Game 76: Indiana Pacers (44-31) @ Sacramento Kings (24-51) - 10:00 PM ET

[ducler]

[kalenclayton]

Young Kings are playing really well tonight. If this is what we are to expect next season, I think we will be in for a treat.

[LightTheBeam]

Young Kings are playing really well tonight. If this is what we are to expect next season, I think we will be in for a treat.

Ya, buddy is clutch. This kid is going to be a star. It's amazing how much smarter he's become. I think he's just needed time to acclimate, I know he's older but he's still a sophomore. He's a good defender, elite shooter, and has started to pick his spots so much better.

Too many turnovers but glad he's getting assists now.

Nice shot DIPO!

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

[kalenclayton]

Young Kings are playing really well tonight. If this is what we are to expect next season, I think we will be in for a treat.

Ya, buddy is clutch. This kid is going to be a star. It's amazing how much smarter he's become. I think he's just needed time to acclimate, I know he's older but he's still a sophomore. He's a good defender, elite shooter, and has started to pick his spots so much better.

Too many turnovers but glad he's getting assists now.

Nice shot DIPO!

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

I agree that Buddy is gonna be REALLY good. I don’t know about star, but very, very good for sure.

[benchmobbin02]

They gave us a scare but the Tank Party is still going!

[City of Trees]

Young Kings are playing really well tonight. If this is what we are to expect next season, I think we will be in for a treat.

Ya, buddy is clutch. This kid is going to be a star. It's amazing how much smarter he's become. I think he's just needed time to acclimate, I know he's older but he's still a sophomore. He's a good defender, elite shooter, and has started to pick his spots so much better.

Too many turnovers but glad he's getting assists now.

Nice shot DIPO!

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

Praise Joerger and his staff.

[kalenclayton]

Young Kings are playing really well tonight. If this is what we are to expect next season, I think we will be in for a treat.

Ya, buddy is clutch. This kid is going to be a star. It's amazing how much smarter he's become. I think he's just needed time to acclimate, I know he's older but he's still a sophomore. He's a good defender, elite shooter, and has started to pick his spots so much better.

Too many turnovers but glad he's getting assists now.

Nice shot DIPO!

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

Praise Joerger and his staff.

I actually agree with you. I know most of the people here don’t like Joerger, but I think he’s worked out for our young guys. They’ve all gotten better under his tutelage.

[codydaze]

Ya, buddy is clutch. This kid is going to be a star. It's amazing how much smarter he's become. I think he's just needed time to acclimate, I know he's older but he's still a sophomore. He's a good defender, elite shooter, and has started to pick his spots so much better.

Too many turnovers but glad he's getting assists now.

Nice shot DIPO!

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

Praise Joerger and his staff.

I actually agree with you. I know most of the people here don’t like Joerger, but I think he’s worked out for our young guys. They’ve all gotten better under his tutelage.

Right there with you guys. I know everyone is calling for his head this year but I think firing him would be a huge mistake. I think we'll turn some heads next year with our play, I don't think playoffs but I can see 35 wins and having a Lakers-esque type season.

[kalenclayton]

Praise Joerger and his staff.

I actually agree with you. I know most of the people here don’t like Joerger, but I think he’s worked out for our young guys. They’ve all gotten better under his tutelage.

Right there with you guys. I know everyone is calling for his head this year but I think firing him would be a huge mistake. I think we'll turn some heads next year with our play, I don't think playoffs but I can see 35 wins and having a Lakers-esque type season.

One thing that people really aren’t mentioning enough is that the chemistry with this team is so high! Each player likes each other and the support is top notch. It’s absolutely refreshing. That environment is perfect for internal rivalries that make each player better. Call them friendly rivalries.

[SacKingZZZ]

Young Kings are playing really well tonight. If this is what we are to expect next season, I think we will be in for a treat.

Ya, buddy is clutch. This kid is going to be a star. It's amazing how much smarter he's become. I think he's just needed time to acclimate, I know he's older but he's still a sophomore. He's a good defender, elite shooter, and has started to pick his spots so much better.

Too many turnovers but glad he's getting assists now.

Nice shot DIPO!

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

Praise Joerger and his staff.

Now the next step is to get him real NBA minutes on a consistent basis. Buddy is looking like he could be one of those 25-5-5 level players in the right role.

[SacKingZZZ]

Praise Joerger and his staff.

I actually agree with you. I know most of the people here don’t like Joerger, but I think he’s worked out for our young guys. They’ve all gotten better under his tutelage.

Right there with you guys. I know everyone is calling for his head this year but I think firing him would be a huge mistake. I think we'll turn some heads next year with our play, I don't think playoffs but I can see 35 wins and having a Lakers-esque type season.

The Kings have looked promising all year when playing to the strengths of their young talent. If that's where the train heads then Joerger has a chance of sticking it through until wins and losses start mattering. Then it's a different type of evaluation.

[BoogieTime]

Ya, buddy is clutch. This kid is going to be a star. It's amazing how much smarter he's become. I think he's just needed time to acclimate, I know he's older but he's still a sophomore. He's a good defender, elite shooter, and has started to pick his spots so much better.

Too many turnovers but glad he's getting assists now.

Nice shot DIPO!

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

Praise Joerger and his staff.

