What will it take for Ballmer to admit that the GM/Coach Doc experiment has failed?

[Ranma]

So Doc proactively sabotaged his teams in addition to doing so through his utter incompetence. While, on some level, it was admirable on his part not to screw over a friend and mentee, it shows that he doesn't put his teams first with respect to personal priorities. And Doc apologists wonder why there is criticism over giving his son opportunities that weren't afforded to his own hand-picked draft picks.

[Ranma]

Doc has literally done more to ruin franchises than help.

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[esqtvd]

now we're importing random RDS d-baggers off the internet LOL
as if we din't have enough of our own

at least this is a dedicated Doc Sucks thread so it's on-topic for a change



delicious

[og15]

I don't find that believable as Doc was just a coach in Boston. Ainge took his advice and consulted with him as all management should with coaching, but Ainge was the one making the roster decisions. It's more likely that New Orleans wanted more than Boston could offer. The Boston big three was already old by then, Paul lucked out, they had like one run left in them.

[og15]

now we're importing random RDS d-baggers off the internet LOL
as if we din't have enough of our own

at least this is a dedicated Doc Sucks thread so it's on-topic for a change



delicious

I'd suggest either ignore the posts or to actually discuss them. If you don't like them, going around subtly backseat moderating is not acceptable. If it isn't against forum rules, we're not going to censor opinions just because we dislike them.

[Quake Griffin]

I want the pick back that we dealt for Gallo. I don't think this FO as currently constructed would have dealt it...at least in that scenario. There's some swing for the fences potential at the end of the 1st round.

I can only imagine it was Doc championing the idea that ANOTHER pick could go out to bring in a player.

Anywho. I didn't mind Doc staying on as GM and I love the moves the front office is made and the direction they have the team in. While he may have input, I don't think his input is limiting our progress. The other thing I was scared of was whether he was ready to coach and develop players. He has alleviated some of my concern by staying on as coach after losing CP and being stripped of his GM duties.

It looks like he is going to keep his job but I will be sleeping with one eye open when it comes to the development of our two 2018 draft picks.

[og15]

Gallo is liked around the league, West likes him too, he's an efficient and versatile 3/4 who can also defend better than most think. The problem is that he's never healthy and the FO likely made a poor judgement call on expecting him to be healthy. Outside of the bad health it was a good move especially since we came into the season trying to see what f Blake could have superstar impact and Gallo in theory was a good fit with him.

[esqtvd]

now we're importing random RDS d-baggers off the internet LOL
as if we din't have enough of our own

at least this is a dedicated Doc Sucks thread so it's on-topic for a change



delicious

I'd suggest either ignore the posts or to actually discuss them. If you don't like them, going around subtly backseat moderating is not acceptable. If it isn't against forum rules, we're not going to censor opinions just because we dislike them.

I was complementing this for being on-topic for a change

[esqtvd]

Gallo is liked around the league, West likes him too, he's an efficient and versatile 3/4 who can also defend better than most think. The problem is that he's never healthy and the FO likely made a poor judgement call on expecting him to be healthy. Outside of the bad health it was a good move especially since we came into the season trying to see what f Blake could have superstar impact and Gallo in theory was a good fit with him.

The injuries this year were unlucky ones, not part of a chronic injury type [knees, ankles, back]. Yes, Gallo was another desperation move to keep the Clippers relevant, yet again, the cost was not high. Late FRPs are way overrated.

They took a shot. Now with Blake gone, we're back to earth and such moves will not be repeated.

[Quake Griffin]

Gallo is liked around the league, West likes him too, he's an efficient and versatile 3/4 who can also defend better than most think. The problem is that he's never healthy and the FO likely made a poor judgement call on expecting him to be healthy. Outside of the bad health it was a good move especially since we came into the season trying to see what f Blake could have superstar impact and Gallo in theory was a good fit with him.

Oh I like and wanted Gallo...had for years.

I just want that pick back.



