Dragan Bender News, Discussion and Highlights

Damkac · Post #881 » by **Damkac** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:57 pm

Suns needs to find starting PF and C this offseason. Then a new coach needs to bring Bender and Chriss and tell them "Listen ladies. We have spot for one bench player. The one of you who will improve more in the offseason will get that spot. The other one will have his a$$ buried in the G-League for eternity. Now get to work unless you want your rookie contract to be the last one you signed in your life".

Post #882 » by **lilfishi22** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:47 pm

I'm not putting all the blame on coaching because Bender needs to take a big chunk of responsibility for being such a p***y but do you think perhaps we could demand more out of him if we played him differently to just being a stretch 4. I fully understand that even being a stretch 4 doesn't limit you to shooting 3's exclusively but perhaps running a play or two which puts him in a situation where he *needs* to drive. Have him run a PnR or something where he gets run off the 3

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #883 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:07 am

lilfishi22 wrote:I'm not putting all the blame on coaching because Bender needs to take a big chunk of responsibility for being such a p***y but do you think perhaps we could demand more out of him if we played him differently to just being a stretch 4. I fully understand that even being a stretch 4 doesn't limit you to shooting 3's exclusively but perhaps running a play or two which puts him in a situation where he *needs* to drive. Have him run a PnR or something where he gets run off the 3

It's really hard to know. I don't think he's comfortable right now in the post, or driving, or even shooting it really. The kid's so young. One problem with drafting these kids so young is that they may not truly get comfortable in the league until after that first contract is up.

Post #884 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:27 am

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I'm not putting all the blame on coaching because Bender needs to take a big chunk of responsibility for being such a p***y but do you think perhaps we could demand more out of him if we played him differently to just being a stretch 4. I fully understand that even being a stretch 4 doesn't limit you to shooting 3's exclusively but perhaps running a play or two which puts him in a situation where he *needs* to drive. Have him run a PnR or something where he gets run off the 3

It's really hard to know. I don't think he's comfortable right now in the post, or driving, or even shooting it really. The kid's so young. One problem with drafting these kids so young is that they may not truly get comfortable in the league until after that first contract is up.

The way I see it, he's only getting points or contributing offensively via spot up 3pt shooting and moving the ball around. He's already competent at both of that. Maybe a little too competent with the ultra-unselfish moving the ball around part. I don't see why we couldn't start adding things to his game like the PnR, or the driving or working at the elbow even. Make things harder for him and force him to use his other skills. Because in my view, if you don't put a timid player like him in a position they aren't entirely comfortable with, they'll never intentionally put themselves in those positions.

Worse comes to worst, he'll just revert back to the his exclusive 3PT shooting right?

Post #885 » by **bwgood77** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:44 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I'm not putting all the blame on coaching because Bender needs to take a big chunk of responsibility for being such a p***y but do you think perhaps we could demand more out of him if we played him differently to just being a stretch 4. I fully understand that even being a stretch 4 doesn't limit you to shooting 3's exclusively but perhaps running a play or two which puts him in a situation where he *needs* to drive. Have him run a PnR or something where he gets run off the 3

It's really hard to know. I don't think he's comfortable right now in the post, or driving, or even shooting it really. The kid's so young. One problem with drafting these kids so young is that they may not truly get comfortable in the league until after that first contract is up.

The way I see it, he's only getting points or contributing offensively via spot up 3pt shooting and moving the ball around. He's already competent at both of that. Maybe a little too competent with the ultra-unselfish moving the ball around part. I don't see why we couldn't start adding things to his game like the PnR, or the driving or working at the elbow even. Make things harder for him and force him to use his other skills. Because in my view, if you don't put a timid player like him in a position they aren't entirely comfortable with, they'll never intentionally put themselves in those positions.

Worse comes to worst, he'll just revert back to the his exclusive 3PT shooting right?

Yes, they should run plays for him, have him work the pick n roll. He said at some point he would really love to run pick n rolls with bigs or something like that.

Unfortunately I think part of the reason they almost use him exclusively as a floor spacer is because most of the other players can't space the floor. I think if we ended up with Trae or Doncic it would help him out a lot.

Post #886 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:46 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
It's really hard to know. I don't think he's comfortable right now in the post, or driving, or even shooting it really. The kid's so young. One problem with drafting these kids so young is that they may not truly get comfortable in the league until after that first contract is up.

The way I see it, he's only getting points or contributing offensively via spot up 3pt shooting and moving the ball around. He's already competent at both of that. Maybe a little too competent with the ultra-unselfish moving the ball around part. I don't see why we couldn't start adding things to his game like the PnR, or the driving or working at the elbow even. Make things harder for him and force him to use his other skills. Because in my view, if you don't put a timid player like him in a position they aren't entirely comfortable with, they'll never intentionally put themselves in those positions.

