2017-2018 College Basketball / '18 NBA Draft Thread

Kobblehead · Post #1841 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:01 pm

Why aren't people as concerned with Marvin Bagley?

Tweener stuck between the 4 and the 5. Garbage wingspan. Might not be able to shoot. Isn't a good defender.

Kobblehead · Post #1842 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:16 pm

Nobody is going to want to have to make the pick and be wrong, but I think Jaren Jackson could be the next Brow. I would take him #1 over all these guys.

PLO · Post #1843 » by **PLO** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:21 pm

Shai isn't going to be a plus defender in the NBA straight up. He'd be lucky to be 180 pounds. Strength and size are very important in a man's league like the NBA, just ask DeAaron Fox who was close to elite on that end in college.

Two things he will have to improve on will be that (putting weight onto what is a pretty skinny frame) and his shot. I will be very surprised if he goes before Trae Young myself and I also think there's a big chance he's available to us if we get the Lakers pick.

Having said all that I would be quite OK with the 76ers drafting Shai - he was a beast for much of the last part of the season when the games mattered most. This is probably our last chance at an elite talent in this window and I do think he fits that category. He's not exactly athletic but as someone pointed out he has quite a bit of that Harden thing of being elite at slowing down, combine that with his excellent game IQ and you can see the reason why he draws so many fouls.

In terms of fit with our roster its pretty obvious he's going to have to take many more 3 points shots than what he's attempted in college so for one he's going to have to speed up his shot a heap.

All this talk of trading up in the draft is bunkum, an elite talent will fall to us if we land the Lakers pick and all we have to do is wait our turn.

Kobblehead · Post #1844 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:27 pm

I never bought the hype in Fox's defense. He never looked good to me. I thought Lonzo Ball and Markelle Fultz both were better defensively.

Shai and Lonzo have similar tall, skinny frames. That hasn't stopped Lonzo from being one of the better defensive guards in basketball in just his rookie year.

PLO · Post #1845 » by **PLO** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:34 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Why aren't people as concerned with Marvin Bagley?

Tweener stuck between the 4 and the 5. Garbage wingspan. Might not be able to shoot. Isn't a good defender.

I've come around a bit on Bagley, he's obviously a lock for top 5. I think his wingspan is OK but you are right he is a bad defender right now. Pundits were really fretting over Ben Simmons' portability predraft but I think for Bagley that should be triple that. He really has to go to a situation where he has a shot-blocking stretch 5 next to him like Porzingis so Bagley can play the five offensively and the four defensively. Having said that you have to recognise the production and the talent. He's one of the best college players I've ever seen within three feet of the basket. I'll be very interested to see how his outlier athletic skills go in the NBA.

Kobblehead · Post #1846 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:44 pm

Bagley's athletic talent and production are great.

But when projecting him into the league, I just have some hiccups.

If you ignore all the packaging and production and just look at him on surface, he's essentially a frontcourt player with crap measurables, sub-par defensive instincts, and a sub-par offensive skill level. Doesn't that worry people?

Negrodamus · Post #1847 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:48 pm

Hot take alert: I still like Bamba more than Bagley and Ayton in how they'll translate to the league.

PLO · Post #1848 » by **PLO** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:51 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I never bought the hype in Fox's defense. He never looked good to me. I thought Lonzo Ball and Markelle Fultz both were better defensively.

Shai and Lonzo have similar tall, skinny frames. That hasn't stopped Lonzo from being one of the better defensive guards in basketball in just his rookie year.

Shai is a bit more ectomorphic and he would have to be a better defender than Lonzo given we're basically drafting him as a wing. We would not be grooming him to be the primary ball-handler like the Lakers are with Ball. They're expecting long-term that Lonzo's offensive output will far outstrip his efforts on D, as that's what point guards are supposed to do in the NBA at a basic level: create offense.

