Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter?

Moderator: bwgood77

jrob23
Starter
Posts: 2,112
And1: 791
Joined: Jul 08, 2016

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#21 » by jrob23 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:38 am

He's a great recruiter and that actually hinders him as a coach. It hurts him because he gets some of the top talent but he only gets about 7 months to even work with them. Because he gets so many great/top recruits he loses out on the next tier of guys because they want playing time and he can't give it to them. So his teams end up being filled out with mostly average or extremely raw players after those top 1 and dones. How is he supposed to coach kids up? Plus, these top recruits are used to doing things their own ways and aren't as receptive to coaching in lots of cases. The one time Calipari had recruits (not top though) and years together with them was at Umass. Being from Western MA that time was magical for me and my friends. But they didn't win and he got severely outcoached in both those elimination games. After all is said and done, he has gotten arguably the best players for most of his career and has what? One championship? imo if he was half the coach he is a recruiter he'd have more titles despite whatever defense he can receive because of the one and done dynamic he helped create.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 58,267
And1: 32,061
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#22 » by bwgood77 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:10 pm

Read on Twitter
DubCeeSwag
Ballboy
Posts: 47
And1: 11
Joined: Oct 27, 2015
Location: Glendale, CA
     

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#23 » by DubCeeSwag » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:38 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:If Cal was getting just solid recruiting classes, he wouldn't be talked about as an elite coach which is why I think a NBA team paying big bucks for him would be a huge mistake.


He might catch an owner's eye or something, but there's not a market for his "talents" in the NBA. Donovan and Hoiberg were considered good coaches in college, and they're getting exposed for their lack of X's and O's. Neither are good coaches, but both are better than Calipari.

They've all embraced analytics fairly recently but none are true analytics coaches. Of the 3 FH has the best chance to be "that" kind of coach.

Of the 3 coaches listed Hoiberg is probably the brightest. Even still he's barely above average. I doubt very much Cal could do simple algebra, and Donovan isn't much brighter if he is at all. IIRC Hoiberg did his own analytics, while the other two had to hire assistants that could actually do HS level math. I've also heard Cal doesn't listen to his.

The used car salesman trait that both BD and JC share does them well in college where recruiting is the key to success. In the NBA, it helps them very little. Look at all the really good NBA coaches. They're intelligent, not sly, and slimy.

Fwiw - Ha, I found a quip about Tom Crean ... while seeing if two dumbies like JC and BD use advanced metrics. I also heard him say this in a short interview. He's an idiot. As far as I know, there is no possible way to find weakness in opposing +/-. It's a stupid stat designed to see output of lineups, but it's also dependent on who the opponents opposing lineups have been and other things.. too many things..

What a useless stat, what a useless coach. Talking to hear himself speak and sounding like he doesn't understand a damn thing.

Indiana's Tom Crean is another coach who didn't quite crack the list you see below of analytics-friendly coaches, but he utilizes advanced metrics more and more each season. He said he relies on the plus-minus of opposing lineups to attack certain weaknesses.
ProPlaya98
Ballboy
Posts: 16
And1: 3
Joined: Feb 28, 2017

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#24 » by ProPlaya98 » Tue Mar 7, 2017 1:48 pm

Coach Cal is a great recruiter, and a solid coach.
User avatar
sp6r=underrated
RealGM
Posts: 12,540
And1: 3,049
Joined: Jan 20, 2007
 

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#25 » by sp6r=underrated » Sat Apr 8, 2017 4:41 pm

oceanlife wrote:Phenomenal recruiter. Good coach, but X's and O's don't matter as much when you have the talent he routinely puts out.

I admire him for not guilt tripping his players into staying instead of going pro. For example: I remember watching Maryland basketball late 90's early 2000's and Gary Williams convinced potential lottery picks like Terrance Morris to stay in school. This was in no way in the players best interest (Morris ended up a second rounder two years later). Gary Williams just wanted to win games and made no secret of that fact.

It helped Gary Williams short term, but he was never able to build up a great reputation of getting kids into the NBA so he never got great recruiting classes.

Enter Calipari. He doesn't like calling his players student athletes, he pushed his players to declare for the draft when he thought they were ready. He built up a reputation with prospects for A) Being upfront with players and B) putting his players first. I even heard it said he cares more about getting kids drafted than winning championships.

