Luka Doncic Part III

[SportsGuy8]

Doncic looks less athletic than he actually is because he prefers finishing in a bit unorthodox way, by using his tricks and strength, often deliberately decelerating/slowing down to create space to shoot. And why wouldn't he? His TS% is still great even with his struggles as of late and he's also shooting 60% for 2P, which is amazing for a guard! Why would he change his style under the basket and start finishing aggressively with athleticism when it's working so well? Him being very efficient while shooting a terrible 31% for 3 is amazing, especially considering that almost half of his shots are 3s.

To put Doncic's 2P FG% of 60 into context: only 1 current NBA player has career 2P FG% of over 60 (DeAndre Jordan)! No guard comes even close, most star guards have it under 50!
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg2_pct_active.html

Sure you can argue it's "just Europe", but this is still amazing. He's not playing vs. some kids that he's easily able to dominate under the basket. Even if his % is going to drop by 8 to 52 in the NBA, he's still going to be the best among guards! He's just special at picking his spots around the basket and creating opportunities with his deceleration moves.

[Alatan]

and you know more than people, who watched 100+ his games, some live in arena? people who knows Fiba rules, competition..

Its enough for me to base my opinion. Do you think that fanboys that watch 100+ of his games have an unbiased opinion? Much more likely that they will overvalue his abilities and ignore his flaws. I also live in the "area" and know FIBA rules since im from the Balkans and i can tell you that Doncic is nothing special even as our media wants to portray him as this once in a lifetime prospect. He is not the best European prospect ever, not by a long shot. Just a few drafts ago Europe had a 7'2'' guy with better athleticism and shooting ability than Doncic. Hyping up Doncic as an NBA superstar is just asking for disappointment. Doncic playing in Euroleague at an early age doesnt mean he is this incredible prospect but that he understands the game and developed quickly. And the last thing is that Doncic is NOT dominating Europe. He is a very good player in Europe but that so were Bjelica, Marjanovic, Bogdanovic, Teodosic, Rodriguez etc and they are not killing it in the NBA.

Nobody from mention players didn’t even play in Euroleague with 18 years, that means they for sure wasn’t great players with 18 years. Nobody won Eurobasket and was selected in first team with 18 years. Porzingis didn’t play in Euroleague and was shooting 30% for 3 and 60% Fts in Sevilla. I would say his 3s was mostly open shots and not of the dribble like Doncic is mostly shooting.

Never said Porzingis played in the Euroleague but that he was a better European prospect than Doncic. The comparison with the mentioned players is because their skill level was very good for Europe but not enough for NBA so if Doncic doesnt make great improvements, and i dont see him doing it, he wont be much better than said players. Everyone assumes that Doncic will have the same improvement trajectory as a raw college athlete but that is certainly not the case. He will improve but his lack of athletic ability, wingspan and elite shooting touch hinders his ceiling to a borderline allstar at best.

[SportsGuy8]

5-6 full games.

and you know more than people, who watched 100+ his games, some live in arena? people who knows Fiba rules, competition..

Its enough for me to base my opinion. Do you think that fanboys that watch 100+ of his games have an unbiased opinion? Much more likely that they will overvalue his abilities and ignore his flaws. I also live in the "area" and know FIBA rules since im from the Balkans and i can tell you that Doncic is nothing special even as our media wants to portray him as this once in a lifetime prospect. He is not the best European prospect ever, not by a long shot. Just a few drafts ago Europe had a 7'2'' guy with better athleticism and shooting ability than Doncic. Hyping up Doncic as an NBA superstar is just asking for disappointment. Doncic playing in Euroleague at an early age doesnt mean he is this incredible prospect but that he understands the game and developed quickly. And the last thing is that Doncic is NOT dominating Europe. He is a very good player in Europe but that so were Bjelica, Marjanovic, Bogdanovic, Teodosic, Rodriguez etc and they are not killing it in the NBA.

