Luka Doncic Part III

[UcanUwill]

Since there is some interesting questions, against which legitimate NBA players has Doncic played (although trying to cover it with "in Euroleague"), I checked a bit his last summer NT games (preparation and Eurobasket) and here is the list of players, who in current season (2017/18) average more than 10 pts through whole season (so I left the one with lower averages):

points/rebounds/assist

Kristaps Porzingis..........22,6/6,6/1,2
Evan Fournier...............17,8/3,2/2,9
Marc Gasol .................17,7/8,5/4,1
Dario Saric..................15,0/6,9/2,7
Lauri Markkanen...........14,9/7,6/1,2
Bojan Bogdanovic..........14,2/3,4/1,5
Ricky Rubio..................12,3/4,5/5,4
Bogdan Bogdanovic........11,7/2,9/3,4
Pau Gasol...................10,6/8,3/3,3

Luka was basically better against majority of them in head to head situations on court.

Yeah, ignorant American fans who claim Doncic is not proven are completely clueless. Its complete opposite, Doncic is proven against NBA caliber players, and he plays somewhat NBA caliber players every week, where College players play other teenagers, of whom most will never sniff NBA/Euroleague level.

And don't get me started on - ''NBA drafts far more NCAA players, therefore NCAA has more NBA caliber players than Euroleague''. Absolutely false statement, to begin with, how many NCAA players get drafted, very small percentage. Second, just because player gets drafted by NBA, doesn't necesarily make him more NBA caliber than a vet on his prime who played his way to top 16 teams outside the NBA. Just look at European prospects who gets drafted and compare him to Euroleague veterans. Bender, Hezonja, Ntlikina were equivalent of AAA highschool recruits, they got drafted, and they now play in the NBA. But would you say they at least above average Euroleague caliber players now? Probably not. Euroleague players are vets, if they were all 18-20 and playing at the same level as they are, 90% of them would be draft material at the least.

[Bob8]

nobody who compares Doncic to Ingles is high on Doncic. Ingles career stats are 6/2/2. Physically unprepared and plagued with injuries Teodosic has 9.3/3/5 in his rookie year.

I didn't compare him to Ingles, I think, tho I agree they play similar game. But when people say Ingles, they dont mean rookie 6/2/2 Ingles, they mean current Ingles who is a damn solid player. Doncic is most certainly gonna have higher scoring rate than Ingles, but lets say Doncic stagnates and struggles against NBA athletes, which is possible, he could end up as ultimate role player, he is not a lock to be superstar like some of you think. Thats what people are saying, they are not saying Doncic is 6/3/3 player in the NBA.
I have doubt about every single player in this draft, Doncic is no exception.

Ingles career stats are 6.7/2.6/2.8. I cannot see how Doncic can be worse than Teodosic in his rookie year. And knowing that he’s 7 years younger than Bogdanovic, I cannot see how he won’t be much better player than him.

Because of all that, we can give very realistic projection for Doncic’s rookie year. The biggest unknown variable is where he will play. If he gets keys of the team, I can see him easy have similar numbers than in Europe in his rookie year. If not, I guess his numbers will be something like Bogdanovic’s.

[UcanUwill]

nobody who compares Doncic to Ingles is high on Doncic. Ingles career stats are 6/2/2. Physically unprepared and plagued with injuries Teodosic has 9.3/3/5 in his rookie year.

I didn't compare him to Ingles, I think, tho I agree they play similar game. But when people say Ingles, they dont mean rookie 6/2/2 Ingles, they mean current Ingles who is a damn solid player. Doncic is most certainly gonna have higher scoring rate than Ingles, but lets say Doncic stagnates and struggles against NBA athletes, which is possible, he could end up as ultimate role player, he is not a lock to be superstar like some of you think. Thats what people are saying, they are not saying Doncic is 6/3/3 player in the NBA.
I have doubt about every single player in this draft, Doncic is no exception.