I actually agree with you. I know most of the people here don’t like Joerger, but I think he’s worked out for our young guys. They’ve all gotten better under his tutelage.

I don’t know about this.. Hield has gotten better, yes. WCS? Skal? Fox? Has Jackson proven anything? Hield can’t be the only one. Our youth hasn’t matured at the pace I’d like

[kalenclayton]

Praise Joerger and his staff.

I actually agree with you. I know most of the people here don’t like Joerger, but I think he’s worked out for our young guys. They’ve all gotten better under his tutelage.

I don’t know about this.. Hield has gotten better, yes. WCS? Skal? Fox? Has Jackson proven anything? Hield can’t be the only one. Our youth hasn’t matured at the pace I’d like

I don’t understand why you want this all in a rush. This is the first year of the rebuild. The players haven’t matured enough? Without talking about rookies (only college to compare; not the same game), I would say that each player has grown under Joerger.

Hield has improved just about every facet of his game. His biggest improvements have come from defensive positioning (on-ball) and court vision.

Willie has become a more well-rounded player. That was something all Kings fans hoped he would be. Unfortunately his defense was sacrificed a bit, but he is becoming the player he wanted to become.

Skal has improved from last year to this year. He hasn’t broke out in the way that Kings fans wanted him to, but has improved no doubt. His biggest improvements have been overall awareness, box outs, help defense, and shot selection. He can absolutely improve more in each of those areas, but you can’t say he didn’t improve.

As for rookies, all 4 look good to great:
Bogi has been the best of the four. He has looked absolutely fantastic and has come in as a very well rounded player.
Fox has had his ups and downs, but that was expected. He just turned freaking 20. He has flashed a ton of great attributes. He has a ton to work on, but man is his career looking promising.
You mentioned Justin Jackson in your response. I don’t know if you are watching games or just looking at the box score, but Jackson has proven that he’s a NBA player for sure. Did you expect him to be a star or something? He wasn’t projected to be that caliber and I don’t ever see that happening. He has proven that he can guard the perimeter (on-ball), rebound, hit floaters, make sound decisions with cuts and passes, and be a good teammate. That’s more than I expected this season and I was a fan of him in college. Does he have things he can improve on? Absolutely! I just find it ridiculous and undeserving that you would question if he’s proven anything. This isn’t Bruno Coboclo we are talking about.

Mason has looked exactly like the player I thought he would be coming out of college: a spark plug PG who can make a lot of correct reads (offense and defense), make buckets, and play with a lot of heart. His size has hurt him as expected, but he still fights through every screen and doesn’t get intimidated. I don’t know what more you could ask for. Dude was a high 2nd rounder. He’s proven to be a NBA player.

[BoogieTime]

I actually agree with you. I know most of the people here don’t like Joerger, but I think he’s worked out for our young guys. They’ve all gotten better under his tutelage.

I don’t know about this.. Hield has gotten better, yes. WCS? Skal? Fox? Has Jackson proven anything? Hield can’t be the only one. Our youth hasn’t matured at the pace I’d like

I don’t understand why you want this all in a rush. This is the first year of the rebuild. The players haven’t matured enough? Without talking about rookies (only college to compare; not the same game), I would say that each player has grown under Joerger.

Hield has improved just about every facet of his game. His biggest improvements have come from defensive positioning (on-ball) and court vision.

Willie has become a more well-rounded player. That was something all Kings fans hoped he would be. Unfortunately his defense was sacrificed a bit, but he is becoming the player he wanted to become.

Skal has improved from last year to this year. He hasn’t broke out in the way that Kings fans wanted him to, but has improved no doubt. His biggest improvements have been overall awareness, box outs, help defense, and shot selection. He can absolutely improve more in each of those areas, but you can’t say he didn’t improve.

As for rookies, all 4 look good to great:
Bogi has been the best of the four. He has looked absolutely fantastic and has come in as a very well rounded player.
Fox has had his ups and downs, but that was expected. He just turned freaking 20. He has flashed a ton of great attributes. He has a ton to work on, but man is his career looking promising.
You mentioned Justin Jackson in your response. I don’t know if you are watching games or just looking at the box score, but Jackson has proven that he’s a NBA player for sure. Did you expect him to be a star or something? He wasn’t projected to be that caliber and I don’t ever see that happening. He has proven that he can guard the perimeter (on-ball), rebound, hit floaters, make sound decisions with cuts and passes, and be a good teammate. That’s more than I expected this season and I was a fan of him in college. Does he have things he can improve on? Absolutely! I just find it ridiculous and undeserving that you would question if he’s proven anything. This isn’t Bruno Coboclo we are talking about.

Mason has looked exactly like the player I thought he would be coming out of college: a spark plug PG who can make a lot of correct reads (offense and defense), make buckets, and play with a lot of heart. His size has hurt him as expected, but he still fights through every screen and doesn’t get intimidated. I don’t know what more you could ask for. Dude was a high 2nd rounder. He’s proven to be a NBA player.

Jackson is an older rookie, and best case scenario, as the 10th pick, he came in and established himself as an unquestioned starter. Hasn’t happened.

Fox has atrocious advanced stats, and has looked terrible lately, and inconsistent for most the year.

WCS looks like a bust IMO. Skal showed upside last year and hasn’t evolved this year like we wanted.