Good article on him:

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/john-calipari-ncaa-honest-man-article-1.1055394

But a much more compelling case could be made that Calipari is a wolf in a land of foxes. Why? Because he’s honest about the realities of a very corrupt collegiate system that uses terms like “amateurism” as a cover for an operation that generates billions on the backs of unpaid teenagers.

The NCAA’s 14-year Final Four contract with CBS alone is worth $10.8 billion.

The Calipari way relies on recruiting star high schoolers to make a run at a championship before, at age 19 or 20, taking their talents to the NBA. He makes no claim that he is coaching “student-athletes” — a terminology that, much to the NCAA’s chagrin, he refuses to use.

He calls his a “players-first program” and has written that “when the season is over, when our TEAM is done playing, my job is to help them make the best decisions, with the best information I can give them, for them and their families. I’m not trying to convince them to come back if that’s not in their best interest. Likewise, I’m never trying to shove anybody out the door.”


I didn't know this about Cal. My respect for the man went up. The NCAA is a disgrace. At least he acknowledges it.
nolang1
Analyst
Posts: 3,058
And1: 1,436
Joined: Aug 03, 2012

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#26 » by nolang1 » Mon May 1, 2017 3:39 am

I think Calipari is just as good at talent evaluation as he is at recruiting. Even at Kentucky you can't just handpick the best of the best recruits every year, and it's not like many players outside the top 5-10 in a high school class are especially likely to be one-and-done. You can go through the McDonald's All-American rosters every year and find people who never pan out, yet Kentucky has done quite well in finding those guys like Tyler Ulis and Willie Cauley-Stein who aren't headliners but end up leaving early and playing well enough to stick around in the league.
User avatar
Lalouie
Head Coach
Posts: 6,334
And1: 2,610
Joined: May 12, 2017

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#27 » by Lalouie » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:09 am

Great recruiter, great communicator with kids and egos, mediocre coach. You realize of course that calipari has never made a final four without a #1 cpoy. All that talent and he still needs a #1 player. There was e even an article, since deleted, of an NBA scout saying his players come in ill prepared for the NBA.
Hoopz Afrik
Veteran
Posts: 2,693
And1: 1,862
Joined: Jul 07, 2009
     

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#28 » by Hoopz Afrik » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:01 pm

good coach, great recruiter, phenomenal player advocate
Super Eagles GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Justwar
Rookie
Posts: 1,027
And1: 179
Joined: Jul 01, 2003
Location: Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#29 » by Justwar » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:33 am

Lalouie wrote:Great recruiter, great communicator with kids and egos, mediocre coach. You realize of course that calipari has never made a final four without a #1 cpoy. All that talent and he still needs a #1 player. There was e even an article, since deleted, of an NBA scout saying his players come in ill prepared for the NBA.



You make Camby a pair of solid Puerto Rican backcourt, a decent Dana dingle then put yourself in the position to win it all? Yep very good. His defenses always rank high even now because he gets great players to actually play defense as a team. A scout calling his players not prepared probably got fired or it was Jeff goodman
User avatar
Lalouie
Head Coach
Posts: 6,334
And1: 2,610
Joined: May 12, 2017

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#30 » by Lalouie » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:29 am

Justwar wrote:
Lalouie wrote:Great recruiter, great communicator with kids and egos, mediocre coach. You realize of course that calipari has never made a final four without a #1 cpoy. All that talent and he still needs a #1 player. There was e even an article, since deleted, of an NBA scout saying his players come in ill prepared for the NBA.




You make Camby a pair of solid Puerto Rican backcourt, a decent Dana dingle then put yourself in the position to win it all? Yep very good. His defenses always rank high even now because he gets great players to actually play defense as a team. A scout calling his players not prepared probably got fired or it was Jeff goodman


You recruit athletes they better play good D in college. Cal is 1up on the opposition before the jump ball and everybody knows he just rolls the ball on court..... Please

Oh geeez, you're from ky.... Nevermind
Justwar
Rookie
Posts: 1,027
And1: 179
Joined: Jul 01, 2003
Location: Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#31 » by Justwar » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:33 pm

So top twenty, and often top 5 defenses are just supposed to happen with freshmen?