Worse comes to worst, he'll just revert back to the his exclusive 3PT shooting right?

Yes, they should run plays for him, have him work the pick n roll. He said at some point he would really love to run pick n rolls with bigs or something like that.

Unfortunately I think part of the reason they almost use him exclusively as a floor spacer is because most of the other players can't space the floor. I think if we ended up with Trae or Doncic it would help him out a lot.

Not saying this is a reason not to draft Trae or Doncic but an unintended consequence is that it would take the ball out of Bender's hands even more. With Booker, Jackson, Trae/Doncic running plays, Bender would only get the ball as a pass out for him to shoot. Just saying I don't see more playmaking opportunities for him by adding another play maker.

Post #887 » by **bwgood77** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:18 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:The way I see it, he's only getting points or contributing offensively via spot up 3pt shooting and moving the ball around. He's already competent at both of that. Maybe a little too competent with the ultra-unselfish moving the ball around part. I don't see why we couldn't start adding things to his game like the PnR, or the driving or working at the elbow even. Make things harder for him and force him to use his other skills. Because in my view, if you don't put a timid player like him in a position they aren't entirely comfortable with, they'll never intentionally put themselves in those positions.

Worse comes to worst, he'll just revert back to the his exclusive 3PT shooting right?

Yes, they should run plays for him, have him work the pick n roll. He said at some point he would really love to run pick n rolls with bigs or something like that.

Unfortunately I think part of the reason they almost use him exclusively as a floor spacer is because most of the other players can't space the floor. I think if we ended up with Trae or Doncic it would help him out a lot.

Not saying this is a reason not to draft Trae or Doncic but an unintended consequence is that it would take the ball out of Bender's hands even more. With Booker, Jackson, Trae/Doncic running plays, Bender would only get the ball as a pass out for him to shoot. Just saying I don't see more playmaking opportunities for him by adding another play maker.

Perhaps....though I think he gets more easy looks and doesn't have to stand out on the 3 pt line as much with another floor spacer..can cut..we do not have a really good set up guy right now...those guys I think help everyone at everything on offense.

Sunsss · Post #888 » by **Sunsss** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:41 am

He should have stayed in Europe for a couple years and get consistent minutes in a league like Spain or Turkey. He declared and came over immediately even before playing consistently against grown men. I don't recall any foreign player being successful in the NBA after a jump like that.

Saberestar · Post #889 » by **Saberestar** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:16 am

Sunsss wrote:He should have stayed in Europe for a couple years and get consistent minutes in a league like Spain or Turkey. He declared and came over immediately even before playing consistently against grown men. I don't recall any foreign player being successful in the NBA after a jump like that.

Yeah, but he could not have received nearly $9M for this two "learning" seasons on the Suns.

Jdiddy701 · Post #890 » by **Jdiddy701** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:33 am

Next time, when a player averages 5 points overseas, do not draft him so high. Never understood why he was drafted #4 to begin with. I get he didn’t get much playing time, I think we know why and don’t tell me it’s due to his age. If you can ball, you ain’t sitting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Revived · Post #891 » by **Revived** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:40 am

lilfishi22 wrote:I'm not putting all the blame on coaching because Bender needs to take a big chunk of responsibility for being such a p***y but do you think perhaps we could demand more out of him if we played him differently to just being a stretch 4. I fully understand that even being a stretch 4 doesn't limit you to shooting 3's exclusively but perhaps running a play or two which puts him in a situation where he *needs* to drive. Have him run a PnR or something where he gets run off the 3

Yeah I too think he could be used differently and perhaps more effectively.

Earlier in the season i can’t renenber who but someone was trying to make a case that Bender improved under Triano and I was refuting that by pointing to this as well.

Mjee · Post #892 » by **Mjee** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:40 am

Dragan Bender needs to grow some balls ...

Post #893 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:04 am

Something happened after that 2 March game where he took ONE shot in 36min of playing time. Since then, he's shooting under 30% from the field and from the 3. The previous 10 games before he dropped his 0 for 1 game, he was shooting over .400 from the 3. What's changed?

Post #894 » by **bwgood77** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:22 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Something happened after that 2 March game where he took ONE shot in 36min of playing time. Since then, he's shooting under 30% from the field and from the 3. The previous 10 games before he dropped his 0 for 1 game, he was shooting over .400 from the 3. What's changed?