Buddy, IMO, is literally the only young player who has improved to a level we can be proud of as of now.

That’s not to say this won’t change, or that we shouldn’t have hope for Fox/Skal/JJ etc Just that we as Kings fans are having to put up with youth not impressing as of now, as seemingly always.

Best case scenario WCS actually looked like a future piece, Skal/JJ quality starters, and Fox a star at 5th pick. It hasn’t happened, yet. Any of it sans Buddy

[kalenclayton]

I don’t know about this.. Hield has gotten better, yes. WCS? Skal? Fox? Has Jackson proven anything? Hield can’t be the only one. Our youth hasn’t matured at the pace I’d like

I don’t understand why you want this all in a rush. This is the first year of the rebuild. The players haven’t matured enough? Without talking about rookies (only college to compare; not the same game), I would say that each player has grown under Joerger.

Hield has improved just about every facet of his game. His biggest improvements have come from defensive positioning (on-ball) and court vision.

Willie has become a more well-rounded player. That was something all Kings fans hoped he would be. Unfortunately his defense was sacrificed a bit, but he is becoming the player he wanted to become.

Skal has improved from last year to this year. He hasn’t broke out in the way that Kings fans wanted him to, but has improved no doubt. His biggest improvements have been overall awareness, box outs, help defense, and shot selection. He can absolutely improve more in each of those areas, but you can’t say he didn’t improve.

As for rookies, all 4 look good to great:
Bogi has been the best of the four. He has looked absolutely fantastic and has come in as a very well rounded player.
Fox has had his ups and downs, but that was expected. He just turned freaking 20. He has flashed a ton of great attributes. He has a ton to work on, but man is his career looking promising.
You mentioned Justin Jackson in your response. I don’t know if you are watching games or just looking at the box score, but Jackson has proven that he’s a NBA player for sure. Did you expect him to be a star or something? He wasn’t projected to be that caliber and I don’t ever see that happening. He has proven that he can guard the perimeter (on-ball), rebound, hit floaters, make sound decisions with cuts and passes, and be a good teammate. That’s more than I expected this season and I was a fan of him in college. Does he have things he can improve on? Absolutely! I just find it ridiculous and undeserving that you would question if he’s proven anything. This isn’t Bruno Coboclo we are talking about.

Mason has looked exactly like the player I thought he would be coming out of college: a spark plug PG who can make a lot of correct reads (offense and defense), make buckets, and play with a lot of heart. His size has hurt him as expected, but he still fights through every screen and doesn’t get intimidated. I don’t know what more you could ask for. Dude was a high 2nd rounder. He’s proven to be a NBA player.

Jackson is an older rookie, and best case scenario, as the 10th pick, he came in and established himself as an unquestioned starter. Hasn’t happened.

Fox has atrocious advanced stats, and has looked terrible lately, and inconsistent for most the year.

WCS looks like a bust IMO. Skal showed upside last year and hasn’t evolved this year like we wanted.

Buddy, IMO, is literally the only young player who has improved to a level we can be proud of as of now.

That’s not to say this won’t change, or that we shouldn’t have hope for Fox/Skal/JJ etc Just that we as Kings fans are having to put up with youth not impressing as of now, as seemingly always.

Best case scenario WCS actually looked like a future piece, Skal/JJ quality starters, and Fox a star at 5th pick. It hasn’t happened, yet. Any of it sans Buddy

It seems that you had best case scenario expectations for each player. That’s a tad unfair, don’t ya think?

First off, Jackson was not the 10th pick. We traded that pick to get 15 and 20. He was 15th. Sure it would’ve been nice to stay at 10 and draft Donovan Mitchell, but that is hindsight talking. He was not the unquestionable rookie in the draft at the time. So Vlade moved down in a move that looks pretty smart at the moment. He got two guys he believed in instead. Let’s take a look at the players selected 10-15:

10 (Zach Collins): not an “unquestioned starter” (started one game). He has shown some stretch big potential, but he is still going to be a project. This was expected.

11 (Malik Monk): struggled to adapt to the NBA game. Will probably be fine. Not a starter.

12 (Luke Kennard): has had his ups and downs. Not an unquestioned starter (started 5 games). He’s caught fire as of recent. He will be fine. Who knows if he will be a starter to come or a good bench shooter.

13 (Donovan Mitchell): first “unquestioned starter” so far. This was NOT the expectation when he was drafted. He has exceeded all expectations and looks like a fantastic young player. Love the kid.

14 (Bam Adebayo): not an “unquestioned starter”. He looks like he will be the energy big we expected, but he starts when Whiteside doesn’t. Good player. Still proving stuff.

15 (our Justin Jackson): so you can argue that Justin is an older rookie. That’s fine, but watching his game tape shouldn’t have told you that he was going to be the “unquestioned starter” at the 3 for the Kings. That was going to be huge if he could pull that off, but that is a lofty expectation and I don’t think a lot of us were expecting that. I personally wanted OG Anunoby at 15, but Vlade wanted Jackson. I was still relatively high on Jackson so I didn’t care. He has actually exceeded my expectations. I think you had too high of expectations for him to begin with. He has proven to be a player who won’t hurt you at either end. His long ball is inconsistent, but I would say that he doesn’t really have any glaring weaknesses. He makes correct reads and has shown he can guard some 2s, most 3s, and small ball 4s. What more do you want?

