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ESPN Article - Drummond looking forward to building "Empire" together with Griffin

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ImHeisenberg
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Re: ESPN Article - Drummond looking forward to building "Empire" together with Griffin 

Post#21 » by ImHeisenberg » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:17 pm

mercury wrote:I'm not in a big hurry to deal Dre... if any of his skills improve (mid-range, average post game) it could be another regrettable trade. It's fair to say that he should be further along by now... but is he really done improving?
The mystery... is he a late bloomer or tapped out potential?... would like to wait at least one more year. I see his trade value improving within the next couple of years.

I'm with you. As critical as I've been of Drummond, he's shown that he can be a beast. With the Blake trade, they've put him right back in a situation he was in with Monroe. A terrible fit that marginalizes his impact.

Guys like Zach Lowe are mentioning that moving Drummond is the only way to try and add some wing depth to this team, considering nobody will want Blake or Reggie, and basically nobody else has any trade value here beyond Drummond.

But, trading Drummond isn't going to fix this team. You aren't getting an all star caliber wing in return. The market is set to be flooded with big men this summer, as well as the draft. The market would be very thin for Drummond. And, if he were moved for a couple league average players, the team will still suck.

The only way out of this mess is time, and/or some incredible dumb luck. And, historically, the only luck Detroit's had the last decade is bad luck.
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Re: ESPN Article - Drummond looking forward to building "Empire" together with Griffin 

Post#22 » by Laimbeer » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:52 pm

I'd rather he feel this way instead of telling the media he's unhappy in the current situation.

I think Dre is more comfortable in a Robin role and Blake as Batman, so from that standpoint it works.
Comments to rationalize bad contracts -
1) It's less than the MLE
2) He can be traded later
3) It's only __% of the cap
4) The cap is going up
5) It's only __ years
6) He's a good mentor/locker room guy
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Re: ESPN Article - Drummond looking forward to building "Empire" together with Griffin 

Post#23 » by Crymson » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:19 am

ImHeisenberg wrote:I'm with you. As critical as I've been of Drummond, he's shown that he can be a beast. With the Blake trade, they've put him right back in a situation he was in with Monroe. A terrible fit that marginalizes his impact.


Exactly! Except even worse, because Griffin is far more ball-dominant than Monroe was. It baffles me that so many don't recognize this as a problem.

Guys like Zach Lowe are mentioning that moving Drummond is the only way to try and add some wing depth to this team, considering nobody will want Blake or Reggie, and basically nobody else has any trade value here beyond Drummond.

But, trading Drummond isn't going to fix this team. You aren't getting an all star caliber wing in return. The market is set to be flooded with big men this summer, as well as the draft. The market would be very thin for Drummond. And, if he were moved for a couple league average players, the team will still suck.


Likewise well said. We'd need to sell him for pennies on the dollar. And come 2019 offseason, he'll have only a single season remaining before his player contract. Not that teams are hot on trading a great deal for a center these days anyway; when was the last time that happened?

The only way out of this mess is time, and/or some incredible dumb luck. And, historically, the only luck Detroit's had the last decade is bad luck.


True.
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Re: ESPN Article - Drummond looking forward to building "Empire" together with Griffin 

Post#24 » by ImHeisenberg » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:02 pm

Laimbeer wrote:I'd rather he feel this way instead of telling the media he's unhappy in the current situation.

I think Dre is more comfortable in a Robin role and Blake as Batman, so from that standpoint it works.


I'm with you on the idea that Drummond shouldn't be your "batman" of a team that's going for any type of playoff run. He's simply not skilled enough to be your top alpha.

If we're talking title contender, Drummond should be your over qualified third banana. Blake is skilled, but he should be playing center full time in the current NBA. The fit with Drummond is going to continuously be a problem. Even if Blake continues to improve his 3 point shooting, just having him play Kevin Love, standing in the corner and waiting for the ball isn't utilizing his skill set, as he's a dominant presence around the rim. It's just a terrible fit.

