Luka Doncic Part III

[UcanUwill]

Well, I on the other hand never believed you watch NBA at all. Dude, we all, know who you are, you are Euroleague fanboy, who believes Dragic would be average in Euroleague Your perception of Euroleague is just delusional, and I doubt you believe half things you actually claim.

Evan Turner was a second overall pick for a reason. Dude is super smart and he just knows how to dominate non athletic white guys. Dude with his size, basketball IQ and playmaker skills would thrive in Euroleague. Far worse NBA players found success in Europe. You can claim otherwise, but do not think you can bull me, I am very well familiar with Euroleague and NBA level of competition.

Anyway, this is just off topic and beside the point.

[Mirotic12]

Well, I on the other hand never believed you watch NBA at all. Dude, we all, know who you are, you are Euroleague fanboy, who believes Dragic would be average in Euroleague Your perception of Euroleague is just delusional, and I doubt you believe half things you actually claim.

Evan Turner was a second overall pick for a reason. Dude is super smart and he just knows how to dominate non athletic white guys. Dude with his size, basketball IQ and playmaker skills would thrive in Euroleague. Far worse NBA players found success in Europe. You can claim otherwise, but do not think you can bull me, I am very well familiar with Euroleague and NBA level of competition.

Anyway, this is just off topic and beside the point.

I have watched NBA for almost as long as I watched EuroLeague. I am not a EuroLeague fan boy. If I was then how could I be 100% right on every single player that came from Europe to NBA in this forum.

Mirotic
Bender
Hezonja
Rubio

etc., etc. I have never been off even in the slightest on any player from Europe and what they were.

It's just unbelievable to me that we have to in 2018 still see how the best players in Europe are probably not even as good as random average role player in NBA (Turner, Ingles, etc.). I could expect to see these posts in 1988, but it's 2018.

And it is true - if someone did the opposite and said something like, in EuroLeague, Stephen Curry would probably not even be as good as Janis Strelnieks....I am totally sure that person would get a quick ban, or at the least they would be attacked huge by almost all other posters.

The equivalent of saying Curry would be Strelnieks at best in EuroLeague, is saying "Doncic is Ingles or Evan Turner". But somehow, when it is talking about a guy in Europe, that's just objective, factual, and realistic posting. It's a colossal level double standard.

[ProfitQ]

Doncic is way better than Joe Ingles. He's way better than Hedo, way, way better than Hedo. But at least I can see some reasoning in how you came to those comparisons. Evan Turner...no. Doncic is so much better it's an outright gigantic insult.

Are you comparing Doncic to Hedo now or in his prime? Because I can assure Doncic is not better than a prime Hedo averaging 20/6/5 on a 58TS% on one of the best teams in the league. Also to say a rookie is way better than Joe Ingles, one of the most underrated, efficient basketball players in the league is bizarre to me. You could make an argument that he's had a better season(at 30 years old, no less) than every rookie sans Simmons and Mitchell.

I guess I just don't get what you have to gain by using so much hyperbole.

[daoneandonly]

Well, I on the other hand never believed you watch NBA at all. Dude, we all, know who you are, you are Euroleague fanboy, who believes Dragic would be average in Euroleague Your perception of Euroleague is just delusional, and I doubt you believe half things you actually claim.

Evan Turner was a second overall pick for a reason. Dude is super smart and he just knows how to dominate non athletic white guys. Dude with his size, basketball IQ and playmaker skills would thrive in Euroleague. Far worse NBA players found success in Europe. You can claim otherwise, but do not think you can bull me, I am very well familiar with Euroleague and NBA level of competition.

Anyway, this is just off topic and beside the point.

I have watched NBA for almost as long as I watched EuroLeague. I am not a EuroLeague fan boy. If I was then how could I be 100% right on every single player that came from Europe to NBA in this forum.

Mirotic
Bender
Hezonja
Rubio

etc., etc. I have never been off even in the slightest on any player from Europe and what they were.

It's just unbelievable to me that we have to in 2018 still see how the best players in Europe are probably not even as good as random average role player in NBA (Turner, Ingles, etc.). I could expect to see these posts in 1988, but it's 2018.

And it is true - if someone did the opposite and said something like, in EuroLeague, Stephen Curry would probably not even be as good as Janis Strelnieks....I am totally sure that person would get a quick ban, or at the least they would be attacked huge by almost all other posters.