——————————————

I will agree with you that Fox’s advanced stats don’t look good. I expected them to be down to begin with, but they’ve turned out to be a little worse. A lot of advanced stats value the most efficient shots (3s and layups/dunks) the most. Unfortunately, Fox hasn’t been aggressive enough driving to get his layups and his 3 ball is inconsistent. Thankfully both of those things are correctable. His shot looks fine and we know he can drive the ball with ease. He just needs work on breakdowns. He has had a bad stretch of games recently, but he has shown more good than bad this season. You should’ve expected this. PG tends to have the biggest learning curve when it comes to positions. Couple that with the fact that the guy wasn’t a 3pt shooter coming in and you can see that he would have a tough transition. Relax. Most rookies don’t pan out. It looks like we have two who will, and I haven’t even talked about Mason and Bogi in depth. All four rooks have turned out to be NBA players and ones who are improving with every game.

——————————————

Willie doesn’t look like a 6th pick. I’ll give you that, but he was a great pick when we picked him because we had Boogie. I would rather have him over who was a possibility at the time (Mudiay, Stanley Johnson). He hasn’t been molded into rim runner we expected him to be, but I don’t believe that is Joerger’s fault. It looked like that’s what Joerger wanted him to be, but Willie wanted other things. If you listen to Willie in interviews, he talks about being more of an offensive guy. It seems like coaches have tried to get through to him, but it just hasn’t happened. It’s frustrating, but it happens. He’s still proven to be a NBA player, even if he wasn’t the one we expected.

Skal has been inconsistent, but has still shown flashes. It’s the same as last season. We as fans built him up in our heads to be the savior. That’s a bit unfair and I accept that.

——————————————

It seems like you are just focusing on the negatives here. Take a step back and realize that this team’s future is the best it’s looked since our Webber-Bibby-Peja-Funderburke(lol) days. Each player is getting better. When you focus on the best case scenario and nothing else, you are bound to be disappointed.

[BoogieTime]

I don’t understand why you want this all in a rush. This is the first year of the rebuild. The players haven’t matured enough? Without talking about rookies (only college to compare; not the same game), I would say that each player has grown under Joerger.

Hield has improved just about every facet of his game. His biggest improvements have come from defensive positioning (on-ball) and court vision.

Willie has become a more well-rounded player. That was something all Kings fans hoped he would be. Unfortunately his defense was sacrificed a bit, but he is becoming the player he wanted to become.

Skal has improved from last year to this year. He hasn’t broke out in the way that Kings fans wanted him to, but has improved no doubt. His biggest improvements have been overall awareness, box outs, help defense, and shot selection. He can absolutely improve more in each of those areas, but you can’t say he didn’t improve.

As for rookies, all 4 look good to great:
Bogi has been the best of the four. He has looked absolutely fantastic and has come in as a very well rounded player.
Fox has had his ups and downs, but that was expected. He just turned freaking 20. He has flashed a ton of great attributes. He has a ton to work on, but man is his career looking promising.
You mentioned Justin Jackson in your response. I don’t know if you are watching games or just looking at the box score, but Jackson has proven that he’s a NBA player for sure. Did you expect him to be a star or something? He wasn’t projected to be that caliber and I don’t ever see that happening. He has proven that he can guard the perimeter (on-ball), rebound, hit floaters, make sound decisions with cuts and passes, and be a good teammate. That’s more than I expected this season and I was a fan of him in college. Does he have things he can improve on? Absolutely! I just find it ridiculous and undeserving that you would question if he’s proven anything. This isn’t Bruno Coboclo we are talking about.

Mason has looked exactly like the player I thought he would be coming out of college: a spark plug PG who can make a lot of correct reads (offense and defense), make buckets, and play with a lot of heart. His size has hurt him as expected, but he still fights through every screen and doesn’t get intimidated. I don’t know what more you could ask for. Dude was a high 2nd rounder. He’s proven to be a NBA player.

Jackson is an older rookie, and best case scenario, as the 10th pick, he came in and established himself as an unquestioned starter. Hasn’t happened.

Fox has atrocious advanced stats, and has looked terrible lately, and inconsistent for most the year.

WCS looks like a bust IMO. Skal showed upside last year and hasn’t evolved this year like we wanted.

Buddy, IMO, is literally the only young player who has improved to a level we can be proud of as of now.

That’s not to say this won’t change, or that we shouldn’t have hope for Fox/Skal/JJ etc Just that we as Kings fans are having to put up with youth not impressing as of now, as seemingly always.

Best case scenario WCS actually looked like a future piece, Skal/JJ quality starters, and Fox a star at 5th pick. It hasn’t happened, yet. Any of it sans Buddy

It seems that you had best case scenario expectations for each player. That’s a tad unfair, don’t ya think?

First off, Jackson was not the 10th pick. We traded that pick to get 15 and 20. He was 15th. Sure it would’ve been nice to stay at 10 and draft Donovan Mitchell, but that is hindsight talking. He was not the unquestionable rookie in the draft at the time. So Vlade moved down in a move that looks pretty smart at the moment. He got two guys he believed in instead. Let’s take a look at the players selected 10-15:

10 (Zach Collins): not an “unquestioned starter” (started one game). He has shown some stretch big potential, but he is still going to be a project. This was expected.