None of these players were ever as good as Doncic is this year (probably not even Teodosic, after you consider all the little things), and he was only 18 for most of the season, while all of these guys became Euro "stars" in their mid 20s! You're taking the "he matured/developed quickly" argument a bit too far. He's still a teenager. And already better than these guys were in their mid 20s.

[burek3]

Ah, got it, Alatan is yet another a-la peja_* shupaq.... There were signs before in his posts, but couldn't really pinpoint it...

[Bob8]

Its enough for me to base my opinion. Do you think that fanboys that watch 100+ of his games have an unbiased opinion? Much more likely that they will overvalue his abilities and ignore his flaws. I also live in the "area" and know FIBA rules since im from the Balkans and i can tell you that Doncic is nothing special even as our media wants to portray him as this once in a lifetime prospect. He is not the best European prospect ever, not by a long shot. Just a few drafts ago Europe had a 7'2'' guy with better athleticism and shooting ability than Doncic. Hyping up Doncic as an NBA superstar is just asking for disappointment. Doncic playing in Euroleague at an early age doesnt mean he is this incredible prospect but that he understands the game and developed quickly. And the last thing is that Doncic is NOT dominating Europe. He is a very good player in Europe but that so were Bjelica, Marjanovic, Bogdanovic, Teodosic, Rodriguez etc and they are not killing it in the NBA.

Nobody from mention players didn’t even play in Euroleague with 18 years, that means they for sure wasn’t great players with 18 years. Nobody won Eurobasket and was selected in first team with 18 years. Porzingis didn’t play in Euroleague and was shooting 30% for 3 and 60% Fts in Sevilla. I would say his 3s was mostly open shots and not of the dribble like Doncic is mostly shooting.

Never said Porzingis played in the Euroleague but that he was a better European prospect than Doncic. The comparison with the mentioned players is because their skill level was very good for Europe but not enough for NBA so if Doncic doesnt make great improvements, and i dont see him doing it, he wont be much better than said players. Everyone assumes that Doncic will have the same improvement trajectory as a raw college athlete but that is certainly not the case. He will improve but his lack of athletic ability, wingspan and elite shooting touch hinders his ceiling to a borderline allstar at best.

you said Porzingis was better shooter, when he was 18 years old. 30% for 3 and 60% Fts doesn’t exactly prove that. And don’t get me wrong, but I not buying that you can see the future. Doncic doesn’t need much improvement to be very good Nba player and he has a lot of room for improvement. He will improve in everything. But he’s the only one, who can play in Nba at this moment, some other prospects need big imaginations to even see how they can play in Nba.

[Alatan]

Nobody from mention players didn’t even play in Euroleague with 18 years, that means they for sure wasn’t great players with 18 years. Nobody won Eurobasket and was selected in first team with 18 years. Porzingis didn’t play in Euroleague and was shooting 30% for 3 and 60% Fts in Sevilla. I would say his 3s was mostly open shots and not of the dribble like Doncic is mostly shooting.

Never said Porzingis played in the Euroleague but that he was a better European prospect than Doncic. The comparison with the mentioned players is because their skill level was very good for Europe but not enough for NBA so if Doncic doesnt make great improvements, and i dont see him doing it, he wont be much better than said players. Everyone assumes that Doncic will have the same improvement trajectory as a raw college athlete but that is certainly not the case. He will improve but his lack of athletic ability, wingspan and elite shooting touch hinders his ceiling to a borderline allstar at best.

you said Porzingis was better shooter, when he was 18 years old. 30% for 3 and 60% Fts doesn’t exactly prove that. And don’t get me wrong, but I not buying that you can see the future. Doncic doesn’t need much improvement to be very good Nba player and he has a lot of room for improvement. He will improve in everything. But he’s the only one, who can play in Nba at this moment, some other prospects need big imaginations to even see how they can play in Nba.

I mean, we can say that about any prospect. They are all young and could in theory improve in everything but in reality players improve in skills they show glimpses they posses and dont magically become good in skills they show they are terrible at. There are outliers but those are called that for a reason.

