Has Dennis Schroder reached his ceiling?

[Jamaaliver]

This might need its own thread:

Hawks: Has Schroder reached his ceiling?

Before this season, FiveThirtyEight.com’s statistical forecast categorized Hawks point guard Dennis Schroder as an “average starter.” Now that Schroder has played 54 games during his second season as a full-time starter, and the first as the offensive leader, the evidence suggests “average starter” might be Schroder’s ceiling.


If that turns out to be the case, there would be nothing wrong with it. But before this season there was hope that Schroder might become more than an average starter because of his age (still just 24) and unique ability to drive to the basket. It hasn’t happened.

Schroder is a productive scorer at 22.5 points per 36 minutes but not very efficient when placed in the context of his usage rate. Schroder still gets to the basket pretty much whenever he wants but he’s shooting just 53 percent at the rim and no high-usage point guard has had more of their shots blocked.

Schroder has a very low turnover rate (79th percentile) and very high assist rate (90th percentile). But Schroder ranks in the 40th percentile in assist rate-to-usage rate. Schroder is producing a lot of assists but some of that is a function of having the ball in his hands so often.

After nearly five full NBA seasons, Schroder has proven to be a pretty good but not great scorer. Again, there’s nothing wrong with that. But there would be a lot more value in it if not for Schroder’s defensive deficiencies.

To his credit, there are signs that Schroder’s defense has improved later in the season, and that’s been a factor in the team’s defense improving. Yet Schroder’s intensity comes and goes and, overall, he remains a defensive liability. That’s not enough to offset being a pretty good offensive player who carries a big share of the responsibility for scoring and play-making.

In sum, Schroder is performing like an average NBA starting point guard.

myAJC

[macd-gm]

He can improve some as a shooter. But we have to be realistic. He's a very good PG. His passing is decent, finishing at the rim...well, shooting sucks this year as does defense. He puts pressure on the D with his speed which is good but are we really expecting a big a jump in ability in any areas at this point? He's young but he's played a lot of nba games. If he improved his shooting it would help a lot and maybe it would open up more for his game but we've been expecting a big jump for him the last couple years but mostly we've gotten regression in shooting and defense.

Geez that sounds harsh. I like Dennis and recognize that he maybe the best player on this team but I'm not sure he's the long term answer because if he isn't going to be a great shooter/scorer then he needs to be a great facilitator. And we haven't even talked about leadership....

[hawkmanreturns]

Dennis is pretty much what he's going to be going forward and I'm fine with that. He's not a floor general and I highly doubt he will ever be a leader. But the things he can do are more than enough for him to be a competent starter. I had high hopes of him being Rajon Rondo with better scoring at first, but I've all but given up on that. But those expectations were unfair anyway.

[HMFFL]

He has room for improvement if he decides too.
Many things ever be there since they don't come naturally, but he can improve his shooting, and have positive gains in other stats if he dedicates himself. I'm not sure how long I expect him to have a future with us and I have mentioned here several times (Earlier in the season) that I hope his stay is only brief.

[jayu70]

Trending up in 3 of 4 categories.

Read on Twitter

[Jamaaliver]

Biggest Question for Atlanta Hawks to Answer During Rest of Season

Is Dennis Schroder a keeper?

The Atlanta Hawks' 24-year-old point guard ranks dead last in effective field-goal percentage among high-volume shooters this season, and he checks in second from the bottom in defensive Real Plus-Minus among point guards.

The answer to the Atlanta Hawks' key stretch-run question would seem to be a resounding "no."

Except...it's difficult to figure out which players might help you play winning basketball in the future when you're committed to losing in the present. It's like trying to project sprint speed by watching someone walk.

Schroder has real talents. He's uncommonly fast and fearless. The Hawks need to figure out how to weigh those gifts (and his capacity for improvement) against a pretty discouraging statistical profile. John Collins and Taurean Prince are two viable long-term building blocks. Is Schroder a third?

Bleacher Report

[jayu70]

Now an Owner...of his hometown bball club.

Dennis Schröder became the majority owner of Basketball Lowen Braunschweig, according to Braunschweiger Zeitung and SPONSORs. The point guard of the Hawks said in February that his goal was to become the co-owner of the German team and help the club to become of the top five in Bundesliga. – via Sportando

[Spud2nique]

Biggest Question for Atlanta Hawks to Answer During Rest of Season

Is Dennis Schroder a keeper?

The Atlanta Hawks' 24-year-old point guard ranks dead last in effective field-goal percentage among high-volume shooters this season, and he checks in second from the bottom in defensive Real Plus-Minus among point guards.

The answer to the Atlanta Hawks' key stretch-run question would seem to be a resounding "no."

Except...it's difficult to figure out which players might help you play winning basketball in the future when you're committed to losing in the present. It's like trying to project sprint speed by watching someone walk.

Schroder has real talents. He's uncommonly fast and fearless. The Hawks need to figure out how to weigh those gifts (and his capacity for improvement) against a pretty discouraging statistical profile. John Collins and Taurean Prince are two viable long-term building blocks. Is Schroder a third?

Bleacher Report

I don’t think he’s a keeper. Having said that, teams better come up with some good offers...no lowballing us..specially since we have control of his contract.

SERIOUS BUYERS ONLY!!! ( it’s like kg having that cul de sac garage sale..)

[Jamaaliver]

Signs of improvement for Schroder . . . except that 3-point shot

As Hawks point guard Dennis Schroder concludes his second season as a full-time starter, there are signs that he’s gotten better in several areas. But he’s been so much worse in one area that his overall improvement probably has been incremental rather than dramatic.

