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2018 Draft Thread #6

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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1661 » by DuckIII » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:18 pm

GimmeDat wrote:Here's an interesting hypothetical - say Trae Young falls to the 10-12 range, and say our Pelicans pick is in the 14-18 range. Let's say 18 for the sake of the example. Would you trade Portis to move up and take Young?


1. At that point I might. Then you are using your second pick on the high risk home run ball. I’m okay with that.

2. I don’t see another team doing it. At 10 I suspect every team would just take him hoping he turns out to be a Paul Pierce type return at 10. Same rationale as why you would trade up.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1662 » by Leslie Forman » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:39 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:Can any one give any recent example of players like that stayed in college through their junior seasons like Mikal Bridges that ended up becoming perennial all-stars? Seems weird to think a guy that is only 21 years old doesn't have much potential left, but it almost seems that way when most prospects leave after or two years in college at the most.

Kris Dunn is the only recent player I can think of that stayed in school 3 years or more and went top 5.

Stephen Curry
Damian Lillard
Steve Nash
Deron Williams

Hmmm…are there any good junior or senior point guards in this draft?
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1663 » by Leslie Forman » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:43 pm

Benedict Miller wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:
The argument would be, I imagine, that Carter is longer, the better passer, the better shooter, the better defender, his game translates better, he's more NBA ready, and upside wise he's not much of a downgrade in terms of age (still 18 himself) and athletically he's pretty good as well.

There's a fair argument for it, but like you, I'm not quite willing to go forego Bagley's pure upside, but that's based on the hope that Bagley turns in to a non-liability defensively, and his stroke and overall skill level offensively improves considerably over the next few years.


What is an NBA player comparison for Carter? Horford?



Definitely, Carter can be an all star if he wants to be...but there's something missing

Quickness. He is not as quick as Horford. Carter will have to purely be a 5 in the pros.

He is slower than Bagley but he is stronger and more skilled. He is kind of a tough prospect to gauge.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1664 » by Red Larrivee » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:49 pm

shakes0 wrote:in the first half of the season some of his teammates were actually showing up and making plays. James, Manek, McGusty, Odomes just to name a few. Around the start of the year every single one of them stopped making shots and plays. Also stopped guarding guys. At that point everyone keyed on Young and it was 1v5. I wouldn't judge him by how he played in the second half of the season when he was essentially all alone.

I watched most of OU's games, everyone that was on DTV.


Even when Oklahoma's role players were playing well it was the same style of play. Oklahoma really doesn't run anything complicated. It's either a high ball screen or Young just trying to blow by his man off the dribble. He's always had the ball at high volume. He's been playing alone all season.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1665 » by Axolotl » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:45 pm

GimmeDat wrote:
Axolotl wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:Here's an interesting hypothetical - say Trae Young falls to the 10-12 range, and say our Pelicans pick is in the 14-18 range. Let's say 18 for the sake of the example. Would you trade Portis to move up and take Young?


Right now, right here I would. For me it would essentially mean trading a proven, solid 6th man -type for a potential star.

I think Young's playmaking abilities should translate, and he is an obvious floor stretcher. Even with his questionable defence, that projects to an adequate 2nd unit PG at the minimum. With the upside being a winning impact player, I don't see us losing in this trade.


I'm on the fence, I think I would. His regression is a bit scary, I think at worst he's a good 2nd unit player, obviously he has star upside, he's one of the biggest variance picks in the draft. It's not a team need necessarily, but you gotta give it a crack at that point in the draft imo. I like Portis so it would be a big loss, but you're also avoiding the upcoming Portis contract as well.


Yeah, I'm on the fence too, that's why I said right now. I might feel differently next week... I've been wondering about his regression too. It could be that since he is head and shoulders above (not literally) of the other players in the team, the others just wait for him to do something, and the opponents homing in on him en masse.

To be honest, I haven't watched the team enough to make a definite statement on this, but somehow I feel the regression is not Young forgetting how to play basketball.

Unfortunately Dunn and Young can't co-exist at all though. Both guys need the ball in their hands. So that will probably turn in to an either/or situation. And of course Young/Lavine would be terrible defensively if that's the way it plays out. But purely trying to get the most value out of the draft as possible, it's an interesting outcome.


Young is obviously a poor fit. It would be benefical to have a couple of good defenders on the floor with him, and I think our bets defenders are Dunn and Nwaba. The problem then would be that neither of them is a very good scorer, and, as you said, Dunn is ball-hungry. He is versatile enough to play SF though, I think, especially if he improves his shooting.

Or, we would need to have a C who is a plus defender.

I agree on the fit with LaVine too. LaVine's defence has been improving, but it's still not on a good level. He handles 1 vs 1 pretty well with his quickness, but is overall still quite bad. Markkanen will probably be better next season, but still average.