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[og15]

now we're importing random RDS d-baggers off the internet LOL
as if we din't have enough of our own

at least this is a dedicated Doc Sucks thread so it's on-topic for a change



delicious

I'd suggest either ignore the posts or to actually discuss them. If you don't like them, going around subtly backseat moderating is not acceptable. If it isn't against forum rules, we're not going to censor opinions just because we dislike them.

I was complementing this for being on-topic for a change

Gotcha, but that still holds in general, we try to be fairly lenient on the forum as to not make people feel restricted, so I would encourage either using the ignore feature, just skip over posts, or yes, the report feature also, but not so much calling people out and trying to moderate them.

Gallo is liked around the league, West likes him too, he's an efficient and versatile 3/4 who can also defend better than most think. The problem is that he's never healthy and the FO likely made a poor judgement call on expecting him to be healthy. Outside of the bad health it was a good move especially since we came into the season trying to see what f Blake could have superstar impact and Gallo in theory was a good fit with him.

The injuries this year were unlucky ones, not part of a chronic injury type [knees, ankles, back]. Yes, Gallo was another desperation move to keep the Clippers relevant, yet again, the cost was not high. Late FRPs are way overrated.

They took a shot. Now with Blake gone, we're back to earth and such moves will not be repeated.

Gallo is like AD in a sense. While Gallo has had more serious injuries, a lot of his injuries are ticky tack ones. His playing style and just how he moves and attacks the basket is one where he will consistently get ticky-tack injuries, and that's just something a team will have to deal with when it comes to him. It's truly impressive to be able to consistently miss at least ~20 games every season.

[Ranma]

Anywho. I didn't mind Doc staying on as GM and I love the moves the front office is made and the direction they have the team in.

I'm sure you meant Doc staying on as coach since it matches your previous statements on the matter as well as the context of the post this excerpt came from. I just want to be clear so that the Doc apologists don't get too excited, especially with how confused they tend to be with the facts.

[esqtvd]

I'd suggest either ignore the posts or to actually discuss them. If you don't like them, going around subtly backseat moderating is not acceptable. If it isn't against forum rules, we're not going to censor opinions just because we dislike them.

I was complementing this for being on-topic for a change

Gotcha, but that still holds in general, we try to be fairly lenient on the forum as to not make people feel restricted

no problem there LOL




and no, it's not about content, OG, it's about hijacking every thread, even game threads when we won
we should at least be able to point it out and laugh about it




As for Gallo, if it were only 20 games a year he misses I suppose you can live with that
I think we were all prepared for that going in

[Quake Griffin]

Anywho. I didn't mind Doc staying on as GM and I love the moves the front office is made and the direction they have the team in.

I'm sure you meant Doc staying on as coach since it matches your previous statements on the matter as well as the context of the post this excerpt came from. I just want to be clear so that the Doc apologists don't get too excited, especially with how confused they tend to be with the facts.

Yes, Doc as coach.*****
Thank you for that.

Heavens no at him staying on as GM.
I couldn't stand another year of his incompetence.

[MartinToVaught]

Yes, Gallo was another desperation move to keep the Clippers relevant, yet again, the cost was not high. Late FRPs are way overrated.

No, they aren't. There's nothing "overrated" about having cheap young talent under team control, especially during a severe salary-cap crunch around the league.

Bottom line: if Doc had ever been any good at drafting, you'd be trumpeting the importance of draft picks. Because he was clueless at it, you are instead trying to devalue draft picks.

Between the contract and giving up the pick, the cost was way too high for Gallo compared to his production. I won't criticize too harshly because I thought it was going to be a good move at the time, but it's not looking good now.

[MartinToVaught]

and no, it's not about content, OG, it's about hijacking every thread, even game threads when we won

It is about content. You only ever complain about criticism of Doc and Austin, even though that is on topic.

[MartinToVaught]

So Doc proactively sabotaged his teams in addition to doing so through his utter incompetence. While, on some level, it was admirable on his part not to screw over a friend and mentee, it shows that he doesn't put his teams first with respect to personal priorities. And Doc apologists wonder why there is criticism over giving his son opportunities that weren't afforded to his own hand-picked draft picks.