Ingles career stats are 6.7/2.6/2.8. I cannot see how Doncic can be worse than Teodosic in his rookie year. And knowing that he’s 7 years younger than Bogdanovic, I cannot see how he won’t be much better player than him.

Because of all that, we can give very realistic projection for Doncic’s rookie year. The biggest unknown variable is where he will play. If he gets keys of the team, I can see him easy have similar numbers than in Europe in his rookie year. If not, I guess his numbers will be something like Bogdanovic’s.

I really hope you are right, don't get me wrong. I would say I am pretty high on Doncic, but at the same time I also prepare for the worst.

[Bob8]

I didn't compare him to Ingles, I think, tho I agree they play similar game. But when people say Ingles, they dont mean rookie 6/2/2 Ingles, they mean current Ingles who is a damn solid player. Doncic is most certainly gonna have higher scoring rate than Ingles, but lets say Doncic stagnates and struggles against NBA athletes, which is possible, he could end up as ultimate role player, he is not a lock to be superstar like some of you think. Thats what people are saying, they are not saying Doncic is 6/3/3 player in the NBA.
I have doubt about every single player in this draft, Doncic is no exception.

Ingles career stats are 6.7/2.6/2.8. I cannot see how Doncic can be worse than Teodosic in his rookie year. And knowing that he’s 7 years younger than Bogdanovic, I cannot see how he won’t be much better player than him.

Because of all that, we can give very realistic projection for Doncic’s rookie year. The biggest unknown variable is where he will play. If he gets keys of the team, I can see him easy have similar numbers than in Europe in his rookie year. If not, I guess his numbers will be something like Bogdanovic’s.

I really hope you are right, don't get me wrong. I would say I am pretty high on Doncic, but at the same time I also prepare for the worst.

2 years ago, start of his professional career. still a kid, nobody in Europe. and that’s how he looked against Nba team. he’s 10x better now. there’s no reason to be afraid.

Watch on YouTube

[Bob8]

Let's hear what coaching legend said about Luka,

Dusan Ivkovic

"I think there's a very clear answer this season, because in the EuroLeague you have one young guy who is making a big, big difference: Luka Doncic. For talent at the same age as he is, I can say very simply that I've been lucky to coach many big names. But if I can compare him now, at the same age, with Petrovic, Radja, Kukoc, Divac, Danilovic, Djordjevic... I think none of them was so mature a player at such a young age as this guy Luka Doncic. Why? It's very simple. Creation is the most beautiful part of basketball, and he can create his own shot and create for others. He's also a great rebounder and can defend very well. So, for sure, he's the name I would start my team with."

[Nikson]

Ingles career stats are 6.7/2.6/2.8. I cannot see how Doncic can be worse than Teodosic in his rookie year. And knowing that he’s 7 years younger than Bogdanovic, I cannot see how he won’t be much better player than him.

Because of all that, we can give very realistic projection for Doncic’s rookie year. The biggest unknown variable is where he will play. If he gets keys of the team, I can see him easy have similar numbers than in Europe in his rookie year. If not, I guess his numbers will be something like Bogdanovic’s.

I really hope you are right, don't get me wrong. I would say I am pretty high on Doncic, but at the same time I also prepare for the worst.

2 years ago, start of his professional career. still a kid, nobody in Europe. and that’s how he looked against Nba team. he’s 10x better now. there’s no reason to be afraid.

Watch on YouTube

And this is at his 17 years of age, right?

[Bob8]

yes, 17. interesting enough that vast majority of Americans still think, that what MPJ did against 6’0” kids, who will never again play basketball in their life, counts more. strange world.

[daoneandonly]

Let's hear what coaching legend said about Luka,

Dusan Ivkovic

"I think there's a very clear answer this season, because in the EuroLeague you have one young guy who is making a big, big difference: Luka Doncic. For talent at the same age as he is, I can say very simply that I've been lucky to coach many big names. But if I can compare him now, at the same age, with Petrovic, Radja, Kukoc, Divac, Danilovic, Djordjevic... I think none of them was so mature a player at such a young age as this guy Luka Doncic. Why? It's very simple. Creation is the most beautiful part of basketball, and he can create his own shot and create for others. He's also a great rebounder and can defend very well. So, for sure, he's the name I would start my team with."