With Young and LaVine on the floor together, we'd need a SF and C, who are +defenders. If Dunn would play SF/secondary playmaker, we'd be left with getting that +d C. It would still not be a defensively good unit, but at least Markkanen, Young and LaVine should bring enough firepower. And that C would need to be serviceable on the offence too.

All this said, I'm not too keen to play Dunn as a SF. I don't know how well it would work, and I definitely want to see what he does as a PG next season. There's also the question of would he want to play SF.

If we did draft Young, I'd put him in the 2nd unit first, to see what he does against NBA opponents. If he becomes as good as Dunn, we can choose the starter based on whether we need more offensive or defensive playstyle. In the end, the best PG in the team should start.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1666 » by Chi town » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:57 pm

GimmeDat wrote:How would you guys feel about this roster next season?

Dunn / Payne / Grant
Lavine / Valentine / Blakeney
Mik. Bridges / Nwaba
Markkanen / Portis / Vonleh
Lopez / M.Robinson

Because at it stands, that's probably what I'd aim to do with the picks if we stand still.

The one thing that's starting to become apparent to me is we have good depth but little in the way of top end talent. That's where the top 5 pick would come in handy. We should consolidate talent with some trade, I think. I like Nwaba and Portis and want to keep both long term. I would be shopping Valentine and Grant first up, and of course Lopez/Holiday as well. If a great offer was out there, Portis could/should be moved and Vonleh could be brought back as backup PF insurance, because he's looked solid.

In an ideal world, I'd try and trade Portis, Valentine along with whatever other bits and pieces we can get trading our other expendable pieces away and get Oubre from Washington. Then try and use both our picks to trade up and get a C like JJJ or Bamba.

Could have -

Dunn / Payne
Lavine / Blakeney
Oubre / Nwaba
Markkanen / Vonleh
Bamba / Felicio

We've stripped the depth a bit, but that's okay, because I think the starting 5 has a lot more upside. Plus most of the stripped depth gives a further opportunity to other young players.

I have no clue if Oubre is available, just an example, but I think we do need to be creative and look at all options, because roster A is well built and balanced but lacking in star talent, and roster B or something similar has more upside, and depth can always be filled out later, especially since we have cap space.

I think Portis is legit, but I'm a bit nervous about paying for him given he will always be behind Markkanen. I use Oubre as an example because he clearly fits a starting spot and fits the other pieces (which Mikal Bridges will also do should we simply keep the pick, but we won't have a star talent like Bamba, JJJ, Porter, etc.)

Some tough decisions to be made this off-season.


This is the exact scenario we need. This maximizes value money and window.

I just do not think Pax is going to trade Portis. Val or Grant I could see though.

I think we pick 6-9. I think Pels w their heavy schedule will miss the playoffs. AD can’t play 40mpg and back to backs and 4 in 5 nights and stay healthy or effective. So 13-14.

I wonder what the Pels pick and Portis or Val could get us? Pick one player on a rookie contract and trade for one about to get paid like Oubre but not Oubre.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1667 » by bigworld2017 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:03 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:How is Wendell Carter looking for #9?


If we pick 9th and Mikal is gone I think we'd have to go with Carter. I think his floor is being a respectable "5" who is easily capable of being a 15 & 10 player with adequate defensive presence. He won't be elite in anything, but he'll get the job done. And drafting him would allow us to move RoLo and perhaps another player and obtain an additional pick in next year's draft which is loaded with potentially elite wing players. Dunn has shown me enough so far this season to be willing to give him a full (hopefully healthy) year to see what he can bring. The kid has talent. It's up to Hoiberg and his staff to channel his talents in way that gets his teammates some open looks. So I don't want a small PG as my consolation prize in his draft. Draft Carter if he's the last legitimate big left and wait until next year to get a SF (or a PG if Dunn doesn't work out.)
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1668 » by Chi town » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:25 pm

bigworld2017 wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:How is Wendell Carter looking for #9?


If we pick 9th and Mikal is gone I think we'd have to go with Carter. I think his floor is being a respectable "5" who is easily capable of being a 15 & 10 player with adequate defensive presence. He won't be elite in anything, but he'll get the job done. And drafting him would allow us to move RoLo and perhaps another player and obtain an additional pick in next year's draft which is loaded with potentially elite wing players. Dunn has shown me enough so far this season to be willing to give him a full (hopefully healthy) year to see what he can bring. The kid has talent. It's up to Hoiberg and his staff to channel his talents in way that gets his teammates some open looks. So I don't want a small PG as my consolation prize in his draft. Draft Carter if he's the last legitimate big left and wait until next year to get a SF (or a PG if Dunn doesn't work out.)


Can Carter be a defensive rim protector? Can he defend PnR? Can he be Capela w a 3 ball or he is more of a RoLo w a 3 ball? Can he play next to Portis? Can he be the 5 of a Smallball unit?

