The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[clyde21]

Would be a travesty if D-Mitch doesn't win this thing.

[TFK]

Would be a travesty if D-Mitch doesn't win this thing.

One of the dumber posts you’ll see

[Litany]

yo lattimer....answer my question and forget about what you perceive as backhanded compliments.

If u're offered ben simmons for donovan mitchell for the next 10 years...would you accept the trade??

It would be a very difficult decision, but I would not take Simmons for Mitchell if I was offered. Kill me if you like, but I'm happy with Mitchell.

It's part of why I take such issue with people thinking it's a "forgone conclusion" that Simmons should be ROTY. I think it is very close and I can see Simmons winning it because he's doing awesome things and will be a fantastic player.

I think what Mitchell does is truly special and unique. You need a guy who can score like him and play off the ball and defend like him and can close games for you by himself!! or has the ability to involve others if that opens up. Simmons needs that to open up, which with Embiid, it's a good bet to happen! But you need to build around Simmons in a certain way to have it work best...with Mitchell he can work with any players since he has unlimited range and scoring ability.

Watch the last few minutes of this game...Simmons couldn't pull something like this off in a million years. Could he create something and maybe have something similar happen by setting up his teammates? Sure...but he's relying on his teammates to finish and close it. But I want a guy who can close and MItchell seems like that killer to me. Simmons doesn't have the 3-pt shot and the other team could hack-a-Simmons for the next few years...maybe he'll fix it...I'd bet on it..but I dont' see him turning into a shooter and I don't see him closing games like you need your guy to. I can see Simmons being #2 on the champ team, but you need your #1. Mitchell is a #1 option on championship team.

As others pointed out...Mitchell can play off the ball or he can take it as the #1 option and create for himself or others...he's dangerous everywhere.

Watch on YouTube

[anthony00]

Would be a travesty if D-Mitch doesn't win this thing.

One of the dumber posts you’ll see

not really

[clyde21]

Would be a travesty if D-Mitch doesn't win this thing.

One of the dumber posts you’ll see

Sorry, I tend to think players that should win the rookie of the year award should be, I don't know, rookies.

I know, crazy idea.

[TFK]

Would be a travesty if D-Mitch doesn't win this thing.

One of the dumber posts you’ll see

not really

“Travesty” for guy who leads rookies in virtually every single category except points (and is 2nd) and is excellent on defense as well to win the ROTY.... ummmm yeah that’s pretty dumb. Argue for Mitchell to win it, fine. To say it’s a travesty if it doesn’t happen... ughhhhh SMDH

[TFK]

Would be a travesty if D-Mitch doesn't win this thing.

One of the dumber posts you’ll see

Sorry, I tend to think players that should win the rookie of the year award should be, I don't know, rookies.

I know, crazy idea.

Except, ummmmm, he is a rookie, just like redshirt freshmen in college can still set “freshman” records. That’s the rule, has always been the rule.

[clyde21]

One of the dumber posts you’ll see

Sorry, I tend to think players that should win the rookie of the year award should be, I don't know, rookies.

I know, crazy idea.

Except, ummmmm, he is a rookie, just like redshirt freshmen in college can still set “freshman” records. That’s the rule, has always been the rule.

Was Simmons in the NBA last season? Yes or no?

[Litany]

yo lattimer....answer my question and forget about what you perceive as backhanded compliments.

If u're offered ben simmons for donovan mitchell for the next 10 years...would you accept the trade??

It would be a very difficult decision, but I would not take Simmons for Mitchell if I was offered. Kill me if you like, but I'm happy with Mitchell.

It's part of why I take such issue with people thinking it's a "forgone conclusion" that Simmons should be ROTY. I think it is very close and I can see Simmons winning it because he's doing awesome things and will be a fantastic player.

I think what Mitchell does is truly special and unique. You need a guy who can score like him and play off the ball and defend like him and can close games for you by himself!! or has the ability to involve others if that opens up. Simmons needs that to open up, which with Embiid, it's a good bet to happen! But you need to build around Simmons in a certain way to have it work best...with Mitchell he can work with any players since he has unlimited range and scoring ability.

Watch the last few minutes of this game...Simmons couldn't pull something like this off in a million years. Could he create something and maybe have something similar happen by setting up his teammates? Sure...but he's relying on his teammates to finish and close it. But I want a guy who can close and MItchell seems like that killer to me. Simmons doesn't have the 3-pt shot and the other team could hack-a-Simmons for the next few years...maybe he'll fix it...I'd bet on it..but I dont' see him turning into a shooter and I don't see him closing games like you need your guy to. I can see Simmons being #2 on the champ team, but you need your #1. Mitchell is a #1 option on championship team.

As others pointed out...Mitchell can play off the ball or he can take it as the #1 option and create for himself or others...he's dangerous everywhere.

Watch on YouTube

Yes I'm quoting my own post But I want people to take the time to watch the last few minutes of that spurs game in here. This is so unreal what he does...I watch it again for like the 5th time and I'm like omg still.

[TFK]

Sorry, I tend to think players that should win the rookie of the year award should be, I don't know, rookies.