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM mobile app
ProfessorJM
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,832
And1: 999
Joined: Nov 03, 2016
     

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#32 » by ProfessorJM » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:07 pm

His transformation of the UMass program is one of the most impressive rises I have ever seen from a coach at any level in any sport. There is also no doubt he is an elite recruiter. I think he is a good, but not great coach when you consider everything.
User avatar
macNcheese3
General Manager
Posts: 8,059
And1: 4,641
Joined: Jul 04, 2015
 

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#33 » by macNcheese3 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:38 pm

bit of both
ahartleyvu
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,314
And1: 45
Joined: May 01, 2007

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#34 » by ahartleyvu » Sun Feb 4, 2018 3:44 pm

It’s tough to coach freshmen to a championship. As a UK fan, I want to complain about it and wish he would recruit a couple players other than 1 and done players.... but then I realize I’m crazy for hoping he will recruit worse players lol.

Maybe if he grabbed a JUCO player more often, might help?

He does a good job dealing with their egos. He kept Boogie Cousins in check for the most part.
User avatar
miltk
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,765
And1: 748
Joined: Oct 09, 2008

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#35 » by miltk » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:07 am

IS THERE ANYTHING LEFT TO SAY?

well, yes. was there ever a smoother paved road to the FF? no, but as i said, cal has never gone far if he didn't have the #1 player in the draft/poy. if the faves hadn't been bounced so early, ky would have been a second round exit. oh wait, that would have been sean miller's zona, yet another underachiever.
DoubleEagle4
Sophomore
Posts: 120
And1: 73
Joined: Jan 11, 2018
 

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#36 » by DoubleEagle4 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:01 pm

miltk wrote:IS THERE ANYTHING LEFT TO SAY?

well, yes. was there ever a smoother paved road to the FF? no, but as i said, cal has never gone far if he didn't have the #1 player in the draft/poy. if the faves hadn't been bounced so early, ky would have been a second round exit. oh wait, that would have been sean miller's zona, yet another underachiever.


A 70% FT shooter went 8-20 from the FT line and UK lost by 3. That's not on the coach. He put them in a position to win the game and they couldn't finish it off. What a horribly officiated game.. over 50 fouls called in a 40 minute game is sickening.
User avatar
miltk
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,765
And1: 748
Joined: Oct 09, 2008

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#37 » by miltk » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:42 pm

Pacers__Talk wrote:
miltk wrote:IS THERE ANYTHING LEFT TO SAY?

well, yes. was there ever a smoother paved road to the FF? no, but as i said, cal has never gone far if he didn't have the #1 player in the draft/poy. if the faves hadn't been bounced so early, ky would have been a second round exit. oh wait, that would have been sean miller's zona, yet another underachiever.


A 70% FT shooter went 8-20 from the FT line and UK lost by 3. That's not on the coach. He put them in a position to win the game and they couldn't finish it off. What a horribly officiated game.. over 50 fouls called in a 40 minute game is sickening.


except that i'm talking about cal's HISTORY, so there's a body of work involved. SMITH, ROSE, WALL, AND DAVIS, and so on down the line. the correlation cannot be overstated or overlooked
User avatar
KidPistol
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,689
And1: 1,449
Joined: Jul 21, 2015
         

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#38 » by KidPistol » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:16 pm

Recruiter. A bit overrated. This Kentucky season proved it. Give Jay Wright a bunch of top talent one and done recruits and he’d have 3 national championships by now going on potentially 4.
The scariest question in NBA history.

"Can Stephen Curry get better?"
User avatar
whocurrz
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,895
And1: 1,278
Joined: Apr 14, 2011
   

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#39 » by whocurrz » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:25 am

miltk wrote:IS THERE ANYTHING LEFT TO SAY?

well, yes. was there ever a smoother paved road to the FF? no, but as i said, cal has never gone far if he didn't have the #1 player in the draft/poy. if the faves hadn't been bounced so early, ky would have been a second round exit. oh wait, that would have been sean miller's zona, yet another underachiever.


UK made the championship game in 2014 with No number 1 pick or college POY. Randle was one of the finalists for the Naismith award in a top 10 pick.
Jarret Jack: “I brought one of my best suits. But looking down at this jersey, it’s just a sense of pride I don’t think I’ve ever felt as a professional. … Nothing in my closet is better than what I have on now."
User avatar
MachoMan
Junior
Posts: 317
And1: 176
Joined: Mar 31, 2018
Location: Space
     

Re: Calipari: Good Coach or Good Recruiter? 

Post#40 » by MachoMan » Sun Apr 1, 2018 5:11 pm

good coach, better recruiter, great duffel bag dropper
"I'm the tower of power, too sweet to be sour. I'm funky like a monkey. Sky's the limit and space is the place!" - Randy Savage

Return to NCAA Basketball