Luka Doncic Part III

[Nikson]

And when he becomes an average role player like I've been saying all along, I expect you, Bob, Nikson, and Mirotic to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong.

I'll do the same if he becomes a superstar or even makes 1 All NBA Team

I argued against people who said ignorant things about Euro ball, and I argued with people who said he surefire superstar. I am not trying to convince you he is surefire superstar, I just trying to show you that your reasoning is absurd. I dont see how you can be proud you were right if he busts, because you never put actual effort or made a good argument why would he bust in your opinion. Your argument is straight up - he is Euro, so he cant be superstar. Thats just being ignorant.

it's not ignorance, it's not racist, it's HISTORY. It's been proven time and time again, guard play overseas does not translate to NBA stardom. It's not a euro thing when guys like Dirk Giannis Sabonis Jokic etc are doing or have done it. But their perimeter counterparts cannot, and I'm not going to jump on a hype train and believe we are now all of a sudden seeing the mold breaker.

COuld it happen? Sure, like i said before never has a #16 seed beaten a #1 and we got it, but just like I didnt pick UMBC over UVA, I'm not picking Doncic to reach superstardon. People sue the argument they pick #1 over #16 because it's never been done before prior to Friday, that's what I'm doing here.

That exactly and one more reason are reasons why you are wrong. You have just answered yourself, see.
As you was at UMBC : UVA.

[clyde21]

Drafted in 2009 and this "may" be the first time he ever reaches the postseason. And much of that is due to Mitchell & Gobert. No I think he's rated exactly as he plays. Not to mention, the team he left that couldn't sniff the playoffs is now also vying for a spot. No one is saying he sucks, but he's just another guy

Someone made this point already, but Rubio translated as people thought he would. Good defender and passer, but limited offensively and from a shooting standpoint. At the time he was drafted though, no one knew that the NBA today would emphasizes perimeter shooting as much as it has, which kind of limits Rubio's overall impact.

But he didn't bust. In fact, he became exactly what most people thought he would become.

Your other examples are also lacking. Dante Exum has been marred by injuries. It doesn't really have anything to do with what he can or can't do in the NBA. He just hasn't been able to stay healthy long enough to progress and develop. Dennis Schroeder I'd say has surpassed a lot of expectations at this point, and Frank Ntiilkina already looks like he's going to be a defensive stud in this league.

Mario Hezonja is the only one that has outright busted...but that could very much to do with the crap franchise that is the Magic than anything else. Look at what guys like Harris and Oladipo have done since leaving that team. I have a feeling had he been drafted by the Spurs we'd be talking about a different Mario Hezonja, but hey.

I disagree, the hype around Rubio was absurd, it's in line with the hype we keep hearing about Doncic now. They guy was compared to Jason Kidd, he can't take Kidd's under garments to the dry cleaners.

Exum's inability to stay healthy should be counted against him, he's a grown man athlete, his injuries are not just some sheer bad luck, he also has to be accountable for his conditioning and ability to stay on the floor. he's flat out sucked in his limited time playing. Shroeder is fine for where he was picked, I can agree with that, but he is by no means a top PG. And the verdict will be out on Frank, I think he has much more bust potential than star potential, especially considering players drafted after him.

While the Orl argument carries some weight, Harris was palying really well in Mil prior to going to orl and Dipo didn't do much in his 1 year in OKC, so those examples are not exactly painting the correct picture IMHO.

Your test cases have huge holes in them, and almost none of them apply to Luka Doncic.

[daoneandonly]

I argued against people who said ignorant things about Euro ball, and I argued with people who said he surefire superstar. I am not trying to convince you he is surefire superstar, I just trying to show you that your reasoning is absurd. I dont see how you can be proud you were right if he busts, because you never put actual effort or made a good argument why would he bust in your opinion. Your argument is straight up - he is Euro, so he cant be superstar. Thats just being ignorant.

it's not ignorance, it's not racist, it's HISTORY. It's been proven time and time again, guard play overseas does not translate to NBA stardom. It's not a euro thing when guys like Dirk Giannis Sabonis Jokic etc are doing or have done it. But their perimeter counterparts cannot, and I'm not going to jump on a hype train and believe we are now all of a sudden seeing the mold breaker.