The equivalent of saying Curry would be Strelnieks at best in EuroLeague, is saying "Doncic is Ingles or Evan Turner". But somehow, when it is talking about a guy in Europe, that's just objective, factual, and realistic posting. It's a colossal level double standard.

So did you call Rigadeau being a bust in the NBA even though he was a supposed star in euroleague? cause you refereed his name before as if he were something special, he's proven he's not

And don't blame Ucan for the Ingles/Hedo Doncic comparisons, that was me. So if he's not them, who in the NBA past or present does he most resemble in your opinion?

[Mirotic12]

Are you comparing Doncic to Hedo now or in his prime? Because I can assure Doncic is not better than a prime Hedo averaging 20/6/5 on a 58TS% on one of the best teams in the league. Also to say a rookie is way better than Joe Ingles, one of the most underrated, efficient basketball players in the league is bizarre to me. You could make an argument that he's had a better season(at 30 years old, no less) than every rookie sans Simmons and Mitchell.

I guess I just don't get what you have to gain by using so much hyperbole.

It's a huge insult to Doncic that he even gets mentioned with Ingles and Hedo. And I am fairly certain that the vast majority of people that follow European basketball closely would agree with me completely on that.

The only hyperbole here in this thread is that somehow average NBA players like Hedo or Ingles are somehow comparable to a top 3 European player, or that in fact, are actually better.

[Mirotic12]

So did you call Rigadeau being a bust in the NBA even though he was a supposed star in euroleague? cause you refereed his name before as if he were something special, he's proven he's not

And don't blame Ucan for the Ingles/Hedo Doncic comparisons, that was me. So if he's not them, who in the NBA past or present does he most resemble in your opinion?

I never once said anyting about Rigaudeau in the NBA. I said he was an example of a European guard that would have done well if he was given a chance by his NBA coach.

Same with Spanoulis and Sasha Djordjevic.

Rigaudeau was 6-7 or 6-8, he could handle the ball, and he was a deadly outside shooter. He was miles better than someone like Marco Bellineli for example. I never said one thing about him as an NBA player. I was simply using an example that when you claim no European guard ever was good in NBA, you also included a bunch of guys that didn't get a chance from their NBA coach.

Drazen Petrovic spent 2 years riding the bench with the Blazers under Rick Adelman. All because Adelman didn't believe a European player could play in the NBA. Adelman actually admitted that years later in an interview, saying he was taught no one but Americans can play basketball and that he truly benched Drazen solely for being European.

The same thing happened to Spanoulis and Djordjevic. You use examples of that as a proof that European guards can't play in NBA.

Here is the logic you are using here,

"Drazen Petrovic (on the Blazers) was a EuroLeague scrub who wasn't good enough to play in the NBA".

Petrovic (on the Nets)....you simply refused to even list that as an example of a European guard that ever played in the NBA.

So you either refuse to list any European guard that was a good NBA player, or that performed better in NBA than they did in Europe (such as Dragic or Calderon), and then list guys like Rigaudeau (that their coaches were simply not going to give them a shot), as an example to prove your incorrect personal theory of NBA never having a worthy European guard.

[ProfitQ]

Are you comparing Doncic to Hedo now or in his prime? Because I can assure Doncic is not better than a prime Hedo averaging 20/6/5 on a 58TS% on one of the best teams in the league. Also to say a rookie is way better than Joe Ingles, one of the most underrated, efficient basketball players in the league is bizarre to me. You could make an argument that he's had a better season(at 30 years old, no less) than every rookie sans Simmons and Mitchell.

I guess I just don't get what you have to gain by using so much hyperbole.

It's a huge insult to Doncic that he even gets mentioned with Ingles and Hedo. And I am fairly certain that the vast majority of people that follow European basketball closely would agree with me completely on that.

The only hyperbole here in this thread is that somehow average NBA players like Hedo or Ingles are somehow comparable to a top 3 European player, or that in fact, are actually better.

So you think, right now, given the chance, Doncic would average a better stateline than 20/6/5 on a 58TS% for one of the best teams in the NBA? Or be the second best player putting up 17/5/5 on the second best team in the league? Right now?