I think the Payton addition hurt him. He played fairly well and shot fairly well before that but after he passed up an easy lay in that Payton gave him, Payton just started ignoring him completely. He got out of the flow of the offense. I think it hurt his confidence quite a bit, after he had just started to gain some.

Post #895 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:27 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Something happened after that 2 March game where he took ONE shot in 36min of playing time. Since then, he's shooting under 30% from the field and from the 3. The previous 10 games before he dropped his 0 for 1 game, he was shooting over .400 from the 3. What's changed?

I think the Payton addition hurt him. He played fairly well and shot fairly well before that but after he passed up an easy lay in that Payton gave him, Payton just started ignoring him completely. He got out of the flow of the offense. I think it hurt his confidence quite a bit, after he had just started to gain some.

If you think there is causation there, then I don't want Payton, even for cheap

thamadkant · Post #896 » by **thamadkant** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:41 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Something happened after that 2 March game where he took ONE shot in 36min of playing time. Since then, he's shooting under 30% from the field and from the 3. The previous 10 games before he dropped his 0 for 1 game, he was shooting over .400 from the 3. What's changed?

I think the Payton addition hurt him. He played fairly well and shot fairly well before that but after he passed up an easy lay in that Payton gave him, Payton just started ignoring him completely. He got out of the flow of the offense. I think it hurt his confidence quite a bit, after he had just started to gain some.

Payton's smart player, then he knows Bender will get the ball and pass it off anyways doing nothing.

If I was a PG trying to get my team mates shots.. I'd skip on passing to Bender as well because he doesnt do anything with it.

Fo-Real · Post #897 » by **Fo-Real** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:40 pm

Its Elfs fault, and Watsons and Mc D and the team dynamic and the fact that he wasnt named starter his first minute and injuries and Bledso and Knight, and playing time and his shoe brand and role and .... and....and... His skill set tho, if everyone stops holding this franchise unicorn back, he is gonna take off. Thanks Obama! :lol:

(sorry for my rant)

darealjuice · Post #898 » by **darealjuice** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:26 pm

Honestly Bender doesn’t have a big role on offense because it’s tough to find a role for him that isn’t just spot up shooting right now. You’re not giving him the ball to go 1-on-1 or play pick and roll when he’s not comfortable dribbling the ball outside of straight line drives with his right hand, he’s still too weak to be posting anyone up with the intention of scoring right now, and his playmaking is mostly limited to shots created out of the offense and back door cuts because he doesn’t have the ball handling/aggressiveness to attack and improvise. Sometimes I wonder if he’s not as aggressive because he’s (rightfully) not confident in his game outside of shooting, swinging the ball, and defense, but I definitely don’t want to assume that. I also wonder whether if that lack of aggressiveness will change if/when he develops more skill-wise and physically.

Bottom line is he’s been particularly bad lately, and he’s going to have one foot out of the door if he doesn’t start start showing he can hang with Booker, JJ, and this year’s pick next season.

Ettorefm · Post #899 » by **Ettorefm** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:31 pm

Finally people have come around to the same obvious conclusion - He's not an NBA player right now.

And to the "he doesn't get plays for him" ; " playing as a stretch 4 limits his game" crowd, watch one Lauri Markkanen game. Just one. He has no plays for him, he hands off the ball to other players 90% of the time, rarely has the ball and yet when he gets it, he gets things done.

If he's open, he shoots. If he knows he can make it and is kinda guarded, he shoots. If the guy goes after him, he takes a dribble and shoots a pull up mid range jumper, or goes straight to the hoop with BALLS and goes for the contact. If he has a smaller guy, he posts the guy up. If he sees the bank, he'll shoot it.

Saberestar · Post #900 » by **Saberestar** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:33 pm

Fo-Real wrote:Its Elfs fault, and Watsons and Mc D and the team dynamic and the fact that he wasnt named starter his first minute and injuries and Bledso and Knight, and playing time and his shoe brand and role and .... and....and... His skill set tho, if everyone stops holding this franchise unicorn back, he is gonna take off. Thanks Obama! (sorry for my rant)

Yeah, probably it's even the Gorilla's fault that Bender has been playing TERRIBLE basketball for this two seasons.

Against the Clippers Bender embarrassed himself, he couldn't play worse on both ends of the floor. It was sad, seriously.

I heard all the time that he lacks confidence, but he lacks confidence because he doesn't have the skills to make things happen on a basketball court. He needs to train all summer long on his ball handling, pull ups jumpers, post up game, rebounding.....so many things on that he is really raw.

He needs to come from the bench next season and compete for minutes as a backup. He needs to earn playing time, if he is not good enough do not play him.

Would you bring back Bender?