There's an argument, any coach can say, I compare him now, at the same age to Devean George, Eric Snow, and John Salmons. Using every day role players as comparisons is not a strong argument, and those guys you have bolded are nobodies in basketball. Heck Kulkoc was solid, but never amounted to the hype that surrounded him.

[Bob8]

Let's hear what coaching legend said about Luka,

Dusan Ivkovic

"I think there's a very clear answer this season, because in the EuroLeague you have one young guy who is making a big, big difference: Luka Doncic. For talent at the same age as he is, I can say very simply that I've been lucky to coach many big names. But if I can compare him now, at the same age, with Petrovic, Radja, Kukoc, Divac, Danilovic, Djordjevic... I think none of them was so mature a player at such a young age as this guy Luka Doncic. Why? It's very simple. Creation is the most beautiful part of basketball, and he can create his own shot and create for others. He's also a great rebounder and can defend very well. So, for sure, he's the name I would start my team with."

There's an argument, any coach can say, I compare him now, at the same age to Devean George, Eric Snow, and John Salmons. Using every day role players as comparisons is not a strong argument, and those guys you have bolded are nobodies in basketball. Heck Kulkoc was solid, but never amounted to the hype that surrounded him.

This is last time I’m talking to you.

First, I didn’t bold anybody. You did.
Second, Ivkovic is legendary coach from Europe and he is comparing great players he coached to Doncic. He’s saying that Doncic is better than young Petrovic. That’s enough for me.
Third, Who do you think can evaluate Doncic more accurate, great coach or you?

Bye.

[Nikson]

This is Earth, 15.3.2018.
We are trying to debate on data based evidences.
Trade is only open to operationally capable people.

[daoneandonly]

This is Earth, 15.3.2018.
We are trying to debate on data based evidences.
Trade is only open to operationally capable people.

It's 3.15.2018, we don't have 15 months in a year. That's how dates are written here, have respect for it.

[daoneandonly]

Let's hear what coaching legend said about Luka,

Dusan Ivkovic

"I think there's a very clear answer this season, because in the EuroLeague you have one young guy who is making a big, big difference: Luka Doncic. For talent at the same age as he is, I can say very simply that I've been lucky to coach many big names. But if I can compare him now, at the same age, with Petrovic, Radja, Kukoc, Divac, Danilovic, Djordjevic... I think none of them was so mature a player at such a young age as this guy Luka Doncic. Why? It's very simple. Creation is the most beautiful part of basketball, and he can create his own shot and create for others. He's also a great rebounder and can defend very well. So, for sure, he's the name I would start my team with."

There's an argument, any coach can say, I compare him now, at the same age to Devean George, Eric Snow, and John Salmons. Using every day role players as comparisons is not a strong argument, and those guys you have bolded are nobodies in basketball. Heck Kulkoc was solid, but never amounted to the hype that surrounded him.

This is last time I’m talking to you.

First, I didn’t bold anybody. You did.
Second, Ivkovic is legendary coach from Europe and he is comparing great players he coached to Doncic. He’s saying that Doncic is better than young Petrovic. That’s enough for me.
Third, Who do you think can evaluate Doncic more accurate, great coach or you?

Bye.

Yea small typo, I bolded them to call them out from the others this supposed legendary coach who never even had a job offer from the NBA made. People who bleed basketball probably never heard of those guys, so yeah, they are nobodies.

[Bob8]

http://www.fiba.basketball/news/2017-class-of-fiba-hall-of-fame-dusan-ivkovic

[UcanUwill]

There's an argument, any coach can say, I compare him now, at the same age to Devean George, Eric Snow, and John Salmons. Using every day role players as comparisons is not a strong argument, and those guys you have bolded are nobodies in basketball. Heck Kulkoc was solid, but never amounted to the hype that surrounded him.

