Luka Doncic Part III

[burek3]

Tavares is driving me nuts with his hot-and-cold performances. His huge wingspan seems more like a burden than advantage on offense...
When Luka has competent roll players (example Hunter/Ayon last year), everything opens up.

Kudos to Reyes, but still, if Reyes is the only one that can add depth, they are ucked. Ayon is injured, again



*3 out of 7 3pt shots were half/full court shots

[AJ3]

Tavares is driving me nuts with his hot-and-cold performances. His huge wingspan seems more like a burden than advantage on offense...
When Luka has competent roll players (example Hunter/Ayon last year), everything opens up.

Kudos to Reyes, but still, if Reyes is the only one that can add depth, they are ucked. Ayon is injured, again



*3 out of 7 3pt shots were half/full court shots

I'm not sure how PIR Works but him missing those 3 3P lowers it right?

[burek3]

It does, each missed FGA is -1 on PIR.

[Mirotic12]

I'm not sure how PIR Works but him missing those 3 3P lowers it right?

(Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks + Fouls Drawn) - (Missed Field Goals + Missed Free Throws + Turnovers + Shots Rejected + Fouls Committed)

Here is a site that gives it in an example form:

https://captaincalculator.com/sports/basketball/performance-index-rating-calculator/

It's a super overrated stat. I have no idea why something like EuroLeague is still so stuck on it.

PIR is basically the old original Tendex stat from the 1960s, minus any weighting measures. So a non weighted version basically of the first advanced stat. Back in the 80s, the Celtics used to basically use PIR like the old hockey plus minus stat (everything good = +1, everything bad = -1).

For some reason Spanish League decided at some point that this was the most important basketball stat in existence, and now it's completely taken over European basketball. It really makes no sense for why a player's worth or value is based on this in Europe, but whatever.

[memento]

So which statistical method they should use to evaluate their players then?

[juanc]

I see some of you are really frustrated with his shots at the end of the period, so I decided to make a research about that. I have looked over every play-by-play from each game Luka has played in euroleague this season. Luka has played 25 games in EL and has has had 19 attempt for three(he has made 1 vs Barcelona) at the end of periods. So if you look at his 3PT statistic (44/136 = 32.4%) minus the last second atempts(1/19) you get 43/117 = 36.8 % , and that IMO is a more accurate showing of his percentages this year

[BlueSan]

nice to see juanc. If only someone would deduce all the poor shots choices also, we could get his real numbers

But in all seriousness I have no idea what has been happening with him lately in general

[juanc]

nice to see juanc. If only someone would deduce all the poor shots choices also, we could get his real numbers

But in all seriousness I have no idea what has been happening with him lately in general

I didn't say that those are his actuall number, i just put out the attempts that were made in the last seconds of the period. I'm not saying that there were no open attempts,but as we know the majority of those were contested/full court shots. So I think his 3PT% is closer to 37 that it is to 32 wich makes a difference IMO

[BlueSan]

Yeah I know, I appreciate the info really. It gets to show how he has total disregard of statistics

[Mirotic12]

Just about every lead ball handler has to take the shots at the end of the quarter. Nothing at all unique to Doncic. I don't see why that even matters.

[eminence]

Just about every lead ball handler has to take the shots at the end of the quarter. Nothing at all unique to Doncic. I don't see why that even matters.

Maybe in Europe, but a surprising number of players here in the US won't throw up those last second prayers (Steph is a notable exception).

[No-Man]

Just about every lead ball handler has to take the shots at the end of the quarter. Nothing at all unique to Doncic. I don't see why that even matters.

Maybe in Europe, but a surprising number of players here in the US won't throw up those last second prayers (Steph is a notable exception).

def in Europe, but teams rarely go into early offense sets over here

[UcanUwill]

Just about every lead ball handler has to take the shots at the end of the quarter. Nothing at all unique to Doncic. I don't see why that even matters.

A lot of NBA guys just let shot clock expire...

[AJ3]

So let's say Luka comes over and shoots let's say, 34% but chucks it loads of times effectively making his 3P shot somewhere around 38-39%, are people going to be calling him out for his "low" 3p% ?