11 (Malik Monk): struggled to adapt to the NBA game. Will probably be fine. Not a starter.

12 (Luke Kennard): has had his ups and downs. Not an unquestioned starter (started 5 games). He’s caught fire as of recent. He will be fine. Who knows if he will be a starter to come or a good bench shooter.

13 (Donovan Mitchell): first “unquestioned starter” so far. This was NOT the expectation when he was drafted. He has exceeded all expectations and looks like a fantastic young player. Love the kid.

14 (Bam Adebayo): not an “unquestioned starter”. He looks like he will be the energy big we expected, but he starts when Whiteside doesn’t. Good player. Still proving stuff.

15 (our Justin Jackson): so you can argue that Justin is an older rookie. That’s fine, but watching his game tape shouldn’t have told you that he was going to be the “unquestioned starter” at the 3 for the Kings. That was going to be huge if he could pull that off, but that is a lofty expectation and I don’t think a lot of us were expecting that. I personally wanted OG Anunoby at 15, but Vlade wanted Jackson. I was still relatively high on Jackson so I didn’t care. He has actually exceeded my expectations. I think you had too high of expectations for him to begin with. He has proven to be a player who won’t hurt you at either end. His long ball is inconsistent, but I would say that he doesn’t really have any glaring weaknesses. He makes correct reads and has shown he can guard some 2s, most 3s, and small ball 4s. What more do you want?

——————————————

I will agree with you that Fox’s advanced stats don’t look good. I expected them to be down to begin with, but they’ve turned out to be a little worse. A lot of advanced stats value the most efficient shots (3s and layups/dunks) the most. Unfortunately, Fox hasn’t been aggressive enough driving to get his layups and his 3 ball is inconsistent. Thankfully both of those things are correctable. His shot looks fine and we know he can drive the ball with ease. He just needs work on breakdowns. He has had a bad stretch of games recently, but he has shown more good than bad this season. You should’ve expected this. PG tends to have the biggest learning curve when it comes to positions. Couple that with the fact that the guy wasn’t a 3pt shooter coming in and you can see that he would have a tough transition. Relax. Most rookies don’t pan out. It looks like we have two who will, and I haven’t even talked about Mason and Bogi in depth. All four rooks have turned out to be NBA players and ones who are improving with every game.

——————————————

Willie doesn’t look like a 6th pick. I’ll give you that, but he was a great pick when we picked him because we had Boogie. I would rather have him over who was a possibility at the time (Mudiay, Stanley Johnson). He hasn’t been molded into rim runner we expected him to be, but I don’t believe that is Joerger’s fault. It looked like that’s what Joerger wanted him to be, but Willie wanted other things. If you listen to Willie in interviews, he talks about being more of an offensive guy. It seems like coaches have tried to get through to him, but it just hasn’t happened. It’s frustrating, but it happens. He’s still proven to be a NBA player, even if he wasn’t the one we expected.

Skal has been inconsistent, but has still shown flashes. It’s the same as last season. We as fans built him up in our heads to be the savior. That’s a bit unfair and I accept that.

——————————————

It seems like you are just focusing on the negatives here. Take a step back and realize that this team’s future is the best it’s looked since our Webber-Bibby-Peja-Funderburke(lol) days. Each player is getting better. When you focus on the best case scenario and nothing else, you are bound to be disappointed.

I don’t know if I’m thinking of “best case scenario” as opposed to successful one. I don’t think this franchise can withstand not having a starter amongst JJ/Skal/WCS. Can’t withstand that. One of them, if not more, has to be on a trajectory of being a quality starter. Before the season I would have hoped for two. I’m giving it time, but..

Fox.. Him not being aggressive in getting layups as you say can be the recurring problem? Does he have motor issues? That’s the question that looms now. But he’s been very far removed from what he provided the first few weeks to start the season. And the player that started the season is what this franchise needs/needed

On top pick of roster issues, we still have an unqualified GM in Divac, not a full compliment of draft picks, and a reputation that minimizes our chances of being players in FA (could take some time to get that on track)

I appreciate your optimism, but I still see a lot of nonsense.

[LightTheBeam]

Jackson is an older rookie, and best case scenario, as the 10th pick, he came in and established himself as an unquestioned starter. Hasn’t happened.

Fox has atrocious advanced stats, and has looked terrible lately, and inconsistent for most the year.

WCS looks like a bust IMO. Skal showed upside last year and hasn’t evolved this year like we wanted.

Buddy, IMO, is literally the only young player who has improved to a level we can be proud of as of now.

That’s not to say this won’t change, or that we shouldn’t have hope for Fox/Skal/JJ etc Just that we as Kings fans are having to put up with youth not impressing as of now, as seemingly always.

Best case scenario WCS actually looked like a future piece, Skal/JJ quality starters, and Fox a star at 5th pick. It hasn’t happened, yet. Any of it sans Buddy

It seems that you had best case scenario expectations for each player. That’s a tad unfair, don’t ya think?