This is last time I’m talking to you.

First, I didn’t bold anybody. You did.
Second, Ivkovic is legendary coach from Europe and he is comparing great players he coached to Doncic. He’s saying that Doncic is better than young Petrovic. That’s enough for me.
Third, Who do you think can evaluate Doncic more accurate, great coach or you?

Bye.

Yea small typo, I bolded them to call them out from the others this supposed legendary coach who never even had a job offer from the NBA made. People who bleed basketball probably never heard of those guys, so yeah, they are nobodies.

If you only care about USA basketball, you might haven't heard of them, but these guys still considered legends by a lot of fans. comparing him to Eric Snow and John Salmons, come on man...

[daoneandonly]

This is last time I’m talking to you.

First, I didn’t bold anybody. You did.
Second, Ivkovic is legendary coach from Europe and he is comparing great players he coached to Doncic. He’s saying that Doncic is better than young Petrovic. That’s enough for me.
Third, Who do you think can evaluate Doncic more accurate, great coach or you?

Bye.

Yea small typo, I bolded them to call them out from the others this supposed legendary coach who never even had a job offer from the NBA made. People who bleed basketball probably never heard of those guys, so yeah, they are nobodies.

If you only care about USA basketball, you might haven't heard of them, but these guys still considered legends by a lot of fans. comparing him to Eric Snow and John Salmons, come on man...

Who's Dilonovich? Sasha Dilonvich? Yeah, just like the legend that is Rigadeau he was on the Mavs, and he sucked. It seems like it's more the rule than the exception of guys being steller in Euroleague ball and not panning out here.

Again I never said Doncic was going to suck, but he has a better chance of sucking then reaching this epitome of greatness his fanboys are guaranteeing if history is any indication.

[UcanUwill]

Yea small typo, I bolded them to call them out from the others this supposed legendary coach who never even had a job offer from the NBA made. People who bleed basketball probably never heard of those guys, so yeah, they are nobodies.

If you only care about USA basketball, you might haven't heard of them, but these guys still considered legends by a lot of fans. comparing him to Eric Snow and John Salmons, come on man...

Who's Dilonovich? Sasha Dilonvich? Yeah, just like the legend that is Rigadeau he was on the Mavs, and he sucked. It seems like it's more the rule than the exception of guys being steller in Euroleague ball and not panning out here.

Again I never said Doncic was going to suck, but he has a better chance of sucking then reaching this epitome of greatness his fanboys are guaranteeing if history is any indication.

Well, as other poster mentioned, most recent Euroleague exports has translated very well to NBA. With Euroleague getting more and more athletic, we see less and less limited players, like Jasikevicius for example, becoming a stars there. Another thing is NBA becoming far more Euroesque, 15 years ago we had NBA fanboys mocking Euroleague for its overreliance of 3 ball and small ball, just to see NBA become exactly that.

[Nikson]

For an explanation how comparable are quality of NBA and European players, even those who never played in NBA. So is Dončić quality at 17, 18 years also comparable to NBA players.

We have Luka Dončić playing good against Euro-league and Euro championship competition in last 2 years. Particular in last year. In period where he was 17 or 18 years old.


I found just one game as an example. Here we have a nice roster of players at that time USA team. The data show us next facts:
- not one is older than 30 years
- not one is younger than 21 years (all of them was at least 3-4 years older than Luka was last year)
- one of them was that year 2. on MVP list for a regular season (LeBron)
- one of them was that year NBA finals MVP (Wade)
- there are at least 3 All Star players in that year (LeBron, Wade, Bosh)

So the roster was:
USA
- LeBron James
- D. Wade
- C. Bosh
- Carmelo Anthony
- Dwight Howard
- Chris Paul
- Joe Johnson
- Shane Battier
- Antawn Jamison
- Brad Miller
- Elton Brand and
- Kirk Hinrich

We have all heard for these players. We even know approximately at what year they were born. Even average European fan know that data.