[Alatan]

Ah, got it, Alatan is yet another a-la peja_* shupaq.... There were signs before in his posts, but couldn't really pinpoint it...

Another poster that doesnt find Doncic worth all this hype and is critical of him? I get that people want an European guy to succeed in the NBA but all this lifting him into HoF status annoys me.

[Bob8]

Never said Porzingis played in the Euroleague but that he was a better European prospect than Doncic. The comparison with the mentioned players is because their skill level was very good for Europe but not enough for NBA so if Doncic doesnt make great improvements, and i dont see him doing it, he wont be much better than said players. Everyone assumes that Doncic will have the same improvement trajectory as a raw college athlete but that is certainly not the case. He will improve but his lack of athletic ability, wingspan and elite shooting touch hinders his ceiling to a borderline allstar at best.

you said Porzingis was better shooter, when he was 18 years old. 30% for 3 and 60% Fts doesn’t exactly prove that. And don’t get me wrong, but I not buying that you can see the future. Doncic doesn’t need much improvement to be very good Nba player and he has a lot of room for improvement. He will improve in everything. But he’s the only one, who can play in Nba at this moment, some other prospects need big imaginations to even see how they can play in Nba.

I mean, we can say that about any prospect. They are all young and could in theory improve in everything but in reality players improve in skills they show glimpses they posses and dont magically become good in skills they show they are terrible at. There are outliers but those are called that for a reason.

and in which skills is Doncic terrible in?

I find very funny that people are taking against Doncic the fact how good he’s at early age. Early bloomer and similar nonsense. You can say that someone was early bloomer when he reach prime, if he doesn’t improve, not when he’s 18 years old. Why Doncic can’t be 40% 3 point shooter? Who say he can’t avg. 20 ppg in multiple seasons?

Why you think your prediction of Doncic is better than others? You know more than Gms, who might take him in top3? All experts, who see him as top2 prospect are wrong? Who are you to say that?

[SportsGuy8]

Ah, got it, Alatan is yet another a-la peja_* shupaq.... There were signs before in his posts, but couldn't really pinpoint it...

Another poster that doesnt find Doncic worth all this hype and is critical of him? I get that people want an European guy to succeed in the NBA but all this lifting him into HoF status annoys me.

Constructive criticism is one thing. But it's completely different when he gets compared to other Euros who even as adult men in their PRIMES aren't as good as he is as a teenager!

It's like doubting/criticising Ayton because most American 1st round picks disappoint.

It's not Doncic's fault that no other Euro perimeter prospect was ever close to him. Actually, it IS his fault ... For being so much better than them.

[Alatan]

you said Porzingis was better shooter, when he was 18 years old. 30% for 3 and 60% Fts doesn’t exactly prove that. And don’t get me wrong, but I not buying that you can see the future. Doncic doesn’t need much improvement to be very good Nba player and he has a lot of room for improvement. He will improve in everything. But he’s the only one, who can play in Nba at this moment, some other prospects need big imaginations to even see how they can play in Nba.

I mean, we can say that about any prospect. They are all young and could in theory improve in everything but in reality players improve in skills they show glimpses they posses and dont magically become good in skills they show they are terrible at. There are outliers but those are called that for a reason.

and in which skills is Doncic terrible in?

I find very funny that people are taking against Doncic the fact how good he’s at early age. Early bloomer and similar nonsense. You can say that someone was early bloomer when he reach prime, if he doesn’t improve, not when he’s 18 years old. Why Doncic can’t be 40% 3 point shooter? Who say he can’t avg. 20 ppg in multiple seasons?

Why you think your prediction of Doncic is better than others? You know more than Gms, who might take him in top3. All experts, who see him as top2 prospect are wrong? Who are you to say that?

