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Dice K Plays Today

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Dice K Plays Today 

Post#1 » by F N 11 » Thu Apr 5, 2007 4:37 pm

Lets see whats all the hype about

If he doesnt shut down the Royals, he SUCKS

Go Yankees :clap:

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Post#2 » by xNewYorkMadex » Thu Apr 5, 2007 5:15 pm

Well if he pitches well then its only the Royals...

Come back to me when he pitches against the teams that have a good offensive lineup
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Post#3 » by jeff1624 » Thu Apr 5, 2007 5:21 pm

I say he gets tagged for 3 runs in 6 innings
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Post#4 » by NYKnSTILL! » Thu Apr 5, 2007 7:03 pm

so far 0 runs in 3 IP , David Dejesus the first hit off him.
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Post#5 » by F N 11 » Thu Apr 5, 2007 7:07 pm

wow so far so good
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Post#6 » by Jitpal » Thu Apr 5, 2007 9:33 pm

He pitched well but he allowed like 7-8 hits over 7 innings. Against a good offensive team those hits would be more in a lower inning amount plus a good offensive team would have strung a few of those together. So right now to me he seems like an average pitcher. Until I see him shut down a good offensive lineup he will remain average to me. -Jitpal
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Post#7 » by HCYanks » Thu Apr 5, 2007 9:48 pm

I only watched an inning or two, but his line was good:

7.0 IP, 10 K, 6 hits, 1 walk, 1 HR, 1 ER.

Outside of the solo HR, that's a very nice outing. Gave up a few hits, but hits are fluky anyway. The 10 K/1 walk line was pretty impressive. It's the Royals, but even still, you can't fault his performance that much.
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Post#8 » by Mr81 » Fri Apr 6, 2007 4:22 am

im so pissed the cubs didnt sign this guy . . . for some reason i hate the red soxs as much as u yankee fans do . . . but i think he will be MONEY for them . . .
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Post#9 » by BklynKING » Fri Apr 6, 2007 5:11 am

Why exactly weren't the Yankees interested in Dice K????.....I'm assuming they weren't willing enough to pay that much money.
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Post#10 » by HCYanks » Fri Apr 6, 2007 7:03 am

BklynKING wrote:Why exactly weren't the Yankees interested in Dice K????.....I'm assuming they weren't willing enough to pay that much money.


Paying Dice K wasn't so much the issue as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_system

Going into Free Agency, most people expected the winning posting bid for Matsuzaka to be no higher than 20-30 million. I can't remember the exact amount, but the Yankees' highest bid was in that range. The Red Sox blew everyone out of the water with a 50+ million winning bid. A few reasons why they could justify it:

1)The posting bid money doesn't add to payroll, meaning it's not a factor in the luxury tax.

2)The Red Sox as using Dice-K as a method to pull in new revenue from the Asian market (the Yankees wouldn't have been able to do this, or at least not to the same extent).

3)Matsuzaka (and Scott Boras) had very little leverage because of the setup of the posting system, so he ended up with a relatively modest contract.

4)He was probably the best SP option on the free agent market this year, which was obviously nuts.

When it comes down to it, the Red Sox were more willing to throw money around this offseason than the Yankees.
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Post#11 » by Jitpal » Fri Apr 6, 2007 12:39 pm

HCYanks wrote:
BklynKING wrote:Why exactly weren't the Yankees interested in Dice K????.....I'm assuming they weren't willing enough to pay that much money.


Paying Dice K wasn't so much the issue as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_system

Going into Free Agency, most people expected the winning posting bid for Matsuzaka to be no higher than 20-30 million. I can't remember the exact amount, but the Yankees' highest bid was in that range. The Red Sox blew everyone out of the water with a 50+ million winning bid. A few reasons why they could justify it:

1)The posting bid money doesn't add to payroll, meaning it's not a factor in the luxury tax.

2)The Red Sox as using Dice-K as a method to pull in new revenue from the Asian market (the Yankees wouldn't have been able to do this, or at least not to the same extent).

3)Matsuzaka (and Scott Boras) had very little leverage because of the setup of the posting system, so he ended up with a relatively modest contract.

4)He was probably the best SP option on the free agent market this year, which was obviously nuts.

When it comes down to it, the Red Sox were more willing to throw money around this offseason than the Yankees.

I think people were estimating that 30 million might be too much for posting him. There was a lot of speculation before hand that he might not even be worth it but that was maybe just to temper the hype. Yanks bid 32 million if I remember correctly. Mets did 38 and then the Red Sox with 51.1 million. I'm pretty sure those were the numbers. -Jitpal
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Post#12 » by Rondo_Fan » Fri Apr 6, 2007 1:03 pm

HCYanks wrote:
BklynKING wrote:Why exactly weren't the Yankees interested in Dice K????.....I'm assuming they weren't willing enough to pay that much money.