[BoardCrusher]

Just about every lead ball handler has to take the shots at the end of the quarter. Nothing at all unique to Doncic. I don't see why that even matters.

Im willing to make a bet he takes more of these shots then any other lead ball handler in Euroleague. Ive already pointed this out previous season(cant remember the name of the guy that tried to prove me wrong), but this season its even more obvious.

And it matters cause these shots make his 3pt % look bad, the stat guys only see the number 31% and immediately consider him a below average 3 point shooter, which he definitely isnt.
Also, it often happens that he needs to take last second shots in regular attacks, just cause Campazzo ballhogs without any result.

Its also not true, that as a lead ball handler he NEEDS to take last second shots at end of quarters, often they are up 15-20 points and he still takes them, totally unnecessary.

[SportsGuy8]

Just about every lead ball handler has to take the shots at the end of the quarter. Nothing at all unique to Doncic. I don't see why that even matters.

A lot of NBA guys just let shot clock expire...

Many NBA players are very tricky and intentionally shoot slightly after buzzer, so that they're able to take a fun shot while not corrupting their stats.

[Mirotic12]

Maybe in Europe, but a surprising number of players here in the US won't throw up those last second prayers (Steph is a notable exception).

Well, in the leagues Doncic plays in, everyone is expected to shoot those shots, and it's usually the lead ball handler that takes them. So it's not like it's affecting his shooting percentages anymore than any numerous number of other guards.

Actually, just last season, Llull was taking more of those kinds of shots than Doncic was, on the same team.

I really don't think it's that big of a deal. It's a pretty basic part of the game.

Im willing to make a bet he takes more of these shots then any other lead ball handler in Euroleague. Ive already pointed this out previous season(cant remember the name of the guy that tried to prove me wrong), but this season its even more obvious.

And it matters cause these shots make his 3pt % look bad, the stat guys only see the number 31% and immediately consider him a below average 3 point shooter, which he definitely isnt.
Also, it often happens that he needs to take last second shots in regular attacks, just cause Campazzo ballhogs without any result.

Its also not true, that as a lead ball handler he NEEDS to take last second shots at end of quarters, often they are up 15-20 points and he still takes them, totally unnecessary.

I'm pretty sure Spanoulis takes more - Olympiacos often makes him do so at the end of all 4 quarters in each game. Llull was last season. Huertel takes a lot of them too. Shved takes a lot also.

It might affect Doncic's shooting stats slightly, (like 3% or something), but it's really not something to make a big deal over, in terms of what level of shooter he is. Honestly, If I am the team, I want him taking those shots, him and any other player. They go in every now and then. For players to simply not take them, or take them after the shot clock (for stats), is selfish and anti team play.

[homecourtloss]

Well this nonagressive fat european hamburger is still averaging like 23/8/7 overall or whatever per 36 so he's doing something right.

[Grits n Gravy]

I'm not sure how PIR Works but him missing those 3 3P lowers it right?

(Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks + Fouls Drawn) - (Missed Field Goals + Missed Free Throws + Turnovers + Shots Rejected + Fouls Committed)

Here is a site that gives it in an example form:

https://captaincalculator.com/sports/basketball/performance-index-rating-calculator/

It's a super overrated stat. I have no idea why something like EuroLeague is still so stuck on it.

PIR is basically the old original Tendex stat from the 1960s, minus any weighting measures. So a non weighted version basically of the first advanced stat. Back in the 80s, the Celtics used to basically use PIR like the old hockey plus minus stat (everything good = +1, everything bad = -1).

For some reason Spanish League decided at some point that this was the most important basketball stat in existence, and now it's completely taken over European basketball. It really makes no sense for why a player's worth or value is based on this in Europe, but whatever.

LOL why in the **** is having your shot blocked counted? It's already counting the missed shot right? Who cares if your shot is blocked.

[Grits n Gravy]

So let's say Luka comes over and shoots let's say, 34% but chucks it loads of times effectively making his 3P shot somewhere around 38-39%, are people going to be calling him out for his "low" 3p% ?

I know basketball reference tracks "heaves" so that should be clear.