DeAndre Ayton

[yoyoboy]

I really don't like players who are content with skating by on their natural abilities and doing the minimum. I'm not necessarily saying Ayton is that kind of guy yet, but there are a lot of players who have the talent to be so much more but they'd much rather be simply decent or good than have to spend so much time refining their skills (which means even the less exciting things like truly learning the defensive side of the ball, or how to put others in the best position to succeed, or even putting the work in in the weight room, which goes beyond just bulking up) and as a result becoming legitimately great. It's why the Spurs pay attention to personality. You've got so many guys who are drafted late and then go on to become stars, leaving people to later on believe it's just because their talent was overlooked. While that is sometimes true, a big part of it is due to all the work players like Butler and Kawhi put into improving themselves that players ahead of them weren't willing to do and that's something that's much harder to measure and less predictable before they hit the NBA.

When I look at Doncic, besides his skills, one of the biggest reasons why I feel like he's going to become an absolute superstar is because he has that fire and desire like few others to become great. He really wants to become one of the best to ever play the game and it's something you can sense as soon as you hear him talk or see him play. Those players are true leaders who can really turn around a franchise. Ayton's physical gifts are undeniable, but I'm not sure he'll ever be an average to above average defender and that's a huge, huge issue. I don't know if he'll ever show a consistent motor and passion on the court. Those are things you have to take into account.

[baldur]

I really don't like players who are content with skating by on their natural abilities and doing the minimum. I'm not necessarily saying Ayton is that kind of guy yet, but there are a lot of players who have the talent to be so much more but they'd much rather be simply decent or good than have to spend so much time refining their skills (which means even the less exciting things like truly learning the defensive side of the ball, or how to put others in the best position to succeed, or even putting the work in in the weight room, which goes beyond just bulking up) and as a result becoming legitimately great. It's why the Spurs pay attention to personality. You've got so many guys who are drafted late and then go on to become stars, leaving people to later on believe it's just because their talent was overlooked. While that is sometimes true, a big part of it is due to all the work players like Butler and Kawhi put into improving themselves that players ahead of them weren't willing to do and that's something that's much harder to measure and less predictable before they hit the NBA.

When I look at Doncic, besides his skills, one of the biggest reasons why I feel like he's going to become an absolute superstar is because he has that fire and desire like few others to become great. He really wants to become one of the best to ever play the game and it's something you can sense as soon as you hear him talk or see him play. Those players are true leaders who can really turn around a franchise. Ayton's physical gifts are undeniable, but I'm not sure he'll ever be an average to above average defender and that's a huge, huge issue. I don't know if he'll ever show a consistent motor and passion on the court. Those are things you have to take into account.

Couldn't agree more. You can see the passion and love in doncic's eyes for the game. And that passion and mentality will lead him to hardworking hence success.

[King Ken]

This is the reason I just can't put Ayton at the top of my board. I think he has the highest ceiling but man it's games like this scare me. He has too many of these games where he should be dominant but he ends up not being dominant. The biggest game of the year and he and his team just gets dominated by a team that had no business dominating them.

My draft board has remained fairly similar to what I had in Dec.

Bagley at 1 as a tier 1 prospect.
Ayton and Bamba as tier 2 prospects.
Doncic, JJJ, Porter Jr. as tier 3.
Carter Jr and the Bridges as tier 4.
The PG's (Young, Sexton, SGA) and Knox as tier 5.

People keep wanting to knock Bagley and praise Ayton but Ayton has critical flaws and my biggest issue is really his personality. I keep saying this, his interviews, mindset, and vision remind me of Marvin Williams. That's not a knock to Ayton personally as Marvin is a good guy but Marvin left a lot of the table. If only he had that drive. I said Wiggins as well but I think Marvin and Ayton are just better teammates and want to win. Wiggins is selfish as well with a bad mindset.

Bagley has the right mindset, drive, and vision. He has the best talent and while his skills are a WIP, his athletic ability is elite along with his motor. A lot of scouts overdo it. His wingspan isn't great, he's doesn't have a position, he's a tweener, but he tries to do it all and works to do it all. I think scouts are overdoing it.

While Ayton might be better than a 18-year-old Shaq, he doesn't have that same passion to win or knowledge of the center and understanding of the position as Shaq had when he left as a Junior. While Ayton has zero bust potential as he's a top 10 center right now in the NBA, I think his disappointment potential is sky high. I don't think this is as difficult. Bagley is the biggest no-brainer in this class.

if I had the top pick and had GM responsibilities; I would trade down to whomever wants Ayton. Bagley will be a producer at the next level FOR SURE. Ayton's motor runs hot and cold.