Paying Dice K wasn't so much the issue as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_system

Going into Free Agency, most people expected the winning posting bid for Matsuzaka to be no higher than 20-30 million. I can't remember the exact amount, but the Yankees' highest bid was in that range. The Red Sox blew everyone out of the water with a 50+ million winning bid. A few reasons why they could justify it:

1)The posting bid money doesn't add to payroll, meaning it's not a factor in the luxury tax.

2)The Red Sox as using Dice-K as a method to pull in new revenue from the Asian market (the Yankees wouldn't have been able to do this, or at least not to the same extent).

3)Matsuzaka (and Scott Boras) had very little leverage because of the setup of the posting system, so he ended up with a relatively modest contract.

4)He was probably the best SP option on the free agent market this year, which was obviously nuts.

When it comes down to it, the Red Sox were more willing to throw money around this offseason than the Yankees.


This is a good post. The reason that the Yankees wouldn't benefit from the Japanese market is that you're already in it. So the benefit to us was getting into the market in the first place.

I wouldn't go just by Daisuke's stat line in evaluating yesterday's game. He had an excellent mound presence and was clearly in control of the game. He looked confident, maybe a little cocky, but in a good way. He was just very sure of himself, but totally professional. The best comparison of him to pitchers that we know in my opinion is David Cone. He has lots of pitches, they all move, and he can spot the fastball, which gets up to 93, maybe a little more. Yes, the Boston papers are going overboard on him this morning, but he looked for real to me. Of course, you guys wore out Pedro so who knows.
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Post#13 » by Jitpal » Fri Apr 6, 2007 1:19 pm

Rondo_Fan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



This is a good post. The reason that the Yankees wouldn't benefit from the Japanese market is that you're already in it. So the benefit to us was getting into the market in the first place.

I wouldn't go just by Daisuke's stat line in evaluating yesterday's game. He had an excellent mound presence and was clearly in control of the game. He looked confident, maybe a little cocky, but in a good way. He was just very sure of himself, but totally professional. The best comparison of him to pitchers that we know in my opinion is David Cone. He has lots of pitches, they all move, and he can spot the fastball, which gets up to 93, maybe a little more. Yes, the Boston papers are going overboard on him this morning, but he looked for real to me. Of course, you guys wore out Pedro so who knows.

Let's also face the facts that the Royals aren't exactly known for their offensive prowess. In fact, they aren't known for much of anything except being one of the worst in the league. It is difficult to be impressed with that stat line because if he gives up 6 hits chances are there will be more than 1 run up on the board. Plus he would not go nearly as deep against a good lineup based on yesterday's performance(based off of gameday and boxscore). A real test for him will be against the Yankees and other good offensive lineups to see how he does. -Jitpal
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Post#14 » by Rondo_Fan » Fri Apr 6, 2007 1:26 pm

Jitpal wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Let's also face the facts that the Royals aren't exactly known for their offensive prowess. In fact, they aren't known for much of anything except being one of the worst in the league. It is difficult to be impressed with that stat line because if he gives up 6 hits chances are there will be more than 1 run up on the board. Plus he would not go nearly as deep against a good lineup based on yesterday's performance(based off of gameday and boxscore). A real test for him will be against the Yankees and other good offensive lineups to see how he does. -Jitpal

I agree, but I was just making the point that he showed a lot of poise on the mound. Don't forget, this guy was MVP of the World Baseball Championships and he has pitched in a lot of important games in Japan. My point was that apart from his stat line, he looks like an extremely confident, seasoned professional. I'm guessing that a lot of people didn't have a chance to see the game. David Ortiz (I think it was him) said after the game that he was in total control on the mound. That was my take too.

He'll have some bad games, and he'll lose a few, but he looks like he has what is takes to be a quality starter in the league. The Yankees will try to go deep in the count against him, which might work. But the guy does throw strikes. And he isn't predictable as to what the first pitch he throws will be. So that helps him get strike one. We'll see. Maybe I'll be singing a different tune in a month or two.
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Post#15 » by Jitpal » Fri Apr 6, 2007 1:46 pm

Rondo_Fan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


I agree, but I was just making the point that he showed a lot of poise on the mound. Don't forget, this guy was MVP of the World Baseball Championships and he has pitched in a lot of important games in Japan. My point was that apart from his stat line, he looks like an extremely confident, seasoned professional. I'm guessing that a lot of people didn't have a chance to see the game. David Ortiz (I think it was him) said after the game that he was in total control on the mound. That was my take too.