First off, Jackson was not the 10th pick. We traded that pick to get 15 and 20. He was 15th. Sure it would’ve been nice to stay at 10 and draft Donovan Mitchell, but that is hindsight talking. He was not the unquestionable rookie in the draft at the time. So Vlade moved down in a move that looks pretty smart at the moment. He got two guys he believed in instead. Let’s take a look at the players selected 10-15:

10 (Zach Collins): not an “unquestioned starter” (started one game). He has shown some stretch big potential, but he is still going to be a project. This was expected.

11 (Malik Monk): struggled to adapt to the NBA game. Will probably be fine. Not a starter.

12 (Luke Kennard): has had his ups and downs. Not an unquestioned starter (started 5 games). He’s caught fire as of recent. He will be fine. Who knows if he will be a starter to come or a good bench shooter.

13 (Donovan Mitchell): first “unquestioned starter” so far. This was NOT the expectation when he was drafted. He has exceeded all expectations and looks like a fantastic young player. Love the kid.

14 (Bam Adebayo): not an “unquestioned starter”. He looks like he will be the energy big we expected, but he starts when Whiteside doesn’t. Good player. Still proving stuff.

15 (our Justin Jackson): so you can argue that Justin is an older rookie. That’s fine, but watching his game tape shouldn’t have told you that he was going to be the “unquestioned starter” at the 3 for the Kings. That was going to be huge if he could pull that off, but that is a lofty expectation and I don’t think a lot of us were expecting that. I personally wanted OG Anunoby at 15, but Vlade wanted Jackson. I was still relatively high on Jackson so I didn’t care. He has actually exceeded my expectations. I think you had too high of expectations for him to begin with. He has proven to be a player who won’t hurt you at either end. His long ball is inconsistent, but I would say that he doesn’t really have any glaring weaknesses. He makes correct reads and has shown he can guard some 2s, most 3s, and small ball 4s. What more do you want?

——————————————

I will agree with you that Fox’s advanced stats don’t look good. I expected them to be down to begin with, but they’ve turned out to be a little worse. A lot of advanced stats value the most efficient shots (3s and layups/dunks) the most. Unfortunately, Fox hasn’t been aggressive enough driving to get his layups and his 3 ball is inconsistent. Thankfully both of those things are correctable. His shot looks fine and we know he can drive the ball with ease. He just needs work on breakdowns. He has had a bad stretch of games recently, but he has shown more good than bad this season. You should’ve expected this. PG tends to have the biggest learning curve when it comes to positions. Couple that with the fact that the guy wasn’t a 3pt shooter coming in and you can see that he would have a tough transition. Relax. Most rookies don’t pan out. It looks like we have two who will, and I haven’t even talked about Mason and Bogi in depth. All four rooks have turned out to be NBA players and ones who are improving with every game.

——————————————

Willie doesn’t look like a 6th pick. I’ll give you that, but he was a great pick when we picked him because we had Boogie. I would rather have him over who was a possibility at the time (Mudiay, Stanley Johnson). He hasn’t been molded into rim runner we expected him to be, but I don’t believe that is Joerger’s fault. It looked like that’s what Joerger wanted him to be, but Willie wanted other things. If you listen to Willie in interviews, he talks about being more of an offensive guy. It seems like coaches have tried to get through to him, but it just hasn’t happened. It’s frustrating, but it happens. He’s still proven to be a NBA player, even if he wasn’t the one we expected.

Skal has been inconsistent, but has still shown flashes. It’s the same as last season. We as fans built him up in our heads to be the savior. That’s a bit unfair and I accept that.

——————————————

It seems like you are just focusing on the negatives here. Take a step back and realize that this team’s future is the best it’s looked since our Webber-Bibby-Peja-Funderburke(lol) days. Each player is getting better. When you focus on the best case scenario and nothing else, you are bound to be disappointed.

I don’t know if I’m thinking of “best case scenario” as opposed to successful one. I don’t think this franchise can withstand not having a starter amongst JJ/Skal/WCS. Can’t withstand that. One of them, if not more, has to be on a trajectory of being a quality starter. Before the season I would have hoped for two. I’m giving it time, but..

Fox.. Him not being aggressive in getting layups as you say can be the recurring problem? Does he have motor issues? That’s the question that looms now. But he’s been very far removed from what he provided the first few weeks to start the season. And the player that started the season is what this franchise needs/needed

On top pick of roster issues, we still have an unqualified GM in Divac, not a full compliment of draft picks, and a reputation that minimizes our chances of being players in FA (could take some time to get that on track)

I appreciate your optimism, but I still see a lot of nonsense.

If you are expecting to see 20 year olds look like unquestioned starters, you will always be disappointed.

This is the problem with today's NBA. These kids go to school for 1 year and we wonder why they aren't coming out more polished. Back in the day they stayed 3-4 years, basically the first few years is strictly development but with the team instead of a college.

I'm not ready to judge this team, not even close. We can try to make comparisons all we want and projections but those often don't hold true.

Just like how you are talking about buddy being the only one whose developed. That's because you are living in the now. Fox has had his stretches of looking like our best player. Bogie has had a large stretch pre all star break where it looked like him. Skal has really shown some flashes when he returned from injury. WCS has at least 20 games where he looks like an above average NBA starter. And now buddy has looked like our best player the last 20 or so games. To start the season some kings fans questioned if he was the next mclemore. And with buddy that's where I'll give joerger credit. He found a role for him that best suits him, I have yet to see him try to do that with Fox/WCS or even largely with Skal until recently.