So if im not a GM i cant express an opinion that differs from the majority? What makes you think Doncic will be a dynamic shooter capable of creating his own shot and shooting at a high efficiency when he cant do it now against much worse competition? Why do you think his athleticism will improve considerably when few others prospects does? If Doncic was some fat out of shape dude that just started playing basketball, i would agree that he can improve considerably. If Doncic was some twig that can fill out i would agree that he could improve considerably. But Doncic almost has a mans body and had some of the best training available to him. What part of his game says elite shooter ? 31% from three ? 80% from the line? Forced step back threes that miss horribly? What part of his slow, hunched ball handling and predictable shot fakes says elite shot creator? What part of his under the rim finishes say elite finisher?

[Alatan]

Ah, got it, Alatan is yet another a-la peja_* shupaq.... There were signs before in his posts, but couldn't really pinpoint it...

Another poster that doesnt find Doncic worth all this hype and is critical of him? I get that people want an European guy to succeed in the NBA but all this lifting him into HoF status annoys me.

Constructive criticism is one thing. But it's completely different when he gets compared to other Euros who even as adult men in their PRIMES aren't as good as he is as a teenager!

It's like doubting/criticising Ayton because most American 1st round picks disappoint.

It's not Doncic's fault that no other Euro perimeter prospect was ever close to him. Actually, it IS his fault ... For being so much better than them.

Petrovic was MUCH, MUCH better than Doncic. Dragic is now better than Doncic will ever be. Bogdanovic even as he is older is a similar type of player and could end up being better than Doncic. Doncic is way too overhyped.

[Mirotic12]

Evan Turner is his floor.

Oh come on man....Doncic is way better than Evan Turner. Hollis Thompson can't even stay in the end of Olympiacos' rotation in EuroLeague. Joe Ingles was a role player his whole time in EuroLeague....

I am sorry, but there is zero chance, absolutely zero, that Evan Turner would sniff the production Doncic has, if he was on Real Madrid.

You are way underrating Doncic here, big time.

[Bob8]

I mean, we can say that about any prospect. They are all young and could in theory improve in everything but in reality players improve in skills they show glimpses they posses and dont magically become good in skills they show they are terrible at. There are outliers but those are called that for a reason.

and in which skills is Doncic terrible in?

I find very funny that people are taking against Doncic the fact how good he’s at early age. Early bloomer and similar nonsense. You can say that someone was early bloomer when he reach prime, if he doesn’t improve, not when he’s 18 years old. Why Doncic can’t be 40% 3 point shooter? Who say he can’t avg. 20 ppg in multiple seasons?

Why you think your prediction of Doncic is better than others? You know more than Gms, who might take him in top3. All experts, who see him as top2 prospect are wrong? Who are you to say that?

So if im not a GM i cant express an opinion that differs from the majority? What makes you think Doncic will be a dynamic shooter capable of creating his own shot and shooting at a high efficiency when he cant do it now against much worse competition? Why do you think his athleticism will improve considerably when few others prospects does? If Doncic was some fat out of shape dude that just started playing basketball, i would agree that he can improve considerably. If Doncic was some twig that can fill out i would agree that he could improve considerably. But Doncic almost has a mans body and had some of the best training available to him. What part of his game says elite shooter ? 31% from three ? 80% from the line? Forced step back threes that miss horribly? What part of his slow, hunched ball handling and predictable shot fakes says elite shot creator? What part of his under the rim finishes say elite finisher?

You can think whatever you want, no problem. I hope you understand that your attitude doesn’t help your point and to be honest you didn’t bring anything new in the debate.

Mans body? And whos body has Ayton than? Supermans? He cannot improve 3 points shooting? Do you remember GOAT MJ? Who was shooting 15% for 3s in first seasons. And he had 42% near the end of his career. Or James, first season 29%, best 40%. And what you meant with the best training? He for sure doesn’t has the best fitness training and that’s why he was going to P3 in the summer. He has shooting coach in USA too. He can’t improve handling, why’s that? He improved handle in every season. And if he’s that bad, how he ended winning gold in Eurobasket and being selected in first team? Slovenia was around 10 place with bookies before the tournament. 30:1. But they somehow beat all the favorites, Doncic being second most important player behind Dragic. I won’t even comment on your bashing, it’s just sad and tells much about you and nothing about Doncic.