He'll have some bad games, and he'll lose a few, but he looks like he has what is takes to be a quality starter in the league. The Yankees will try to go deep in the count against him, which might work. But the guy does throw strikes. And he isn't predictable as to what the first pitch he throws will be. So that helps him get strike one. We'll see. Maybe I'll be singing a different tune in a month or two.

I didn't see the game. I said that I was basing a lot of what I said off of the box score and a some gameday I was following. I wouldn't trust WBC stuff because it's almost a proven fact that hitters will not hit well off of pitchers they have never seen or rarely seen(there are exceptions). Couple that with the tendancy that a lot of pitchers from that side of the world have a deceptive delivery which helps a lot of early success. I'm not saying the kid is a failure it is one game. One game does not a failure make. I'm just saying, from my perspective as a Yankee fan, that I am not yet a believer. However, what I have seen is mostly positive but the big detractors being that it is still only one game and that it was the Royals. -Jitpal
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Post#16 » by Rondo_Fan » Fri Apr 6, 2007 2:02 pm

Jitpal wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


I didn't see the game. I said that I was basing a lot of what I said off of the box score and a some gameday I was following. I wouldn't trust WBC stuff because it's almost a proven fact that hitters will not hit well off of pitchers they have never seen or rarely seen(there are exceptions). Couple that with the tendancy that a lot of pitchers from that side of the world have a deceptive delivery which helps a lot of early success. I'm not saying the kid is a failure it is one game. One game does not a failure make. I'm just saying, from my perspective as a Yankee fan, that I am not yet a believer. However, what I have seen is mostly positive but the big detractors being that it is still only one game and that it was the Royals. -Jitpal

How could you possibly say he was a failure? He gave up one run on six hits over seven innings, striking out 10, and giving up 1 walk. If that's a failure, then I want 5 failures as my starters, please.

His delivery is deceptive in that he has that hesitation thing that a lot of the Japanese pitchers have, but he slightly varies the length of the delay in the hesitation. So he is not only mixing up speeds on his pitches, but also he is mixing up when he releases the ball. He looks like he's basically a master junkballer, with a 93-mph fastball that he can spot. It could be a great combination.

Also, I don't see the six hits as a big deal. I mean, isn't getting out of jams part of what a pitcher's supposed to do? He had two double-plays yesterday that bailed him out of trouble, and if they went the other way, then he would have gotten touched for a couple of more runs. That's bound to happen to him over the course of the season. But for now at least, you have to give him credit for doing what he's supposed to do as a pitcher.
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Post#17 » by The Rondo Show » Fri Apr 6, 2007 4:51 pm

Rondo_Fan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Also, I don't see the six hits as a big deal. I mean, isn't getting out of jams part of what a pitcher's supposed to do? He had two double-plays yesterday that bailed him out of trouble, and if they went the other way, then he would have gotten touched for a couple of more runs. That's bound to happen to him over the course of the season. But for now at least, you have to give him credit for doing what he's supposed to do as a pitcher.
Not to mention, 2 of the 6 hits were broken bat bloopers (including Alex Gordon's 1st MLB hit).

If you (jitpal) are basing it off the box score and not watching him pitch, I don't see how you could be anything but extremely impressed. He gave up 6 hits in 7 innings, a .240 opponents batting average, that is very good even vs. the KC Royals-- especially when you only walk one guy.

He had a great start, of course it doesn't mean he is going to be an ace or stud pitcher but you don't need to downplay how good he was and say "looking at the box score it seems like he is an average pitcher because the Royals aren't a good team and he allowed 7-8 hits (which was wrong, BTW. it was 6 in 7 innings) in 7 innings".

Besides, with some of the ridiculous off-speed stuff he was throwing and the way he was spotting his fastball I don't think too many teams could do anything with how he was throwing yesterday.
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Post#18 » by SugeKnight718 » Fri Apr 6, 2007 8:58 pm

I'm not going to go all crazy about when Dice-K did because it was against the Royals. Can anybody name their RF right now, off the top of the head, NO. So lets just wait before anybody gets scared of this guy, he hasn't done ANYTHING yet fellas.

Not trying to diss the Royals, but Dice-K hasn't proved anything yet, atleast to me.
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Post#19 » by JohnnyK » Fri Apr 6, 2007 9:49 pm

SugeKnight718 wrote:Can anybody name their RF right now, off the top of the head, NO.


Mark Teahan. :P (Although I only know that because so much was written about his switch from 3B to make room for Alex Gordon).
But yeah, I get your point.

Still, Dice did look like a fine pitcher, although I don't agree with many writers who were praising him mixing it up so much - I actually though he relied heavily on his fastball, but his location there was perfect, so it's understandable.

I just hope someone ups Manny's salute after Dice left the game to youtube, that was the funniest moment of the evening - think karate-chop bow.

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