[daoneandonly]

So did you call Rigadeau being a bust in the NBA even though he was a supposed star in euroleague? cause you refereed his name before as if he were something special, he's proven he's not

And don't blame Ucan for the Ingles/Hedo Doncic comparisons, that was me. So if he's not them, who in the NBA past or present does he most resemble in your opinion?

I never once said anyting about Rigaudeau in the NBA. I said he was an example of a European guard that would have done well if he was given a chance by his NBA coach.

Same with Spanoulis and Sasha Djordjevic.

Rigaudeau was 6-7 or 6-8, he could handle the ball, and he was a deadly outside shooter. He was miles better than someone like Marco Bellineli for example. I never said one thing about him as an NBA player. I was simply using an example that when you claim no European guard ever was good in NBA, you also included a bunch of guys that didn't get a chance from their NBA coach.

Drazen Petrovic spent 2 years riding the bench with the Blazers under Rick Adelman. All because Adelman didn't believe a European player could play in the NBA. Adelman actually admitted that years later in an interview, saying he was taught no one but Americans can play basketball and that he truly benched Drazen solely for being European.

The same thing happened to Spanoulis and Djordjevic. You use examples of that as a proof that European guards can't play in NBA.

Here is the logic you are using here,

"Drazen Petrovic (on the Blazers) was a EuroLeague scrub who wasn't good enough to play in the NBA".

Petrovic (on the Nets)....you simply refused to even list that as an example of a European guard that ever played in the NBA.

So you either refuse to list any European guard that was a good NBA player, or that performed better in NBA than they did in Europe (such as Dragic or Calderon), and then list guys like Rigaudeau (that their coaches were simply not going to give them a shot), as an example to prove your incorrect and untrue personal theory of NBA never having a worth European guard.

Now, you are trying to use your own claims, as a way to make me look like I am trolling. Using something said about Rigaudeau, and taking it completely out of context to what i was talking about, and using that as a way to discredit anything I say.

Anyway, it's not tactful enough to work.

Except the Mavs are a bit of an international hub of talent with Dirk and nash leading the way, so guys were given chances if they could play, Rigadeau couldn't plain and simple, he sucked here, his dominance over talent in euroleague did not show up against nba talent

[Mirotic12]

Except the Mavs are a bit of an international hub of talent with Dirk and nash leading the way, so guys were given chances if they could play, Rigadeau couldn't plain and simple, he sucked here, his dominance over talent in euroleague did not show up against nba talent

OK. I think it is best that I just put you on ignore. Nothing personal.

[UcanUwill]

Well, I on the other hand never believed you watch NBA at all. Dude, we all, know who you are, you are Euroleague fanboy, who believes Dragic would be average in Euroleague Your perception of Euroleague is just delusional, and I doubt you believe half things you actually claim.

Evan Turner was a second overall pick for a reason. Dude is super smart and he just knows how to dominate non athletic white guys. Dude with his size, basketball IQ and playmaker skills would thrive in Euroleague. Far worse NBA players found success in Europe. You can claim otherwise, but do not think you can bull me, I am very well familiar with Euroleague and NBA level of competition.

Anyway, this is just off topic and beside the point.

I have watched NBA for almost as long as I watched EuroLeague. I am not a EuroLeague fan boy. If I was then how could I be 100% right on every single player that came from Europe to NBA in this forum.

Mirotic
Bender
Hezonja
Rubio

etc., etc. I have never been off even in the slightest on any player from Europe and what they were.

It's just unbelievable to me that we have to in 2018 still see how the best players in Europe are probably not even as good as random average role player in NBA (Turner, Ingles, etc.). I could expect to see these posts in 1988, but it's 2018.

And it is true - if someone did the opposite and said something like, in EuroLeague, Stephen Curry would probably not even be as good as Janis Strelnieks....I am totally sure that person would get a quick ban, or at the least they would be attacked huge by almost all other posters.

The equivalent of saying Curry would be Strelnieks at best in EuroLeague, is saying "Doncic is Ingles or Evan Turner". But somehow, when it is talking about a guy in Europe, that's just objective, factual, and realistic posting. It's a colossal level double standard.

So how do you explain the fact that best Euroleague players were worse NBA players than Jingles or Turner? Thats just hard on fact. I am talking about guys like DeColo, Shved, Calathes and Spanoulis. Out of those, I only regret not having Nando in the league, I think he is legit, other guys are no big loss at all. Europe has decent players, but if you think Euroleague just stacks good NBA starter level players, you are simply delusional.