Fox's definitely has the athletic tools and IQ to be a very good on-ball defender - his lateral agility is top notch - he's just too light on at this stage. Even having 10 lbs of more muscle is a huge boon for being a good defender in the NBA. That's the difference between his weight and Lonzo's and Frank Ntilikina, let alone when you're comparing him to the heavier guards of the league. Donovan Mitchell is a behemoth compared to any of them which is explains why he is holding his own defensively while producing on the other end.

Kobblehead · Post #1849 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:52 pm

I been saying it since the fall, but I prefer Wendell Carter to Marvin Bagley.

He has better measurables, he's a better defender, he's more skilled offensively.

Kobblehead · Post #1850 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:59 pm

Like, I'm not even sure if I'd want Marvin Bagley on the court down the stretch of a closely contested game. He doesn't defend and he can't hit his free throws.

So what exactly are NBA teams hoping to get with Marvin Bagley?

PLO · Post #1851 » by **PLO** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:13 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Hot take alert: I still like Bamba more than Bagley and Ayton in how they'll translate to the league.

I like Bamba least of those three - I pity the franchise that drafts him top 10 especially with the exceptional bigs in this class and the other talent around. Talking of having to put on weight he's going to be pawned in this league night to night - while he's probably not going to be as bad as what Thon Maker has been this season in terms of banging it inside I think it will be close. They will have to put a "not safe for children" rating on the first TV broadcast of when Bamba has to play OKC. Steven Adams will destroy him.

Thing is I don't see the positional athleticism in Bamba - like if he even had a fraction of the hopping ability Bagley has I think he'd be fine but he really has to coil himself to spring. Like he may or may not develop some sort of perimeter game but his meat and potatoes is going to be crashing boards, blocking shots, holding space and banging inside against guys like Boogie Cousins.

If someone like Miles Bridges is drafted 10 spots after Bamba I would find that quite ridiculous, but it could well happen.

He's someone who is going to be VERY reliant on getting up to Gobert's weight and probably quite a bit heavier given he's not half the athlete Gobert is.

In terms of value I'd take Mitchell Robinson at 16 compared to Bamba at 6 in a heartbeat.

PLO · Post #1852 » by **PLO** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:18 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I been saying it since the fall, but I prefer Wendell Carter to Marvin Bagley.

He has better measurables, he's a better defender, he's more skilled offensively.

TBH I think you're probably right. Carter would have been top 5 in last years draft IMO. I think the perception of him was hurt by his slow start to the season and some of the ineptitude coach K has had with his freshmen this season. He's a really cerebral player - I could certainly see him having a better career than Bagley though there''s little doubt who will be drafted first.

51X3RF4N · Post #1853 » by **51X3RF4N** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:52 pm

My top picks/fits with the Sixers roster right now:

1. JJ, Jr
2. Mikal Bridges
3. Wendell Carter
4. Zhaire Smith
5. Robert Williams
6. Dzanan Musa

If the Sixers can come away with 1 of these 6 players, I'd be pretty happy.

Kobblehead · Post #1854 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:13 pm

PLO wrote:I like Bamba least of those three - I pity the franchise that drafts him top 10 especially with the exceptional bigs in this class and the other talent around.

I feel more pity for the team that has to take Bagley 1st or 2nd overall than I do for the team that gets Bamba in the back half of the top 10.

At least with Bamba, he's going to come as advertised. You know he's going to alter/block shots, be good on the glass, convert assists at the rim, and not embarrass himself at the free throw line.

With Bagley, you're basically hoping that the athletic prowess he possesses at his size continues to allow him to be one of the best players on the floor.

Skates · Post #1855 » by **Skates** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:34 pm

Bagley looks like empty numbers waiting to happen for a bad team. Jaren Jackson reminds me a lot of a young Rasheed Wallace talent without the Rasheed attitude issues. I want him.

ivysixer2000 · Post #1856 » by **ivysixer2000** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:18 pm

Well I see 8-9 top prospects in the draft, too bad 10 is the highest we can be.