COuld it happen? Sure, like i said before never has a #16 seed beaten a #1 and we got it, but just like I didnt pick UMBC over UVA, I'm not picking Doncic to reach superstardon. People sue the argument they pick #1 over #16 because it's never been done before prior to Friday, that's what I'm doing here.

That exactly and one more reason are reasons why you are wrong. You just answer yourself, see.

And it's more likely you are wrong, just as #16 seeds are 1-135 against #1 seeds, there's a 1 in 136 chance or so that Doncic lives up to his hype

[Nikson]

Who actually won? 1# or 16#?

[daoneandonly]

Who actually won? 1# or 16#?

SInce the NCAA bracket inception, 135 #1's won and 1 #16 won. So yeah, anything could happen, but its as likely as 1 in every 136 times, so I'm not putting money on Doncic succeeding as in this case those other #16's are all the guys I've mentioned at nausea.

[BoardCrusher]

And when he becomes an average role player like I've been saying all along, I expect you, Bob, Nikson, and Mirotic to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong.

I'll do the same if he becomes a superstar or even makes 1 All NBA Team

this guy sounds more and more like the troll pacersgm, time to block some spam

[daoneandonly]

And when he becomes an average role player like I've been saying all along, I expect you, Bob, Nikson, and Mirotic to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong.

I'll do the same if he becomes a superstar or even makes 1 All NBA Team

this guy sounds more and more like the troll pacersgm, time to block some spam

Go for it, just looking at your profile all you comment on is anything Euroball or Slovenia, so clearly you have a bias. I just go by pure historical evidence, Euro/Eastern Hemisphere guards never amount to superstars, like ever.

[BoardCrusher]

And when he becomes an average role player like I've been saying all along, I expect you, Bob, Nikson, and Mirotic to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong.

I'll do the same if he becomes a superstar or even makes 1 All NBA Team

this guy sounds more and more like the troll pacersgm, time to block some spam

Go for it, just looking at your profile all you comment on is anything Euroball or Slovenia, so clearly you have a bias. I just go by pure historical evidence, Euro/Eastern Hemisphere guards never amount to superstars, like ever.

and you dare to talk to me about bias? lol?

[daoneandonly]

this guy sounds more and more like the troll pacersgm, time to block some spam

Go for it, just looking at your profile all you comment on is anything Euroball or Slovenia, so clearly you have a bias. I just go by pure historical evidence, Euro/Eastern Hemisphere guards never amount to superstars, like ever.

and you dare to talk to me about bais? lol?

It is not a bias if it's true. If it were biased, Dirk Nowitzki would not be my favorite player of all time. I wouldn't pick Giannis as the one guy in the NBA I'd build my team around if I had a #1 pick of all NBA players, because those guys have proven they can hang in the NBA and succeed. For the millionth time, no guard from that part of the world has yet as of march 2018.

[BoardCrusher]

Go for it, just looking at your profile all you comment on is anything Euroball or Slovenia, so clearly you have a bias. I just go by pure historical evidence, Euro/Eastern Hemisphere guards never amount to superstars, like ever.

and you dare to talk to me about bais? lol?

It is not a bias if it's true. If it were biased, Dirk Nowitzki would not be my favorite player of all time. I wouldn't pick Giannis as the one guy in the NBA I'd build my team around if I had a #1 pick of all NBA players, because those guys have proven they can hang in the NBA and succeed. For the millionth time, no guard from that part of the world has yet as of march 2018.

so cause no one has ever done it before, it means it is not possible?

[daoneandonly]

and you dare to talk to me about bais? lol?