[daoneandonly]

Well, I on the other hand never believed you watch NBA at all. Dude, we all, know who you are, you are Euroleague fanboy, who believes Dragic would be average in Euroleague Your perception of Euroleague is just delusional, and I doubt you believe half things you actually claim.

Evan Turner was a second overall pick for a reason. Dude is super smart and he just knows how to dominate non athletic white guys. Dude with his size, basketball IQ and playmaker skills would thrive in Euroleague. Far worse NBA players found success in Europe. You can claim otherwise, but do not think you can bull me, I am very well familiar with Euroleague and NBA level of competition.

Anyway, this is just off topic and beside the point.

I have watched NBA for almost as long as I watched EuroLeague. I am not a EuroLeague fan boy. If I was then how could I be 100% right on every single player that came from Europe to NBA in this forum.

Mirotic
Bender
Hezonja
Rubio

etc., etc. I have never been off even in the slightest on any player from Europe and what they were.

It's just unbelievable to me that we have to in 2018 still see how the best players in Europe are probably not even as good as random average role player in NBA (Turner, Ingles, etc.). I could expect to see these posts in 1988, but it's 2018.

And it is true - if someone did the opposite and said something like, in EuroLeague, Stephen Curry would probably not even be as good as Janis Strelnieks....I am totally sure that person would get a quick ban, or at the least they would be attacked huge by almost all other posters.

The equivalent of saying Curry would be Strelnieks at best in EuroLeague, is saying "Doncic is Ingles or Evan Turner". But somehow, when it is talking about a guy in Europe, that's just objective, factual, and realistic posting. It's a colossal level double standard.

So how do you explain the fact that best Euroleague players were worse NBA players than Jingles or Turner? Thats just hard on fact. I am talking about guys like DeColo, Shved, Calathes and Spanoulis. Out of those, I only regret not having Nando in the league, I think he is legit, other guys are no big loss at all. Europe has decent players, but if you think Euroleague just stacks good NBA starter level players, you are simply delusional.

Thank you for bringing up Calathes, another useless guy that did nothing in the NBA

[Mirotic12]

So how do you explain the fact that best Euroleague players were worse NBA players than Jingles or Turner? Thats just hard on fact. I am talking about guys like DeColo, Shved, Calathes and Spanoulis. Out of those, I only regret not having Nando in the league, I think he is legit, other guys are no big loss at all. Europe has decent players, but if you think Euroleague just stacks good NBA starter level players, you are simply delusional.

Stating facts, like Doncic is a much better player than Ingles or Turner (something probably 99% of NBA talent people would agree with)...make a few posts like that, and within a few responses, you get labeled as being "delusional". '

Just imagine...numerous NBA teams are considering using a #1 overall draft pick on a guy that probably isn't even as good as Evan Turner or Joe Ingles. It's truly crazy.

[UcanUwill]

Stating facts, like Doncic is a much better player than Ingles or Turner (something probably 99% of NBA talent people would agree with)...make a few posts like that, and within a few responses, you get labeled as being "delusional". '

Imagine...NBA teams considering using a #1 draft pick on a guy that probably isn't even as good as Evan Turner or Joe Ingles. It's truly crazy.

Your delusion about Euroleague superiority is long establsihed, way before this conversation occurred. Its just amazing how you can be so dedicated all the time. You are just agenda poster, when something tries to compare NBA to Euroleague, you always show up with your takes. Now I bet if Doncic struggles his first year, you will flip flop and say how Doncic wasn't even all that special in Euroleague, simply because it would make Euroleague look better. I bet.

Now I mentioned Evan Turner as his worst case scenario, I think thats fair. Other guy mentioned Hedo, but he basically thinks Doncic is a bust if taken top 5, and thats fine, every single top prospect this year has doubters and haters. None of the guys this year look bust proof, JJJ is probably the closest of being bust proof.

[juanc]

Euroleage(and european basketball) actually has never been closer to NBA,(quality, style of play, talent,...) as it is now. IMO the new format is one of the greatest decisions they've made.
Mirotic12 actually has some good points in his posts, but he has a special way of presenting them... Offcourse he also has some ridicouolous examples(like Shved /Turner comparisson), but hey we all have them...