I like Carter and think he has big time tools. Better post game than Lauri w the strength right now to use it. He said just hard to gauge because Bagley gets all the touches.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1669 » by realEAST » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:46 pm

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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1670 » by CoreyVillains » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:04 pm



They have Holiday going earlier than a lot of other sites. I'm kind of hoping he falls to us with the Pels pick.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1671 » by Dan Z » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:27 pm



Aren't the Bulls #8 right now?

I'd rather pick Mikal Bridges over Carter. I'm also not sure if I'd pass on Porter Jr. even though I'm not sold on him.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1672 » by Axolotl » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:33 pm

Dan Z wrote:


Aren't the Bulls #8 right now?

I'd rather pick Mikal Bridges over Carter. I'm also not sure if I'd pass on Porter Jr. even though I'm not sold on him.


Yeah, they project us to be at #6 at the time of the draft. I hope they got that right :D

I'd take Porter over Bridges or Carter, I think he has a star level ceiling, which I don't see in B or C.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1673 » by 3noD » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:34 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
I just do not understand how you can justifiably put Carter above Bagley. One guy is completely dominating the ACC as a freshman, has better measurable and WAY more potential. The other guy is Carter...who projects as solid at best.


The argument would be, I imagine, that Carter is longer, the better passer, the better shooter, the better defender, his game translates better, he's more NBA ready, and upside wise he's not much of a downgrade in terms of age (still 18 himself) and athletically he's pretty good as well.

There's a fair argument for it, but like you, I'm not quite willing to go forego Bagley's pure upside, but that's based on the hope that Bagley turns in to a non-liability defensively, and his stroke and overall skill level offensively improves considerably over the next few years.


What is an NBA player comparison for Carter? Horford?

Bobby Portis?


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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1674 » by Dan Z » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:37 pm

Axolotl wrote:
Dan Z wrote:


Aren't the Bulls #8 right now?

I'd rather pick Mikal Bridges over Carter. I'm also not sure if I'd pass on Porter Jr. even though I'm not sold on him.


Yeah, they project us to be at #6 at the time of the draft. I hope they got that right :D

I'd take Porter over Bridges or Carter, I think he has a star level ceiling, which I don't see in B or C.


If Porter is gone who do you take? Mikal? Carter? Other?
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1675 » by Axolotl » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:55 pm

Dan Z wrote:If Porter is gone who do you take? Mikal? Carter? Other?


MIkal or Carter, I haven't been able to really make up my mind on this. I've been leaning towards Carter though, the final tipper being that he is significantly younger than Mikal. Carter has also been kind of hidden behind Bagley.

I would also think hard about Trey Young, about whom there have been a couple of posts earlier in this thread.

But, when I think about picking Young with our first, it kinda feels like having bitten on a lemon. He is so hard to project. On one hand, passing him might prove to be a huge mistake - on the other hand, drafting him could prove to be a huge mistake...
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1676 » by biggestbullsfan » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:10 pm

What is the infatuation with Carter from the experts? I don't see him better than a lot of others in the top 10-14. But he is constantly around 7-10. Am I missing something? He looks at best to be a rotation player, but maybe that's what people are hoping for at bare minimum?
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1677 » by TheSuzerain » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:14 pm

biggestbullsfan wrote:What is the infatuation with Carter from the experts? I don't see him better than a lot of others in the top 10-14. But he is constantly around 7-10. Am I missing something? He looks at best to be a rotation player, but maybe that's what people are hoping for at bare minimum?

He's been extremely productive.

He's better than Bagley in some important ways: passing, shooting, standing reach, frame.

But I'd be very underwhelmed if he's who we end with. He plays perhaps the least important position and he has mediocre athleticism which limits his upside.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1678 » by RememberLu » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:17 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
biggestbullsfan wrote:What is the infatuation with Carter from the experts? I don't see him better than a lot of others in the top 10-14. But he is constantly around 7-10. Am I missing something? He looks at best to be a rotation player, but maybe that's what people are hoping for at bare minimum?

He's been extremely productive.

He's better than Bagley in some important ways: passing, shooting, standing reach, frame.

But I'd be very underwhelmed if he's who we end with. He plays perhaps the least important position and he has mediocre athleticism which limits his upside.


Would you pick Mikal over Wendell?
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1679 » by TheSuzerain » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:22 pm

RememberLu wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
biggestbullsfan wrote:What is the infatuation with Carter from the experts? I don't see him better than a lot of others in the top 10-14. But he is constantly around 7-10. Am I missing something? He looks at best to be a rotation player, but maybe that's what people are hoping for at bare minimum?

He's been extremely productive.

He's better than Bagley in some important ways: passing, shooting, standing reach, frame.

But I'd be very underwhelmed if he's who we end with. He plays perhaps the least important position and he has mediocre athleticism which limits his upside.


Would you pick Mikal over Wendell?

Yes.

And Trae over both.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread #6 

Post#1680 » by IcemanGervin » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:25 pm

I also want Trea Young just to see the anger on this board.(I also believe he will be a really good pro)

The Bulls are bad and are going to be bad for a long time it may as well be an entertaining ride.


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