The important thing is all the guys are showing what they can be. Some will never pan out to those players, hopefully at least 3-4 do.

ESPN does that to you. It's a now now now, today world. What have you done for me lately. Lonzo ball had a month shooting 40% from 3, he was the next superstar. Then he has a month shooting 20% and the narrative changes to "is he the worst shooter in the league".

If by a players 3rd/4th yesr we aren't seeing more progression on a consistent basis then it's a fair question. But judging 1st and 2nd year players as finished products is an absolute joke.

Look what randle did from his 3rd to 4th year. He's just the most recent example, many players make the leap that year. Otto porter was another guy last year.

Patience is key with this team.

[BoogieTime]

It seems that you had best case scenario expectations for each player. That’s a tad unfair, don’t ya think?

First off, Jackson was not the 10th pick. We traded that pick to get 15 and 20. He was 15th. Sure it would’ve been nice to stay at 10 and draft Donovan Mitchell, but that is hindsight talking. He was not the unquestionable rookie in the draft at the time. So Vlade moved down in a move that looks pretty smart at the moment. He got two guys he believed in instead. Let’s take a look at the players selected 10-15:

10 (Zach Collins): not an “unquestioned starter” (started one game). He has shown some stretch big potential, but he is still going to be a project. This was expected.

11 (Malik Monk): struggled to adapt to the NBA game. Will probably be fine. Not a starter.

12 (Luke Kennard): has had his ups and downs. Not an unquestioned starter (started 5 games). He’s caught fire as of recent. He will be fine. Who knows if he will be a starter to come or a good bench shooter.

13 (Donovan Mitchell): first “unquestioned starter” so far. This was NOT the expectation when he was drafted. He has exceeded all expectations and looks like a fantastic young player. Love the kid.

14 (Bam Adebayo): not an “unquestioned starter”. He looks like he will be the energy big we expected, but he starts when Whiteside doesn’t. Good player. Still proving stuff.

15 (our Justin Jackson): so you can argue that Justin is an older rookie. That’s fine, but watching his game tape shouldn’t have told you that he was going to be the “unquestioned starter” at the 3 for the Kings. That was going to be huge if he could pull that off, but that is a lofty expectation and I don’t think a lot of us were expecting that. I personally wanted OG Anunoby at 15, but Vlade wanted Jackson. I was still relatively high on Jackson so I didn’t care. He has actually exceeded my expectations. I think you had too high of expectations for him to begin with. He has proven to be a player who won’t hurt you at either end. His long ball is inconsistent, but I would say that he doesn’t really have any glaring weaknesses. He makes correct reads and has shown he can guard some 2s, most 3s, and small ball 4s. What more do you want?

——————————————

I will agree with you that Fox’s advanced stats don’t look good. I expected them to be down to begin with, but they’ve turned out to be a little worse. A lot of advanced stats value the most efficient shots (3s and layups/dunks) the most. Unfortunately, Fox hasn’t been aggressive enough driving to get his layups and his 3 ball is inconsistent. Thankfully both of those things are correctable. His shot looks fine and we know he can drive the ball with ease. He just needs work on breakdowns. He has had a bad stretch of games recently, but he has shown more good than bad this season. You should’ve expected this. PG tends to have the biggest learning curve when it comes to positions. Couple that with the fact that the guy wasn’t a 3pt shooter coming in and you can see that he would have a tough transition. Relax. Most rookies don’t pan out. It looks like we have two who will, and I haven’t even talked about Mason and Bogi in depth. All four rooks have turned out to be NBA players and ones who are improving with every game.

——————————————

Willie doesn’t look like a 6th pick. I’ll give you that, but he was a great pick when we picked him because we had Boogie. I would rather have him over who was a possibility at the time (Mudiay, Stanley Johnson). He hasn’t been molded into rim runner we expected him to be, but I don’t believe that is Joerger’s fault. It looked like that’s what Joerger wanted him to be, but Willie wanted other things. If you listen to Willie in interviews, he talks about being more of an offensive guy. It seems like coaches have tried to get through to him, but it just hasn’t happened. It’s frustrating, but it happens. He’s still proven to be a NBA player, even if he wasn’t the one we expected.

Skal has been inconsistent, but has still shown flashes. It’s the same as last season. We as fans built him up in our heads to be the savior. That’s a bit unfair and I accept that.

——————————————

It seems like you are just focusing on the negatives here. Take a step back and realize that this team’s future is the best it’s looked since our Webber-Bibby-Peja-Funderburke(lol) days. Each player is getting better. When you focus on the best case scenario and nothing else, you are bound to be disappointed.

I don’t know if I’m thinking of “best case scenario” as opposed to successful one. I don’t think this franchise can withstand not having a starter amongst JJ/Skal/WCS. Can’t withstand that. One of them, if not more, has to be on a trajectory of being a quality starter. Before the season I would have hoped for two. I’m giving it time, but..