Ontopic- In my opinion couldn't get injured at a more apropriate time(If he realy is injured). He will get some rest and when he returns he will have a couple of games to adjust before the playoff starts. I think that when he comes back we his game will be closer to what it was in oct/nov than how it was in feb..

[Bob8]

Stating facts, like Doncic is a much better player than Ingles or Turner (something probably 99% of NBA talent people would agree with)...make a few posts like that, and within a few responses, you get labeled as being "delusional". '

Imagine...NBA teams considering using a #1 draft pick on a guy that probably isn't even as good as Evan Turner or Joe Ingles. It's truly crazy.

Your delusion about Euroleague superiority is long establsihed, way before this conversation occurred. Its just amazing how you can be so dedicated all the time. You are just agenda poster, when something tries to compare NBA to Euroleague, you always show up with your takes. Now I bet if Doncic struggles his first year, you will flip flop and say how Doncic wasn't even all that special in Euroleague, simply because it would make Euroleague look better. I bet.

Now I mentioned Evan Turner as his worst case scenario, I think thats fair. Other guy mentioned Hedo, but he basically thinks Doncic is a bust if taken top 5, and thats fine, every single top prospect this year has doubters and haters. None of the guys this year look bust proof, JJJ is probably the closest of being bust proof.

I kinda doubt that Ayton&co. are being compared with 6/2/2 guys often, but maybe I'm wrong.

[FlorentinoPerez]

This thread is going nuts

[Nikson]

Stating facts, like Doncic is a much better player than Ingles or Turner (something probably 99% of NBA talent people would agree with)...make a few posts like that, and within a few responses, you get labeled as being "delusional". '

Imagine...NBA teams considering using a #1 draft pick on a guy that probably isn't even as good as Evan Turner or Joe Ingles. It's truly crazy.

Your delusion about Euroleague superiority is long establsihed, way before this conversation occurred. Its just amazing how you can be so dedicated all the time. You are just agenda poster, when something tries to compare NBA to Euroleague, you always show up with your takes. Now I bet if Doncic struggles his first year, you will flip flop and say how Doncic wasn't even all that special in Euroleague, simply because it would make Euroleague look better. I bet.

Now I mentioned Evan Turner as his worst case scenario, I think thats fair. Other guy mentioned Hedo, but he basically thinks Doncic is a bust if taken top 5, and thats fine, every single top prospect this year has doubters and haters. None of the guys this year look bust proof, JJJ is probably the closest of being bust proof.

I kinda doubt that Ayton&co. are being compared with 6/2/2 guys often, but maybe I'm wrong.

I would compare him. I think it’s a fair comparasion. Dončić is better.
He is special. A lot of people just don’t recognize it yet.
But this will not be Luka’s problem he, he, he.

[RookieStar]

Slightly OT :

to all the Hedo haters out there : you guys are nuts. I don't know when his prime was BUT when we had him in the magic, Hedo/Shard/Dwight was a lethal combo.

Also, Hedo was for us, the role-player all star if you know what I mean. He brings the ball and orchestrate the offense ( hence , our PG could score rather than distribute ) , he was a triple threat in that he could pass, take a 3 or drive ( being a 6'10 SF was abig advantage back then ), he takes clutch shots ( his BOS buzzer-beater had us jumping nuts ) HE was also a good defender ( to be fair all our guys had to do was funnel them to Dwight and it was an instant miss or block for us ).

So if Doncic is AT LEAST or more than Hedo, then that's good for us. As long as he isn't the Pizza Hedo in TOR.

[Nikson]

What is really interesting is that there in ours conversations we can’t compare some things.

There are people who think they know how other players are good and Dončić’s results in Euroleague and Euro Championship are meaningless because competition is really bad.

But we don’t know if 18-19 years old LeBron, Wade, Anthony, Paul, and other former and today proven stars and even AllStars would do better or worse against Euroleague competition of 25-35 years old real man?
We can asume they would be worse than him or he is better than they would be at their 18-19 years but we can’t prove it.

Even less can we say for today’s 18-19 years old prospects. LeBron, Wade, Anthony ... at least have proved they can become excellent players but this prospects haven’t proved anything.

[Nikson]

One thing I am confident about is that in their 18-19 age, LeBron, Wade, Anthony..., would not only struggle to win against Euroleague and Eurocup competition, they would probably even lose some games against them.