Another example of this is when he started Pierce against Boston last year. He cared more about giving Pierce his moment than doing his job and trying to win the game.

[esqtvd]

and no, it's not about content, OG, it's about hijacking every thread, even game threads when we won

It is about content. You only ever complain about criticism of Doc and Austin, even though that is on topic.

LOL complaining about Doc's stint as GM in a game thread is definitely


however, d-bagging Doc's coaching with post after post while we're winning a game is just trolling, true


management seems to think that's just fine and groovy, although they should consider the possibility that it chases away readers
I think it's dumb to defend the right of trolls to troll and lose all the better people

[esqtvd]

Yes, Gallo was another desperation move to keep the Clippers relevant, yet again, the cost was not high. Late FRPs are way overrated.

No, they aren't. There's nothing "overrated" about having cheap young talent under team control, especially during a severe salary-cap crunch around the league.

Bottom line: if Doc had ever been any good at drafting, you'd be trumpeting the importance of draft picks. Because he was clueless at it, you are instead trying to devalue draft picks.

Between the contract and giving up the pick, the cost was way too high for Gallo compared to his production. I won't criticize too harshly because I thought it was going to be a good move at the time, but it's not looking good now.

most late draft picks are busts
some become marginal contributors
the Draymond Greens and Rudy Goberts are lucky breaks--that the whole league passed on the first go-round

but I'm not disputing that Doc had zero successes in the longshot department
I have no problem with replacing him
his success as GM was getting minimum-wage veterans to come play for us

indeed, even after he stepped down Milos and Gallo CHOSE to come here--if you recall [you probably don't] they were both UFAs

[Ranma]

I don't find that believable as Doc was just a coach in Boston. Ainge took his advice and consulted with him as all management should with coaching, but Ainge was the one making the roster decisions. It's more likely that New Orleans wanted more than Boston could offer. The Boston big three was already old by then, Paul lucked out, they had like one run left in them.

That's a good point, which I've seen mentioned elsewhere as well. It is certainly reasonable to think that Ainge didn't want to pay the price to acquire Chris Paul given what it took to eventually acquire him, but don't forget that the Lakers almost pulled off a sweetheart deal for him before David Stern nixed it in the best interests of the New Orleans Pelicans.

Still, Ray Allen as closed off as he is with his teammates is recognized as an intelligent and insightful person beyond just being a talented basketball player and he apparently perceived that Doc was the one who prevented Chris Paul from joining the Celtics. Obviously, Ainge is as headstrong of a GM as there is in the NBA, but it has been noted that Doc and he disagreed on things a lot during their time together but they supposedly also had a give-and-take working relationship according to Doc himself, so maybe Ainge gave Doc's input serious consideration in that particular case in order to give his coach a concession. The fact that it didn't work out in that instance could very well have reinforced Ainge's instincts to discard Doc's feedback. Maybe it was a moment of weakness for Ainge that further strengthened his resolve.

Doc's lack of success from limitations both self-imposed and not could have added further frustration along with the Celtics' rebuild movement that resulted in him looking for more power with another organization, which ended up being the Clippers. Obviously, that's a narrative I put together from my own perspective, but I want to go back to Allen. Why would he have the perception that Doc was responsible for CP3 not joining him? Maybe Doc made such comments to the team or maybe Allen got word from someone else in the front office. It just seems odd that a thoughtful and reserved player like Ray Allen would make such an accusation without having support for such a claim.

Furthermore, Doc is noted for being responsible for Tim Duncan not joining the Magic and there was even word that leaked of Chris Paul leaving from frustrations with Doc, which included his refusal to trade away Austin Rivers for Carmelo Anthony. It certainly doesn't seem out of the ordinary for Doc to pull such a stunt. Maybe it's a case of just piling on Doc after the fact, but as I've pointed out, it's a matter of believing that Ainge would ever have given Doc a single concession and Allen's opinion on the matter.