The Pistons (whomever is running this team after the season) should do everything they can to put elite shooting around those two. Let's be honest, they aren't blowing the team up. Bullock and Kennard should be your starting wings, and see if there's anyway we can upgrade the PG position via trades. RJ is better than Ish, but he's still a league average shooter when healthy. We want elite shooting, or at least better than league average.

Plus, I hate watching RJ dribble the air out of the ball hunting for his own shot. Focus on shooting, and go Point Blake, with Griff running a lot of the offense. That's my only "quick fix" idea that lies within the realm of possibility.

Or, get lucky, win the lottery, draft Ayton and go nuts.
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Re: ESPN Article - Drummond looking forward to building "Empire" together with Griffin 

Post#25 » by Canadafan » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:14 pm

Does Leuer+SJ+Ellenson get you Fournier? It works cap wise
Does Galloway+Leuer+lottery protected 1st get us Fournier?
Does Ish+Galloway+SJ+Ellenson get you Fournier?

He would be such a nice fit. Between him, Bullock and Luke we'd have some real shooters.
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Re: ESPN Article - Drummond looking forward to building "Empire" together with Griffin 

Post#26 » by Crymson » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:01 pm

Canadafan wrote:Does Leuer+SJ+Ellenson get you Fournier? It works cap wise
Does Galloway+Leuer+lottery protected 1st get us Fournier?
Does Ish+Galloway+SJ+Ellenson get you Fournier?


No to all three. The Magic aren't so desperate to get rid of him that they'd toss him away for nothing, let alone for negative-value contracts like those of Leuer and Galloway.
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Re: ESPN Article - Drummond looking forward to building "Empire" together with Griffin 

Post#27 » by Joe Berry » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:09 pm

Crymson wrote:
Canadafan wrote:Does Leuer+SJ+Ellenson get you Fournier? It works cap wise
Does Galloway+Leuer+lottery protected 1st get us Fournier?
Does Ish+Galloway+SJ+Ellenson get you Fournier?


No to all three. The Magic aren't so desperate to get rid of him that they'd toss him away for nothing, let alone for negative-value contracts like those of Leuer and Galloway.
[/quote]

Fournier could be one realistic target, i would trade SJ and/or Ellenson but doubt thats enough to get him. Leuers and Galloways contracts are just too ugly, two of the most overpaid bench players in the league, no reason for the Magic to trade a starter for those guys.

ImHeisenberg wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:The Pistons (whomever is running this team after the season) should do everything they can to put elite shooting around those two. Let's be honest, they aren't blowing the team up. Bullock and Kennard should be your starting wings, and see if there's anyway we can upgrade the PG position via trades. RJ is better than Ish, but he's still a league average shooter when healthy. We want elite shooting, or at least better than league average.


Any team in the league wants 'elite shooting'. Unlike the Pistons other teams have assets to trade and have not tied up 3/4 of the capspace in bigman when the league is dominated by wings and guards. Upgrading the wings and PG will be incredibly hard. Bullock will be gone 2019 if he continues to play like this. The Pistons will be in luxury tax hell if they spend the MLE this offseason.
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Re: ESPN Article - Drummond looking forward to building "Empire" together with Griffin 

Post#28 » by Canadafan » Sun Apr 1, 2018 1:29 pm

The Pistons will be in luxury tax hell if they spend the MLE this offseason.

So what is our situation? I know its ****. How much space do we have this summer under the luxury tax threshold?
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Re: ESPN Article - Drummond looking forward to building "Empire" together with Griffin 

Post#29 » by ImHeisenberg » Sun Apr 1, 2018 2:37 pm

Joe Berry wrote:Any team in the league wants 'elite shooting'. Unlike the Pistons other teams have assets to trade and have not tied up 3/4 of the capspace in bigman when the league is dominated by wings and guards. Upgrading the wings and PG will be incredibly hard. Bullock will be gone 2019 if he continues to play like this. The Pistons will be in luxury tax hell if they spend the MLE this offseason.


I am well aware. It's very unlikely this team goes anywhere in the next 3 to 5 years. Unless you're one of those plebs who gets excited over getting the 8th seed and embarrassed over the duration of four games.

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