The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[Dundalis]

How can a guy with a straight face (an assumption of course) continually put out post after post that contradict each other, and actually pretend like he has any insight whatsoever?

Team are just scared of his size so they over help on him, but he almost always finishes with his right and is not a great leaper when attacking the rim so a single defender is all you need to make him inefficient.

Teams are scared of his size, so they over help on him he says. Why would teams be scared of his size if there is nothing to be scared of? Teams are better than they've ever been at playing to opposition weaknesses. They certainly don't typically invent opposition strengths when there are none.

Once teams realize he is not LeBron and there is no need to pack so many players in the paint that advantage will be gone. Chandler alone has stopped a couple of his drives because he couldnt push him aside due to his bulk. Plumlee also stopped a couple of his drives. There is absolutely no need to have 2 help defenders when Simmons drives.

Aledgedly teams could easily defend him with one defender. Chandler has stopped some of his drives, so has Plumlee. Announcement to NBA teams, get your bigs and have them guard Simmons on the perimeter! No help defense. One on one only! That's Simmons locked up.

Simmons stats are inflated by having the ball so much, being a pass first guy, not having a scoring load, having a rebounding role and playing in front of weak backups.

So basically just about every pure point guard to ever play the game of basketball is overrated.

Simmons is a good player but too limited. If he gets a jumper and starts finishing with his left hand he will be a much better player than he is now and then we can compare him to Mithcell.

Compared to Mitchell, as opposed to those two things literally holding him back from being the best player in the league.

Last game, for example, he was completely passive, yet his stats look good. 11 assists yet he created maybe 3-4 plays. The rest was passing to shooter without creating much advantage.

Ok it was not 3-4 but 4-5 plays. And the rest 6-7?

Back tracks over off handed comments like Simmons only had 3-4 good plays last game...oh wait, maybe it was 4-5, or was it 5-6? I don't know the facts but I'll say them anyway if they support my argument! And I'll go off on tangents about how some facts are facts and some facts are not facts. But I knows all the good facts!

Ok. Maybe i am underrating the impact of drive and kick players. If people think that it is Simmons' driving that makes Saric, Cowington, Redick and others shoot significantly better than they would by able to in other systems with average PGs so be it.

Apparently all the 76ers need is an average point guard to replace what Simmons is doing and all these Philli guys could produce what they are doing now. Wait, didn't they have an average point guard last season? What happened again? Oh. Never mind. Alatan knows the good facts!

[cl2117]

Gary Payton's top 5 defensive guards.

1. Paul
2. Beverly
3. Smart
4. Rondo
5. Ball!!

You guys that dont watch the Lakers dont see it but Lonzo has been the defensive resurgence for the Lakers.

Watch on YouTube

Zo's defense is legit and already elite. I believe he's #1 in DRPM among all point guards right now, not just rookies. I know all people focus on is scoring but damn he's been fun to watch. Great rookie class.

Frank Ntilikina has been flying way too far under the radar for his defensive impact as well. He's rated out as the #2 PnR defender in the league right now (he was number 1 for a while).

He's not filling up the boxscore elsewhere like Lonzo, but he's definitely got some serious potential to be a nasty defender at the very least.

[HartfordWhalers]

Zo's defense is legit and already elite. I believe he's #1 in DRPM among all point guards right now, not just rookies. I know all people focus on is scoring but damn he's been fun to watch. Great rookie class.

RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WINS
1 Dejounte Murray SA 74 21.0 -1.83 3.72 1.89 4.84
2 Tyus Jones MIN 75 17.6 2.39 2.55 4.94 6.65
3 Lonzo Ball LAL 51 34.4 -1.43 2.11 0.68 4.30
4 Ben Simmons PHI 72 34.2 1.11 2.10 3.21 10.13
5 Jrue Holiday NO 74 36.4 1.44 1.59 3.03 10.66

Ball is essentially tied with Simmons in third/fourth, with Dejounte Murray and Tyus Jones ahead. The top 5 have overall rpm from ~5 to two at 3, one at 2, and then Ball at 0.7.

Worth pointing out that RPM is noisy, and sometimes you get results like Tyus where it might be more a statement on just how much Teague sucks at defense.

[Unbreakable99]

Gary Payton's top 5 defensive guards.

1. Paul
2. Beverly
3. Smart
4. Rondo
5. Ball!!

You guys that dont watch the Lakers dont see it but Lonzo has been the defensive resurgence for the Lakers.

Watch on YouTube

Gary Payton is on crack if he thinks Ball is a better defensive guard than Simmons. Simmons is one of the best defensive guards in the league. Easily top 5. This isn’t a knock on Ball because he is pretty good on D but he’s not better than Simmons.

[Hipster Doofus]

He forgot and turned the glove inside out.

[sunevisions]

I know the rules of Rookie.

But Mavs Coach response ‘isn’t really a Rookie’ is really interesting, when talking about Simmons.

I am not saying Simmons doesn’t worth to be ROY, I just want to mention some voters may be discount Simmons chance coz of his special status.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865697079/Jazz-notes-Donovan-Mitchell-claims-a-lot-of-greatness-in-photo-with-Stockton-Malone-Eaton-and.html

[levon]

Zo's defense is legit and already elite. I believe he's #1 in DRPM among all point guards right now, not just rookies. I know all people focus on is scoring but damn he's been fun to watch. Great rookie class.

RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WINS
1 Dejounte Murray SA 74 21.0 -1.83 3.72 1.89 4.84
2 Tyus Jones MIN 75 17.6 2.39 2.55 4.94 6.65
3 Lonzo Ball LAL 51 34.4 -1.43 2.11 0.68 4.30
4 Ben Simmons PHI 72 34.2 1.11 2.10 3.21 10.13
5 Jrue Holiday NO 74 36.4 1.44 1.59 3.03 10.66

Ball is essentially tied with Simmons in third/fourth, with Dejounte Murray and Tyus Jones ahead. The top 5 have overall rpm from ~5 to two at 3, one at 2, and then Ball at 0.7.

Worth pointing out that RPM is noisy, and sometimes you get results like Tyus where it might be more a statement on just how much Teague sucks at defense.

Gotta account for MPG, although I have no doubt Murray would be a great PG defender even when given the minutes.

[CoreyGallagher]

I know the rules of Rookie.

But Mavs Coach response ‘isn’t really a Rookie’ is really interesting, when talking about Simmons.

I am not saying Simmons doesn’t worth to be ROY, I just want to mention some voters may be discount Simmons chance coz of his special status.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865697079/Jazz-notes-Donovan-Mitchell-claims-a-lot-of-greatness-in-photo-with-Stockton-Malone-Eaton-and.html

Meanwhile, Blake Griffin won the award unanimously a few seasons ago. I wonder why it didn’t matter then.

[RB34]

I know the rules of Rookie.

But Mavs Coach response ‘isn’t really a Rookie’ is really interesting, when talking about Simmons.

I am not saying Simmons doesn’t worth to be ROY, I just want to mention some voters may be discount Simmons chance coz of his special status.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865697079/Jazz-notes-Donovan-Mitchell-claims-a-lot-of-greatness-in-photo-with-Stockton-Malone-Eaton-and.html

Meanwhile, Blake Griffin won the award unanimously a few seasons ago. I wonder why it didn’t matter then.

Because Simmons is going to wear Green & Gold when the Olympics rolls around.

[QPR]

I could see Ben leading the league in assists as early as next season.

And of course people are only making a big deal about rookie status because Mitchell might miss out. It wasn't an issue when Griffin won it, and I doubt it would have been an issue last season if Embiid played 10 more games and won it, because they were easily the best players eligible. But now suddenly it's a problem?

If anyone votes for Mitchell on the basis that Simmons was drafted a year earlier, then they shouldn't really be voting.

[Unbreakable99]

I know the rules of Rookie.

But Mavs Coach response ‘isn’t really a Rookie’ is really interesting, when talking about Simmons.

I am not saying Simmons doesn’t worth to be ROY, I just want to mention some voters may be discount Simmons chance coz of his special status.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865697079/Jazz-notes-Donovan-Mitchell-claims-a-lot-of-greatness-in-photo-with-Stockton-Malone-Eaton-and.html

Meanwhile, Blake Griffin won the award unanimously a few seasons ago. I wonder why it didn’t matter then.

Simmons hate.

[dautjazz]

It's remarkable how overrated and watered down the triple double stat has become.

And yet DM can't get one. Odd.

I think Stockton only had one or two in a 19yr career. Malone I think had 3 or 4. Has Simmons been much better than these two combined?

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[Black Mage]

It isn't Simmons hate. Human nature is to look for reasons, whether rational or not, to support their personal opinion.

For anyone who loves DM, and he certainly deserves the love, those folks will want to find reasons to knock Simmons to support their opinion that DM is ROY.

Some will turn to 4th quarter performance, others the ability to shoot and points scored and still others will point to this true rookie argument.

Whatever the reasons we all do it to try and prop up our own opinions. I will say that we also tend to grasp at stretches in rational thought the more we feel our opinion is threatened.

[Black Mage]

It's remarkable how overrated and watered down the triple double stat has become.

And yet DM can't get one. Odd.

I think Stockton only had one or two in a 19yr career. Malone I think had 3 or 4. Has Simmons been much better than these two combined?

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Please follow the context of the topic. Someone tried to suggest that triple doubles don't mean much because they happen a lot. My point was if it is so easy, why hasn't DM gotten one.

[CoreyGallagher]

It's remarkable how overrated and watered down the triple double stat has become.

Perhaps overall, primarily due to Westbrook, but the 76ers are 8-2 (and +98 net) in games Simmons gets a triple double in. +10 in three statistical categories by a single player will usually be conducive to winning.

Not even considering that recently he's been pulled from games well on his way to triple doubles because they're blowing out the other team.

[3toheadmelo]

dsj has quietly been good as of recent. shut down fox last night. shutting down lonzo right now

[Alex DeLarge]

How did the fact that Gary Payton named Rondo as the 4th best defensive guard in the L escape everyone's attention?

Rondo is an abysmal defender.

[Stonk]

Simmons could put up a lot more points if he took just under 30 shots a game too.

[draftnightsuit]

Over the past 5 games, Donovan Mitchell is shooting 39.2% from the field while jacking up 25 shots a night.

He’s a certified gunner.

[postaboy84]

Gary Payton's top 5 defensive guards.

1. Paul
2. Beverly
3. Smart
4. Rondo
5. Ball!!

You guys that dont watch the Lakers dont see it but Lonzo has been the defensive resurgence for the Lakers.

Watch on YouTube

Gary Payton is on crack if he thinks Ball is a better defensive guard than Simmons. Simmons is one of the best defensive guards in the league. Easily top 5. This isn’t a knock on Ball because he is pretty good on D but he’s not better than Simmons.

Stop being a homer and ball hater. Simmons ain’t no better defender than Ball.

Another thing Simmons ain’t a guard. He’s a forward.


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