It is not a bias if it's true. If it were biased, Dirk Nowitzki would not be my favorite player of all time. I wouldn't pick Giannis as the one guy in the NBA I'd build my team around if I had a #1 pick of all NBA players, because those guys have proven they can hang in the NBA and succeed. For the millionth time, no guard from that part of the world has yet as of march 2018.

so cause no one has ever done it before, it means it is not possible?

Not that it is not possible, anything in this world is. But it makes you think it's less likely dont you think? Can't you understand the skepticism seeing how no one else from that league has reached MVP/superstar level heights in the NBA like Doncic is hyped up to be?

I don't know if you followed my many rants, but I never said he was going to suck. i said he would be like a Joe Ingles, which is a fine player, but because of how much he is being hyped, would be considered a bust.

[SportsGuy8]

Every time someone uses Hezonja & Rubio as an argument why Doncic won't become a star, that person loses that and all future arguments BY DEFAULT, based on sheer ignorance (and ignorance is the mildest word possible here).

Rubio & Hezonja averaged 6 PPG in Europe for **** sake in very similar situations as Doncic, while being older.

[Nikson]

Predictions based on many parameters are for smart people. One should proces many many informations.
If you take only parameter about Earth hemisphere and then narrow the field of options to guard of hight 203 cm, your prediction look's smart. Parameters are all wrong. But if you try hard and get lucky...you might turn out victorious. By this alone he should not be a guard at all.

In a history 203 cm players were C's. I don't see Luka as a C. Neither was EMJ a C. But he played one of his best games on C position. Never happened before.

[BoardCrusher]

It is not a bias if it's true. If it were biased, Dirk Nowitzki would not be my favorite player of all time. I wouldn't pick Giannis as the one guy in the NBA I'd build my team around if I had a #1 pick of all NBA players, because those guys have proven they can hang in the NBA and succeed. For the millionth time, no guard from that part of the world has yet as of march 2018.

so cause no one has ever done it before, it means it is not possible?

Not that it is not possible, anything in this world is. But it makes you think it's less likely dont you think? Can't you understand the skepticism seeing how no one else from that league has reached MVP/superstar level heights in the NBA like Doncic is hyped up to be?

I don't know if you followed my many rants, but I never said he was going to suck. i said he would be like a Joe Ingles, which is a fine player, but because of how much he is being hyped, would be considered a bust.

Joe Ingles is his lowest floor possible, but you are entitled to your own opinion ofc.

[Rn5ho]

Geez guys, again.. please stop feeding him. We wasted last 10-15 pages arguing his historic facts. Just give up.. it's not worth the time.

Guys, stop feeding the troll.. seriously. This topic is getting ridiculous again. He believes NCAA > Euroleague, that's enough of a sign that there's no point discussing as beliefs on each side are so far apart, it's like trying to convince Trump that wall makes no sense.

[mabundo_nagumbe]

so cause no one has ever done it before, it means it is not possible?

Not that it is not possible, anything in this world is. But it makes you think it's less likely dont you think? Can't you understand the skepticism seeing how no one else from that league has reached MVP/superstar level heights in the NBA like Doncic is hyped up to be?

I don't know if you followed my many rants, but I never said he was going to suck. i said he would be like a Joe Ingles, which is a fine player, but because of how much he is being hyped, would be considered a bust.

Joe Ingles is his lowest floor possible, but you are entitled to your own opinion ofc.

In my opininon, what daoneandonly is saying is not even an opinion (it is a super boring fact), because he never actually argumented anything. His only notion is, that he will not be a superstar, because of a statistical improbability. But superstars are superstars exactly because there is such a low probability that someone will be so much better than other players, and only when they achieve this status, they are called superstars. He never gets beyond (or around) this fact (this is what makes the word superstar meaningful) , that it is unlikley for this to happen. And it is totaly meaningles to argue about this whole probability thing. You guys are really feeding a troll. He never argued about what he thinks are his serious limitations AND HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THIS IS TRUE (the best eample of this would be that guy who watched him in fenerbahce and made an analysis of olympiacos games, i think it's Lavta or something like that).
he only tells us, what is true in EVERY THING THAT CONCERNS FUTURE when it concerns humans, i.e. that it is statisticaly unlikley that he will be above average. But we all know that, so why even argue with him, it's pointless.