They were playing a game against a Greece team. Average american NBA fan does not know not a year of birth, even a name of their opponents. They might have never heard of any of them. Not one.

Greece
Theodoros Papaloukas
Sofoklis Schortsanitis
Nikos Zisis
Vassilis Spanoulis
Panagiotis Vasilopoulos
Antonis Fotsis
Nikos Chatzivrettas
Dimos Dikoudis
Kostas Tsartsaris
Dimitris Diamantidis
Lazaros Papadopoulos
Michalis Kakiouzis

The game was on 1.9.2006.
Greece won. I am an European. In 2006, my two sons were 11 and 12 years old and playing basketball. No need to say they have already know everything about NBA players. They have even rooted for USA. They were under such massive "NBA.com-highlights-MVP-All Stars-finals" pressure. In some way their brain was washed by it. They were shocked. Boys could not believ what was happening. They literally cried when they look at their idols from NBA and see how hopeless were they on the floor.

1.9.2006 was a date when Stars were once again reminded that basketball is played everywhere on planet Earth. And being a NBA champion is not equal being a World champion.

Watch on YouTube

[daoneandonly]

If you only care about USA basketball, you might haven't heard of them, but these guys still considered legends by a lot of fans. comparing him to Eric Snow and John Salmons, come on man...

Who's Dilonovich? Sasha Dilonvich? Yeah, just like the legend that is Rigadeau he was on the Mavs, and he sucked. It seems like it's more the rule than the exception of guys being steller in Euroleague ball and not panning out here.

Again I never said Doncic was going to suck, but he has a better chance of sucking then reaching this epitome of greatness his fanboys are guaranteeing if history is any indication.

Well, as other poster mentioned, most recent Euroleague exports has translated very well to NBA. With Euroleague getting more and more athletic, we see less and less limited players, like Jasikevicius for example, becoming a stars there. Another thing is NBA becoming far more Euroesque, 15 years ago we had NBA fanboys mocking Euroleague for its overreliance of 3 ball and small ball, just to see NBA become exactly that.

WHich perimeter exports would you say translated well? There are good, solid guards absolutely. But I can't think of a superstar, franchise cornerstone at all

[Alatan]

Since there is some interesting questions, against which legitimate NBA players has Doncic played (although trying to cover it with "in Euroleague"), I checked a bit his last summer NT games (preparation and Eurobasket) and here is the list of players, who in current season (2017/18) average more than 10 pts through whole season (so I left the one with lower averages):

points/rebounds/assist

Kristaps Porzingis..........22,6/6,6/1,2
Evan Fournier...............17,8/3,2/2,9
Marc Gasol .................17,7/8,5/4,1
Dario Saric..................15,0/6,9/2,7
Lauri Markkanen...........14,9/7,6/1,2
Bojan Bogdanovic..........14,2/3,4/1,5
Ricky Rubio..................12,3/4,5/5,4
Bogdan Bogdanovic........11,7/2,9/3,4
Pau Gasol...................10,6/8,3/3,3

Luka was basically better against majority of them in head to head situations on court.

Except he wasnt better than majority of them. His tournament stats were 14.3 8.1 3.6 on 41 31 85 shooting in 30 mpg. You make it out as Doncic was carrying Slovenia, but in fact it was Dragic.

[UcanUwill]

WHich perimeter exports would you say translated well? There are good, solid guards absolutely. But I can't think of a superstar, franchise cornerstone at all

You keep hanging on that same argument, but we both know that other players have no actual impact of how good Doncic will be. Its the same argument people use about college schools - Oh, those Duke players busts all the time, so dont draft that other Duke player (example). Its just dumb. Doncic is not following anybodies footprints, he demolished every single achievement past teenage perimeter phenoms before him reached.