Fox.. Him not being aggressive in getting layups as you say can be the recurring problem? Does he have motor issues? That’s the question that looms now. But he’s been very far removed from what he provided the first few weeks to start the season. And the player that started the season is what this franchise needs/needed

On top pick of roster issues, we still have an unqualified GM in Divac, not a full compliment of draft picks, and a reputation that minimizes our chances of being players in FA (could take some time to get that on track)

I appreciate your optimism, but I still see a lot of nonsense.

If you are expecting to see 20 year olds look like unquestioned starters, you will always be disappointed.

This is the problem with today's NBA. These kids go to school for 1 year and we wonder why they aren't coming out more polished. Back in the day they stayed 3-4 years, basically the first few years is strictly development but with the team instead of a college.

I'm not ready to judge this team, not even close. We can try to make comparisons all we want and projections but those often don't hold true.

Just like how you are talking about buddy being the only one whose developed. That's because you are living in the now. Fox has had his stretches of looking like our best player. Bogie has had a large stretch pre all star break where it looked like him. Skal has really shown some flashes when he returned from injury. WCS has at least 20 games where he looks like an above average NBA starter. And now buddy has looked like our best player the last 20 or so games. To start the season some kings fans questioned if he was the next mclemore. And with buddy that's where I'll give joerger credit. He found a role for him that best suits him, I have yet to see him try to do that with Fox/WCS or even largely with Skal until recently.

The important thing is all the guys are showing what they can be. Some will never pan out to those players, hopefully at least 3-4 do.

ESPN does that to you. It's a now now now, today world. What have you done for me lately. Lonzo ball had a month shooting 40% from 3, he was the next superstar. Then he has a month shooting 20% and the narrative changes to "is he the worst shooter in the league".

If by a players 3rd/4th yesr we aren't seeing more progression on a consistent basis then it's a fair question. But judging 1st and 2nd year players as finished products is an absolute joke.

Look what randle did from his 3rd to 4th year. He's just the most recent example, many players make the leap that year. Otto porter was another guy last year.

Patience is key with this team.

I don’t need them to be unquestioned starters, I want their trajectories to be. Are the trajectories of Fox/JJ/Skal/WCS that now by what they are showing? Could I have hoped to have seen some of those trajectories last summer?

JJ has been improved, but as a mature rookie I wanted some 15/5 games, at least sporadically. He’s hanging on the border of hoping he can be a starter

[LightTheBeam]

I don’t know if I’m thinking of “best case scenario” as opposed to successful one. I don’t think this franchise can withstand not having a starter amongst JJ/Skal/WCS. Can’t withstand that. One of them, if not more, has to be on a trajectory of being a quality starter. Before the season I would have hoped for two. I’m giving it time, but..

Fox.. Him not being aggressive in getting layups as you say can be the recurring problem? Does he have motor issues? That’s the question that looms now. But he’s been very far removed from what he provided the first few weeks to start the season. And the player that started the season is what this franchise needs/needed

On top pick of roster issues, we still have an unqualified GM in Divac, not a full compliment of draft picks, and a reputation that minimizes our chances of being players in FA (could take some time to get that on track)

I appreciate your optimism, but I still see a lot of nonsense.

If you are expecting to see 20 year olds look like unquestioned starters, you will always be disappointed.

This is the problem with today's NBA. These kids go to school for 1 year and we wonder why they aren't coming out more polished. Back in the day they stayed 3-4 years, basically the first few years is strictly development but with the team instead of a college.

I'm not ready to judge this team, not even close. We can try to make comparisons all we want and projections but those often don't hold true.

Just like how you are talking about buddy being the only one whose developed. That's because you are living in the now. Fox has had his stretches of looking like our best player. Bogie has had a large stretch pre all star break where it looked like him. Skal has really shown some flashes when he returned from injury. WCS has at least 20 games where he looks like an above average NBA starter. And now buddy has looked like our best player the last 20 or so games. To start the season some kings fans questioned if he was the next mclemore. And with buddy that's where I'll give joerger credit. He found a role for him that best suits him, I have yet to see him try to do that with Fox/WCS or even largely with Skal until recently.

The important thing is all the guys are showing what they can be. Some will never pan out to those players, hopefully at least 3-4 do.

ESPN does that to you. It's a now now now, today world. What have you done for me lately. Lonzo ball had a month shooting 40% from 3, he was the next superstar. Then he has a month shooting 20% and the narrative changes to "is he the worst shooter in the league".

If by a players 3rd/4th yesr we aren't seeing more progression on a consistent basis then it's a fair question. But judging 1st and 2nd year players as finished products is an absolute joke.

Look what randle did from his 3rd to 4th year. He's just the most recent example, many players make the leap that year. Otto porter was another guy last year.

Patience is key with this team.

I don’t need them to be unquestioned starters, I want their trajectories to be. Are the trajectories of Fox/JJ/Skal/WCS that now by what they are showing? Could I have hoped to have seen some of those trajectories last summer?

JJ has been improved, but as a mature rookie I wanted some 15/5 games, at least sporadically. He’s hanging on the border of hoping he can be a starter

Dive deeper into the stats. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksju01/gamelog/2018/

How many times has he taken 10+ shots, very rarely.

You can either blame that on him not being aggressive or you can blame that on the coaching staff literally never once running plays for him.

When given the opportunity he's done well but it's almost impossible to do what you're asking when he consistently get a 3-6 shots per game.

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