Schroder is shooting 29 percent on 3-pointers, the worst mark since his rookie season. He made 33.6 percent of his 3-point attempts over the past three seasons. Opponents seem willing to concede those shots while guarding against the best aspect of his offense, drives to the basket.

This season Schroder is shooting mid-range jumpers on 44 percent of his overall attempts, according to Cleaning the Glass, placing him in the 66th percentile among point guards.

But theoretically, if Schroder isn’t a 3-point threat then he can’t be as effective spreading the floor, leaving less room for drives and mid-range shots. And no point guard gets his shots blocked more frequently than Schroder.

Schroder has drastically reduced his turnover percentage to 11.6, the best mark of his career. Maybe Schroder hasn’t made the giant leap on offense that the Hawks and their supporters hoped for. But those are all positive developments since Schroder’s usage rate is much higher this season (33.4 vs. 30.4) and he’s had to adjust to being the focal point of opponent schemes.

Schroder’s defensive numbers were atrocious for the first two months, a bit better through February and now are better still. He now ranks about average in steals percentage for his position and slightly above average in offensive rebounding, according to CTG. He’s still sub par as a defensive rebounder but the improved production in steals and offensive rebounds matter.

It’s possible that Schroder may never be more than an average NBA point guard. That would be a good outcome for the Hawks, who selected Schroder with the 17th overall pick when he was 19 years old.

But maybe Schroder still can be more than that if he rediscovers his 3-point shot, improves his decision-making with the ball and manages to be at least a slightly below-average defender.

myAJC

[jayu70]

And right on cue...

Read on Twitter

[hawkmanreturns]

And right on cue...

Read on Twitter

I know this occurred before the season started, but this is an example of the poor decision making both on and off the court I posted about on the other forum. I hate trading off young assets during a rebuild, but if this sticks, the Hawks need to move him during the Draft for picks/young assets.

[jayu70]

And right on cue...

Read on Twitter

I know this occurred before the season started, but this is an example of the poor decision making both on and off the court I posted about on the other forum. I hate trading off young assets during a rebuild, but if this sticks, the Hawks need to move him during the Draft for picks/young assets.

Agreed on bad decision making. At some point growing up is in order.
But just like the Thabo and Mike Scott cases - I'll reserve judgement. (We've seen prosecutors over reach on charges)

[hawkmanreturns]

And right on cue...

Read on Twitter

I know this occurred before the season started, but this is an example of the poor decision making both on and off the court I posted about on the other forum. I hate trading off young assets during a rebuild, but if this sticks, the Hawks need to move him during the Draft for picks/young assets.

Agreed on bad decision making. At some point growing up is in order.
But just like the Thabo and Mike Scott cases - I'll reserve judgement. (We've seen prosecutors over reach on charges)

That's true. I certainly don't want to rush to judgment on this situation. But as the default leader of the Hawks, he should never be in that situation in the first place. He needs to be in his "goldmobile" speeding off from the scene at the first sign of trouble, not stomping a mud hole in someone's behind.

[MaceCase]

Unless there's conclusive evidence on Dennis the other 3 defendants will take the fall. Gotta protect the money man.

[Spud2nique]

I actually think Dennis has reached 90% of his potential, which in year 5 I would consider pretty much on track. His ppg go up every season but the other stat categories have all pretty much stayed the same. He also needs to get more steals per game. I mean with his speed, he should be getting 2 a game not 1. This shows me he’s kind of being lazy on defense. I seriously don’t think Bud is the type of guy to not let Dennis have the green light and go for some balls in the passing lanes.


Anyways, I don’t think Dennis is bad by any means. He actually has pretty good stats. I just feel like a player shows whether he’s “the guy” by year 5 (in most cases) and he doesn’t pass the eye test for me as the guy that’s going to lead us to the promise land.


Wait, were we still talking about this or has the thread changed to Dennis felony beating?

[DirtybirdGA]

The latter, I guess.

[macd-gm]

I actually think Dennis has reached 90% of his potential, which in year 5 I would consider pretty much on track. His ppg go up every season but the other stat categories have all pretty much stayed the same. He also needs to get more steals per game. I mean with his speed, he should be getting 2 a game not 1. This shows me he’s kind of being lazy on defense. I seriously don’t think Bud is the type of guy to not let Dennis have the green light and go for some balls in the passing lanes.


Anyways, I don’t think Dennis is bad by any means. He actually has pretty good stats. I just feel like a player shows whether he’s “the guy” by year 5 (in most cases) and he doesn’t pass the eye test for me as the guy that’s going to lead us to the promise land.


Wait, were we still talking about this or has the thread changed to Dennis felony beating?

I agree with this and also think it maybe time to sell high. I'd package him to move up in the draft for you know who.

As far as the felony i think it's a big deal. It's on video so we'll see who was doing the beating and kicking but i'm guessing it's all four of them. dumbasses.

[hawkmanreturns]

Dennis has officially been shut down for the remainder of the season. I don't like the timing between the potential felony charges and him being out for the remainder of the season due to an "ankle sprain". This isn't a coincidence.

[HMFFL]

Dennis has officially been shut down for the remainder of the season. I don't like the timing between the potential felony charges and him being out for the remainder of the season due to an "ankle sprain". This isn't a coincidence.

Good point.
It's only a matter of time before everything gets handled and we'll see what the outcome is of his legal issue. I wish DS nothing but the best!

[Jamaaliver]

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