Maybe someone ahead of us will do something stupid, other than that is the reason why I wouldn't mind moving up slightly. With our roster we can afford to take alot of guys just cause of talent alone, instead of fit like last year. Our present roster are all moving pieces and can be moved around based on talent.

After those 8-9 prospects, I see a significant drop off in talent.

Kobblehead · Post #1857 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:03 pm

What specific 8-9 players are we talking about?

ivysixer2000 · Post #1858 » by **ivysixer2000** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:38 pm

Ayton, Bagley, Porter (love to redshirt him), Doncic, Bamba, JJJ (who I wish we had a shot at), Carter, Young (as a starter he would suck, as a bench guy as a rookie he could be special), are my top 8, no particular order.

Then you get to SGA, Makil, and Sexton. Any one of them can go at 9-11, but I still think they are a tier down from my top 8 (IMO). Makil is a junior, enough said there. SGA and Sexton are totally different players, both will take alot of time to develop. Not against any of them really, just would rather get one of those top 8 (IMO) guys where I know what I'm getting. We have no idea if SGA or Sexton will develop, and Makil while good doesn't move the needle any.

PLO · Post #1859 » by **PLO** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:14 am

Kobblehead wrote:
PLO wrote:I like Bamba least of those three - I pity the franchise that drafts him top 10 especially with the exceptional bigs in this class and the other talent around.

I feel more pity for the team that has to take Bagley 1st or 2nd overall than I do for the team that gets Bamba in the back half of the top 10.

At least with Bamba, he's going to come as advertised. You know he's going to alter/block shots, be good on the glass, convert assists at the rim, and not embarrass himself at the free throw line.

With Bagley, you're basically hoping that the athletic prowess he possesses at his size continues to allow him to be one of the best players on the floor.

I think your concerns with Bagley are legitimate, and I basically shared your view earlier in the season, but I'm more firm on his outlook now than then. I think he can become a not-negative perimeter defender due to his athletic ability - his defensive awareness is an issue so I don't think he's going to be a Ben Simmons but I think he can cope. The issue will be the closer he gets to the rim on that end of the floor. Ironically earlier in the season he looked like he had cement shoes on out on the perimeter but I think that was just due to he didn't really know what he was doing, but from over the last 6 weeks that looks not to be the case at all. I think he will surprise some in the NBA with his defense outside of shot-blocking.

In terms of his offensive output he's obviously going to have work on his shot and develop past his rudimentary face-up game because isolating on mismatches 5 feet from the rim is going to have limited use in the NBA. He has really nice touch around the rim so whatever his shooting figures are I'm positive on him improving them. I think he's probably never going to be a good ball-handler but its not as if he can't improve there and its not as if he has to have a Kemba/Kyrie handle to be productive as a PF. Its not as if he comes into the NBA as the finished product and what he's good at he's outlier good at; imagine how difficult he will be to play against if he develops an off-hand finish at the rim which is entirely plausible and within his realm of outcomes.

I have him higher than Bamba but agree he's no lock to live up to his projected draft slot but Bagley's upside is huge so I have no issue with a team swinging on him in the top 5. A lot will depend on where he goes to. The lottery guys who I'm on much more solid ground with are Doncic, JJJ, Trae Young, the two Bridges, Carter, Shai and probably Ayton.

ivysixer2000 · Post #1860 » by **ivysixer2000** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:15 am

This is probably the last year we get to have this discussion about the draft so we better make the right pick.

If Fultz in the future can dribble down with 7 secs on the clock for a bucket, that changes everything. We got some games to figure that out, but that would put Mikal in the picture. If you want Mikal, you better cheer for Fultz.....otherwise its SGA, Sexton, or Young in your future.

Personally, I still want Young cause Fultz can start and Young can be a spark off the bench. If Fultz can handle all that pressure, then we can go all defensive with Mikal and ignore Young. Really its that simple.

This is about team building, don't care about the players individually. I'm not that emotional.