[BoardCrusher]

Its enough for me to base my opinion. Do you think that fanboys that watch 100+ of his games have an unbiased opinion? Much more likely that they will overvalue his abilities and ignore his flaws. I also live in the "area" and know FIBA rules since im from the Balkans and i can tell you that Doncic is nothing special even as our media wants to portray him as this once in a lifetime prospect. He is not the best European prospect ever, not by a long shot. Just a few drafts ago Europe had a 7'2'' guy with better athleticism and shooting ability than Doncic. Hyping up Doncic as an NBA superstar is just asking for disappointment. Doncic playing in Euroleague at an early age doesnt mean he is this incredible prospect but that he understands the game and developed quickly. And the last thing is that Doncic is NOT dominating Europe. He is a very good player in Europe but that so were Bjelica, Marjanovic, Bogdanovic, Teodosic, Rodriguez etc and they are not killing it in the NBA.

Nobody from mention players didn’t even play in Euroleague with 18 years, that means they for sure wasn’t great players with 18 years. Nobody won Eurobasket and was selected in first team with 18 years. Porzingis didn’t play in Euroleague and was shooting 30% for 3 and 60% Fts in Sevilla. I would say his 3s was mostly open shots and not of the dribble like Doncic is mostly shooting.

Never said Porzingis played in the Euroleague but that he was a better European prospect than Doncic. The comparison with the mentioned players is because their skill level was very good for Europe but not enough for NBA so if Doncic doesnt make great improvements, and i dont see him doing it, he wont be much better than said players. Everyone assumes that Doncic will have the same improvement trajectory as a raw college athlete but that is certainly not the case. He will improve but his lack of athletic ability, wingspan and elite shooting touch hinders his ceiling to a borderline allstar at best.

so lets hear it, what is his wingspan? (since you seem to know)

[SportsGuy8]

Another poster that doesnt find Doncic worth all this hype and is critical of him? I get that people want an European guy to succeed in the NBA but all this lifting him into HoF status annoys me.

Constructive criticism is one thing. But it's completely different when he gets compared to other Euros who even as adult men in their PRIMES aren't as good as he is as a teenager!

It's like doubting/criticising Ayton because most American 1st round picks disappoint.

It's not Doncic's fault that no other Euro perimeter prospect was ever close to him. Actually, it IS his fault ... For being so much better than them.

Petrovic was MUCH, MUCH better than Doncic. Dragic is now better than Doncic will ever be. Bogdanovic even as he is older is a similar type of player and could end up being better than Doncic. Doncic is way too overhyped.

Even right now, Doncic is closer to Dragic than you think, mostly because he basically does everything. Dragic is obviously a better scorer (the most important thing in basketball, obviously, that's why I still give him an edge), but that's pretty much it.

How can Dragic for sure be better than Doncic will ever be? Even if Doncic for some reason ends up struggling in the NBA and only averages like 15 ppg, he could still be a better player with his well-rounded do-in-all game.

Bogdanovic is on a similar level, but he's 25.

Drazen was better, obviously.

[SportsGuy8]

What part of his slow, hunched ball handling and predictable shot fakes says elite shot creator? What part of his under the rim finishes say elite finisher?

The part where he has an incredible 60% 2P FG%.

That's the thing with Doncic. He looks slow, he looks unathletic, he looks immobile ... Yet he continues to put up the numbers on great efficiency. And if he ever gets his 3pt shooting in upper 30s, his efficiency is going to be insane.

Besides, Dragic was absolutely correct when he said that Doncic only LOOKS slow, while in reality he's much faster. His frame, size and long strides are deceiving.

The numbers don't lie. In Doncic's case, our eyesight lies, because he's unorthodox.