[Rn5ho]

Let's instead discuss this video compilation that was posted today..

Watch on YouTube

A lot of old stuff, some new, some less exposed.

[peja_the_legend]

The hype is ridiculous, any way you slcie it. There have rarely been guys who excelled in the NCAA that have been so hyped up. Yet, many years there have been that superstar guard to come out of an NCAA team. Never once has their been any guard from euroleague who can say the same. I go with history, not first time revelations.

I totally agree with everything you write.Just that i dont think that he'll be like Ingles.He'll be better.I've always compared him to Gallinari and Turkoglu.Better than Ingles but in no way a superstar.Doncic will never be a Harden,a Westbrook,a Durant,a Davis.No way.

It's an interesting phenomenon what drives Doncic' hype.I think american draft experts want to outsmart themselves and show the typical ignorant american fan that they can scout players outside their comfort zone.Exotic european players always attract american draft nerds,that's how the likes of Korolev and Tsikitsvili and Vesely became lottery picks.Add to this the fact that Doncic actually produces in euroleague and boom you got "the best nba draft prospect EVER (no joke,some american expert called Demakis wrote exactly this).

The problem is all those experts fail to realise the huuuge gap between NBA and euroleague and that posting historic numbers as a teenage in euroleague doesnt necesarilly mean a lot.You know who was euroleagues final 4 mvp last season?Ekpe Udoh.He was a dominating beast in Euroleague.Now he doesnt even play in Utah Jazz.Teodosic,a superstar in europe is having a so-so season with Clippers.The best transition has been this of Bogdan Bogdanovic,who i think is a fine player(actually i like him more than Doncic) but he will be nothign more that a solid starter in the league.I could go further mentioning names like Malcolm Delaney(superstar in Euroleague,towel waver in Hawks),Sergio Rodrigues,Nick Calathes(a top 3 candidate for euroleague mvp!!)

[Nikson]

The hype is ridiculous, any way you slcie it. There have rarely been guys who excelled in the NCAA that have been so hyped up. Yet, many years there have been that superstar guard to come out of an NCAA team. Never once has their been any guard from euroleague who can say the same. I go with history, not first time revelations.

I totally agree with everything you write.Just that i dont think that he'll be like Ingles.He'll be better.I've always compared him to Gallinari and Turkoglu.Better than Ingles but in no way a superstar.Doncic will never be a Harden,a Westbrook,a Durant,a Davis.No way.

It's an interesting phenomenon what drives Doncic' hype.I think american draft experts want to outsmart themselves and show the typical ignorant american fan that they can scout players outside their comfort zone.Exotic european players always attract american draft nerds,that's how the likes of Korolev and Tsikitsvili and Vesely became lottery picks.Add to this the fact that Doncic actually produces in euroleague and boom you got "the best nba draft prospect EVER (no joke,some american expert called Demakis wrote exactly this).

The problem is all those experts fail to realise the huuuge gap between NBA and euroleague and that posting historic numbers as a teenage in euroleague doesnt necesarilly mean a lot.You know who was euroleagues final 4 mvp last season?Ekpe Udoh.He was a dominating beast in Euroleague.Now he doesnt even play in Utah Jazz.Teodosic,a superstar in europe is having a so-so season with Clippers.The best transition has been this of Bogdan Bogdanovic,who i think is a fine player(actually i like him more than Doncic) but he will be nothign more that a solid starter in the league.I could go further mentioning names like Malcolm Delaney(superstar in Euroleague,towel waver in Hawks),Sergio Rodrigues,Nick Calathes(a top 3 candidate for euroleague mvp!!)

Who would you compare to that was playing in Eurleague at 17-18-19 years old?

[peja_the_legend]

well Bodiroga was superstar in euroleague as a teenager as well.Never even attempted to play in NBA.Peja was a prolific euroleague scorer from age 19 as well.