Where I differ from you is I think JJJ, as you call him, at one year younger is going to be the better prospect.

Watching JJJ play, I get the feeling that people are looking at fool's gold. His jumper won't work in the NBA unless he's wide open. Considering his position that's not bad but it limits him tremendously. On top of that, he's not the best functional athlete. He's more of in space athlete. That's fine too. His frame is not impressive if we are talking all-star potential. Of course, it's NBA ready but he's always going to lose on post defense at center and at PF, he's better suited but defensively, how many PF's have post game like that? It's not really needed at that position. I just see a player who's value would be the same in three to four years of college which would help but I don't see a future star. I see a very good role player. He doesn't have many limitations but he does have any tools that are elite and he's kind of a tweener between 4/5. Playing for an older team with a star like Bridges makes him look better than he is at this stage. He's going to be good and he will be able to play Day 1 but people will be suprised when he's not as good as they thought he was going to be.

[eminence]

Well that's certainly not going to move him into my top 10.

[doordoor123]

I don't think you can rate a player like him on one tournament game, especially while playing on a Sean Miller team. They look like this every year in the tournament.

However I do think you need good guard play to make a player like him reach his potential. Similar to the issues AD has had the past few years. Unfortunately in the lottery some teams are probably never going to actually provide that for him.

This.

He's the type of big that needs good guard play to bring out his potential. Tonight Arizona's guards got thoroughly outplayed and it directly affected Ayton's contributions.

That said, he also did an absolutely terrible job helping his guards out by fighting for position or contributing on the defensive end. He needs to realize that if he's no contributing offensively, he needs to buckle down on the other end and impact the game from that standpoint.

Disappointing game, but I don't think it should change his ranking much. We already knew he can have games like this...the issue is limiting them at the next level.

The thing is he’s been doing this stuff all year and the production is there in terms of numbers and occasionally he does well, but it’s also possible he’s doing well because it’s a good match up for him against some teams. My biggest issue with him is effort. He gives no effort whatsoever. I don’t think he’s out of shape on only really gives a **** scoring on offense, when half the time he’s taking jumpers. I really don’t think he’s worth taking over Jackson or Bamba. Say what you will about either of those players, but at least they try. Bamba might look likes he’s tired and slow at times, but he at least does the little things that matter or tries to.

[VCfor3]

I don't think you can rate a player like him on one tournament game, especially while playing on a Sean Miller team. They look like this every year in the tournament.

However I do think you need good guard play to make a player like him reach his potential. Similar to the issues AD has had the past few years. Unfortunately in the lottery some teams are probably never going to actually provide that for him.

This.

He's the type of big that needs good guard play to bring out his potential. Tonight Arizona's guards got thoroughly outplayed and it directly affected Ayton's contributions.

That said, he also did an absolutely terrible job helping his guards out by fighting for position or contributing on the defensive end. He needs to realize that if he's no contributing offensively, he needs to buckle down on the other end and impact the game from that standpoint.

Disappointing game, but I don't think it should change his ranking much. We already knew he can have games like this...the issue is limiting them at the next level.

The thing is he’s been doing this stuff all year and the production is there in terms of numbers and occasionally he does well, but it’s also possible he’s doing well because it’s a good match up for him against some teams. My biggest issue with him is effort. He gives no effort whatsoever. I don’t think he’s out of shape on only really gives a **** scoring on offense, when half the time he’s taking jumpers. I really don’t think he’s worth taking over Jackson or Bamba. Say what you will about either of those players, but at least they try. Bamba might look likes he’s tired and slow at times, but he at least does the little things that matter or tries to.

I agree. I feel pretty good saying Ayton has the highest ceiling this draft, but his on and off effort gives me zero confidence he will ever achieve it.

As for rating Ayton on one game, I saw it as him confirming some of my doubts where as if he had had a great game I would have seen it more as maybe he is turning the corner and can maintain the effort/motor to become a star in the NBA.

He moved from 1-2 to 2-3 for me so not a huge drop considering how tight the race is at the top of this draft.

[DirtyDez]

Sean Miller checked out before the season and nobody on the team plays a lick of defense. Ayton definitely showed enough for most of the year to stay in the top-3. No way this game changes that.

[Alatan]

So the excuse was that Ayton wasnt challenged enough to bother playing? What now ?

[Heej]

My draft board has remained fairly similar to what I had in Dec.