[Nikson]

Another poster that doesnt find Doncic worth all this hype and is critical of him? I get that people want an European guy to succeed in the NBA but all this lifting him into HoF status annoys me.

Constructive criticism is one thing. But it's completely different when he gets compared to other Euros who even as adult men in their PRIMES aren't as good as he is as a teenager!

It's like doubting/criticising Ayton because most American 1st round picks disappoint.

It's not Doncic's fault that no other Euro perimeter prospect was ever close to him. Actually, it IS his fault ... For being so much better than them.

Petrovic was MUCH, MUCH better than Doncic. Dragic is now better than Doncic will ever be. Bogdanovic even as he is older is a similar type of player and could end up being better than Doncic. Doncic is way too overhyped.

We all know, as you said yourself, are annoyed by Luka Dončić fans predicting him a gorgeous career.
Look I don’t believe you watched just 5-6 his full games. As you are from balkan it is impossible. You will not find one man here to believe it. They are just to nice to tell you.
You know some thing about basketball but you are not exactly Pacers GM.

[Mirotic12]

I agree that Doncic has a good feel for the game but he is super athletically limited. It takes both skill and athletic ability to become a star.

Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Jason Kidd
John Stockton
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Tim Duncan
Ray Allen
Mark Price
Chris Paul
Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Carmelo Anthony
Paul Pierce
Yao Ming
Stephen Curry

No, it does not. Not one of those above guys was anything more than at best OK athletically. Most of them were no better than Doncic as athletes, or actually worse.

It's simply untrue that you have to be very athletic to be a star. Totally untrue.

[BoardCrusher]

Another poster that doesnt find Doncic worth all this hype and is critical of him? I get that people want an European guy to succeed in the NBA but all this lifting him into HoF status annoys me.

Constructive criticism is one thing. But it's completely different when he gets compared to other Euros who even as adult men in their PRIMES aren't as good as he is as a teenager!

It's like doubting/criticising Ayton because most American 1st round picks disappoint.

It's not Doncic's fault that no other Euro perimeter prospect was ever close to him. Actually, it IS his fault ... For being so much better than them.

Petrovic was MUCH, MUCH better than Doncic. Dragic is now better than Doncic will ever be. Bogdanovic even as he is older is a similar type of player and could end up being better than Doncic. Doncic is way too overhyped.

Petrovic at 18 WASNT better then Doncic at 18, Aco Petrovic pointed that out himself among others.

Dragic at 18 wasnt NOWHERE near as good as Doncic, but if youre actually trying to say he is NOW(after 9 seasons in NBA) better then him youre just talking out of your .... cause you have no actual idea how good Doncic can be, you can only speculate.

"Bogdanovic can still become better, but Doncic cant." ???? lol??

the double standards you display are pure BS

[Bob8]

Constructive criticism is one thing. But it's completely different when he gets compared to other Euros who even as adult men in their PRIMES aren't as good as he is as a teenager!

It's like doubting/criticising Ayton because most American 1st round picks disappoint.

It's not Doncic's fault that no other Euro perimeter prospect was ever close to him. Actually, it IS his fault ... For being so much better than them.

Petrovic was MUCH, MUCH better than Doncic. Dragic is now better than Doncic will ever be. Bogdanovic even as he is older is a similar type of player and could end up being better than Doncic. Doncic is way too overhyped.

We all know, as you said yourself, are annoyed by Luka Dončić fans predicting him a gorgeous career.
Look I don’t believe you watched just 5-6 his full games. As you are from balkan it is impossible. You will not find one man here to believe it. They are just to nice to tell you.
You know some thing about basketball but you are not exactly Pacers GM.

Are people here really predicting that Doncic will have gorgeous career? I don’t think so. The vast majority are saying he’s incredible for his age and that he could have good career, if everything goes well. On the other hand we have some individuals, who’re 100% sure, he would be only average player. Which position is more realistic?