I know, crazy idea.

Except, ummmmm, he is a rookie, just like redshirt freshmen in college can still set “freshman” records. That’s the rule, has always been the rule.

Was Simmons in the NBA last season? Yes or no?

Yes, and he broke his ankle/foot in preseason and didn’t play a single minute or game all year, which makes him a rookie this year by NBA rules. Not a subjective issue. You want to argue if the rule should be changed, super, go for it.

[clyde21]

Except, ummmmm, he is a rookie, just like redshirt freshmen in college can still set “freshman” records. That’s the rule, has always been the rule.

Was Simmons in the NBA last season? Yes or no?

Yes

Case closed.

[phifans]

Was Simmons in the NBA last season? Yes or no?

Yes

Case closed.

Why would you keep arguing with other fans about this rule like it would afect anything ?

Rule is the rule. And you keep repeating you dont like it here wont change it.

[TFK]

Fultz for ROTY?

[sixerswillrule]

Would be a travesty if D-Mitch doesn't win this thing.

One of the dumber posts you’ll see

Sorry, I tend to think players that should win the rookie of the year award should be, I don't know, rookies.

I know, crazy idea.

Are you seriously saying the same **** for the 50th time? The NBA considers him a rookie. Let it go.

Is it a travesty that Simmons is considered a rookie? Your opinion.

Given the fact that Simmons is considered a rookie for the purpose of the rookie of the year award, would it be a travesty if Mitchell doesn't win it? Nope, not even close.

[downtownpie]

as well as simmons is playing after missing a year, it's a shame that lost year has delayed his progress.

[Drax]

Except, ummmmm, he is a rookie, just like redshirt freshmen in college can still set “freshman” records. That’s the rule, has always been the rule.

Was Simmons in the NBA last season? Yes or no?

Yes, and he broke his ankle/foot in preseason and didn’t play a single minute or game all year, which makes him a rookie this year by NBA rules. Not a subjective issue. You want to argue if the rule should be changed, super, go for it.

Case undrafted rookie goes to summer league three straight years, gets two camp invites and finally gets a guaranteed contract in his thrid summer, doesn't play a single regualar season minute. Signs with an other team in year four and breaks out (becomes a 12 minute a game type of roleplayer), rookie or not?

[clyde21]

Yes

Case closed.

Why would you keep arguing with other fans about this rule like it would afect anything ?

Rule is the rule. And you keep repeating you dont like it here wont change it.

Because my opinion is that the rule doesn't make sense, and thus, it would be a complete and utter travesty for a TRUE rookie who's having this type of year to miss out on the award in favor of a player who's already spent an entire season in the NBA.

[Catchall]

They should just share the award, imo.

[bebopdeluxe]

8-)

I think Jazz fans might ask the same question in reverse to us Sixers fans. I’d politely decline of course, because not only do I give the slight edge to Simmons straight up, but like I said, all things being equal, a “Simmons” is harder to find than a “Mitchell”

I do not to to denigrate what Mitchell has done - he is scoring the ball at a historical level for a rookie - but there is some truth to this, IMO...which ties into the post I just made above. A player his size...being able to do what he can do on both sides of the ball (as a point guard and as a defender) is truly unique. I mean there are many elite wing scorers in the league, and just about every draft year brings at least another 1-2 of them into the league. Players with Simmons’ size, speed, strength and skill package - on both sides of the ball - are a much more rare commodity, IMO.

Simmons can always develop a jumper and improve his free throw percentage. Mitchell isn’t going to grow 7-8 inches, elongate his wingspan and be able to guard all five positions on the floor. They are different players, with different strengths...but IMO Simmons is just the more unique and versatile skill package.

Sorry for the subjective nature of the posts. I will get back to bludgeoning the board with advanced metrics soon enough...

the flow of your posts...

You say things like "I'm not trying to denigrate what Mitchell is doing...what he's doing is historic for a rookie"...

then a few sentences later it's "at least another 1-2 of guys like Mitchell come into the league every year." So he's not special, according to you.

It's impossible to have a conversation with you when you make comments that constantly contradict and the obvious thinly veiled homerism and insults.

I'm expecting Mitchell to be a top 3 SG in his prime and lead a championship team. I could totally be wrong but I think it's a good bet to expect Mitchell to be a top 10 player in the league. The kid has real game.

We aren't talking about projecting him as some starting level Shooting Guard. What Mitchell brings to the table IS special and IS unique...just as what Simmons brings is special and unique.

Like I said...I don't know why I bother..

It is clear that you and I are getting nowhere, so I just have one more question, and then I am done:

if you believe that Donovan Mitchell deserves to win the ROY award over Ben Simmons because he has been the superior player during the 2017-18 season, then why - in terms of both player-to-player comparisons as well as contributions relative to their team - is Simmons so utterly dominant in terms of statistical and advanced analytical comparisons?

[QPR]

They should just share the award, imo.

That would be a cop-out. Mitchell unfortunately has been the second best rookie all season. That doesn't mean he hasn't had a brilliant season, just that it has happened in the same year as a historic one.