Bagley at 1 as a tier 1 prospect.
Ayton and Bamba as tier 2 prospects.
Doncic, JJJ, Porter Jr. as tier 3.
Carter Jr and the Bridges as tier 4.
The PG's (Young, Sexton, SGA) and Knox as tier 5.

People keep wanting to knock Bagley and praise Ayton but Ayton has critical flaws and my biggest issue is really his personality. I keep saying this, his interviews, mindset, and vision remind me of Marvin Williams. That's not a knock to Ayton personally as Marvin is a good guy but Marvin left a lot of the table. If only he had that drive. I said Wiggins as well but I think Marvin and Ayton are just better teammates and want to win. Wiggins is selfish as well with a bad mindset.

Bagley has the right mindset, drive, and vision. He has the best talent and while his skills are a WIP, his athletic ability is elite along with his motor. A lot of scouts overdo it. His wingspan isn't great, he's doesn't have a position, he's a tweener, but he tries to do it all and works to do it all. I think scouts are overdoing it.

While Ayton might be better than a 18-year-old Shaq, he doesn't have that same passion to win or knowledge of the center and understanding of the position as Shaq had when he left as a Junior. While Ayton has zero bust potential as he's a top 10 center right now in the NBA, I think his disappointment potential is sky high. I don't think this is as difficult. Bagley is the biggest no-brainer in this class.

if I had the top pick and had GM responsibilities; I would trade down to whomever wants Ayton. Bagley will be a producer at the next level FOR SURE. Ayton's motor runs hot and cold.

Where I differ from you is I think JJJ, as you call him, at one year younger is going to be the better prospect.

Watching JJJ play, I get the feeling that people are looking at fool's gold. His jumper won't work in the NBA unless he's wide open. Considering his position that's not bad but it limits him tremendously. On top of that, he's not the best functional athlete. He's more of in space athlete. That's fine too. His frame is not impressive if we are talking all-star potential. Of course, it's NBA ready but he's always going to lose on post defense at center and at PF, he's better suited but defensively, how many PF's have post game like that? It's not really needed at that position. I just see a player who's value would be the same in three to four years of college which would help but I don't see a future star. I see a very good role player. He doesn't have many limitations but he does have any tools that are elite and he's kind of a tweener between 4/5. Playing for an older team with a star like Bridges makes him look better than he is at this stage. He's going to be good and he will be able to play Day 1 but people will be suprised when he's not as good as they thought he was going to be.

My thing is he has flashes of a pump fake and drive game. Unfortunately he's a very suspect passer. If he turns into a guy that can pass out of the high post which is one of the trends right now in the NBA, and in spot up situations knock down open corner 3s and pump fake and drive above the break, all while providing his projected rim protection and switchability you're looking at a top 10 impactful center. Which is ludicrously high value in a league full of homogenized center play.

[916fan]

Well that's certainly not going to move him into my top 10.

what a joke to not have him in your top 10.

[Marcus]

started and finished the season being exactly what he was thought to be. A kid with ideal physical gifts for the league, tons of talent, but a hit or miss motor. When on there's not much doubt in him being number 1 when the motor is off you wonder if he may just end up a journeyman big with occasional flashes. I'm hoping he lands somewhere stable where the coaches push him to get the most out of his ability. He can be something really special if he can keep his pilot lit throughout his career.

That being said I can't see him falling past 3. I'd be surprised is he wasn't first off the board. If you get/keep his motor running and in a few years he's in the convo for best center in the league. Problem is that seems like a HUGE "if" right now, but I'm thinking its worth the risk for a lot of teams.

[SeattleJazzFan]

I just think its really hard for a big/thick true 5 who isn't much of a defender to have huge success in today's game. not saying he can't or they can't, but its just really hard. Embiid is doing it, but Ayton isn't the athlete Embiid and Embiid defends and hits the three. Ayton could develop a three point shot, but that's risky and I don't like his stroke much. Ayton also will never be close to the defender or rim protector Embiid is. Ayton is more a rich man's Jahlil than Embiid. I'd rather take my chances on others top 3, and I'd be hesitant to take him top 5.

[Ettorefm]

I get variety of opinions, but some things are just plain trying to sound cool.

You're not a 'peculiar professional scout' for having Ayton out of the top 7/8 or Bamba out of the Lottery. You're pretentious.

There is no single evidence to support such absurd claims

[Justwar]

My red flag regardless is he declared in the locker room. If he cared about the moment he would of waited. Look how devastated fox and monk was last year. Competitors do not act how ayton did in the locker room

[Ettorefm]

My red flag regardless is he declared in the locker room. If he cared about the moment he would of waited. Look how devastated fox and monk was last year. Competitors do not act how ayton did in the locker room

Simmons looked like he didn't care and yet he went #1 and is the best prospect we've seen in years.

