobach-confronts-reality-Reality-wins

[cammac]

Trump doesn't like his PA18 Wing Man!

here's a reason Trump said hardly anything about Republican candidate Rick Saccone during a rally in Pennsylvania on Saturday night that was supposed to promote his candidacy.

The reason: Trump thinks Saccone is a terrible, "weak" candidate, according to four sources who've spoken to the president about him.
Trump held that opinion of Saccone before leaving for the rally, and I've not been able to establish whether his time on the ground with the candidate changed his mind.
Show less
Trump isn't the only top Republican who’s found Saccone underwhelming. The widely-held view from Republican officials: Democrat Conor Lamb is a far superior candidate to Saccone and running a far better campaign. Lamb is running effectively as Republican Lite. He's pro-gun and says he personally opposes to abortion (though he supports abortion rights).
The thing that most irks senior Republicans involved in the race: Saccone has been a lousy fundraiser. Lamb has outraised Saccone by a staggering margin — nearly 500 percent.
Politico's Alex Isenstadt was first to report that Trump was not impressed with Saccone.

I spoke on Saturday to Corry Bliss, who runs the outside groups linked to Paul Ryan and may have as much as $140 million to spend on the midterm elections.

"The lesson of this race is that campaigns and candidates matter,” Bliss told me. “In this environment, when one campaign out-raises and runs circles around the other, that creates a number of challenges that are tough to overcome."

Yet there’s evidence the Republican offensive might be having some effect. A data analysis completed by the RNC during the middle of last week showed Lamb leading just 48 percent to 47 percent, according to two people briefed on the numbers. The Democrat’s advantage had shrunk from four percentage points in the committee’s previous analysis of the race days earlier.

Saccone, a 60-year-old state legislator and retired Air Force officer, was optimistic that momentum was “swinging our way.”

“It’s a special election, so it’s all about turnout,” Saccone said at the Allegheny County Republican Party headquarters on Friday, when he was asked why the race was so close. “Our people get out, we win, and there’s no problem.”

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/12/1748364/-PA-18-Axios-Trump-Privately-Slams-Rick-Saccone-R-As-A-Bad-Weak-Candidate

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/377695-the-memo-moment-of-truth-for-trump-in-pennsylvania

[Wizardspride]

And this is why I've never understood SD20's belief that Trump is "dying to make a deal. Just work with him" etc etc

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[dckingsfan]

This is almost as disturbing as the fact that we even have a DOE - a complete and abject failure since the Carter administration. It is a money sink with no end game.

If you add on the loans for higher ed - geez...

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I look at the USA system and shake my head how inefficient and non-progressive it is! Obviously the USA faces similar problems in education that countries like Australia & Canada face in educating immigrants whose 1st language isn't English or in Canada's case English/French. But the USA has a huge disparity in the type of education a student gets in any State dependent on zip code.

Plus getting into quality universities in the USA are exceedingly high. to put things in comparison I have given you links to 2 quality Universities in Canada. University of Toronto and University of Waterloo both world ranked and my Alma Mater William & Mary & Georgetown. Please note Canadian fees are 80cents to USD.
http://college-tuition.startclass.com/l/771/Georgetown-University
https://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1593
http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/admissions/tuition-fees
https://uwaterloo.ca/future-students/financing/tuition
Just tuition fees makes education at a higher level almost impossible for many Americans and those that do go are burdened with debt that cripples them or there parents.
The USA needs to stop navel gazing and look outward to reconstruct almost every service that benefits society.

Thank the DOE for that - we can't kill bad programs to save our lives... regardless of how bad they are - there is just the "we can fix this", our programs are "just resting"...

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[FAH1223]

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[Wizardspride]

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