"Fire'' is overrated. Also, how is Monk doing?

Let's stop overrating hustle and 'fire'. Ayton had this red flag from the first time I say him play in HS, let's not pretend this changes anything. Whoever picks him knows and have known for years about his Drummond-like attitude.

Still worth picking.

[Duke4life831]

started and finished the season being exactly what he was thought to be. A kid with ideal physical gifts for the league, tons of talent, but a hit or miss motor. When on there's not much doubt in him being number 1 when the motor is off you wonder if he may just end up a journeyman big with occasional flashes. I'm hoping he lands somewhere stable where the coaches push him to get the most out of his ability. He can be something really special if he can keep his pilot lit throughout his career.

That being said I can't see him falling past 3. I'd be surprised is he wasn't first off the board. If you get/keep his motor running and in a few years he's in the convo for best center in the league. Problem is that seems like a HUGE "if" right now, but I'm thinking its worth the risk for a lot of teams.

I'm with you 100%. Ayton with a high running motor is easily the #1 guy in this draft for me. But motor questions are usually pretty concerning to me and most times they never go away. Then looking at the All NBA teams from the past few years I'm seeing a bunch of guys with great motors. Drummond is the only guy in the last few years to make it that has had motor questions. Because of that, that is why I don't have him as my lock to go #1. His motor was hit and miss for the entire season and he just didn't bring it on the biggest game of the season against a team he should've easily dominated.

Now I don't have him dropping big time or anything like that, but I still have him neck and neck with Bamba as my #2 guy coming out of college. As of right now I have it

Bagley
Bamba
Ayton

But 2 and 3 can change tomorrow they're that close for me.

[Marcus]

My red flag regardless is he declared in the locker room. If he cared about the moment he would of waited. Look how devastated fox and monk was last year. Competitors do not act how ayton did in the locker room

I get what you mean but I'm not really rolling with the theory. It's overblown I think. The kid wants to be in the league and if the rules permitted it he would have done so already. If Ben Simmons had a chance to play tourney ball and had the same thing happen I'm sure he gives the same response. Same thing with Zo last year. Some of these kids have end game goals and treat college like the stepping stone it is. Whether a kid lives in the now or not doesn't really mean anything. We'll see how the he registers as a competitor when he hits the league.

Also wasn't Monk quoted this year as saying the NBA is boring? Those locker room tears spawned from his competiveness should have him working on his game instead of being bored right?

[DirtyDez]

So the excuse was that Ayton wasnt challenged enough to bother playing? What now ?

It’s not an excuse b/c Ayton had these issues in HS but 19 year olds need to be in good situations. Especially ones that haven’t played the game very long. He was never challenged in HS from ppl who followed his recruitment and Miller was completely out of it all year. It probably would’ve been beneficial to be treated like Cal did Cousins. If you make mistakes your ass will sit.

[Justwar]

Ayton beg to be recruited by ky, ky thought he wouldn't get cleared. One random day last summer he commits to Arizona.

[Justwar]

My red flag regardless is he declared in the locker room. If he cared about the moment he would of waited. Look how devastated fox and monk was last year. Competitors do not act how ayton did in the locker room

I get what you mean but I'm not really rolling with the theory. It's overblown I think. The kid wants to be in the league and if the rules permitted it he would have done so already. If Ben Simmons had a chance to play tourney ball and had the same thing happen I'm sure he gives the same response. Same thing with Zo last year. Some of these kids have end game goals and treat college like the stepping stone it is. Whether a kid lives in the now or not doesn't really mean anything. We'll see how the he registers as a competitor when he hits the league.

Also wasn't Monk quoted this year as saying the NBA is boring? Those locker room tears spawned from his competiveness should have him working on his game instead of being bored right?

He said the nba season is boring but it's good because he doesn't have to worry about partying and getting in trouble. But about Ben simmons his talent has never been a question. It's his passion to get better, work on his weaknesses, but quitting on your team is a prick move. Regardless of the situation. Simmons is still the same player he was in college. Good rebounder, transition scorer, gets to the basket when someone plays him close. But he does not shoot good from anywhere really.

Ayton needed a coach to force him to be humbled, play in a team concept, do the little things like dive for a loose ball. Always wondered if Miller had the ego to handle a true elite player. Sounds easier than it is but it requires confidence in a coach