2017-2018 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread Part Deux: Follow the Melo Brick Road

[bondom34]

I actually wasn't referring to you there either but I disagree with that too. Durant couldntnwin as the best player on his own team and I don't hear that talk there.

[slick_watts]

I actually wasn't referring to you there either but I disagree with that too. Durant couldntnwin as the best player on his own team and I don't hear that talk there.

kevin durant has a skill set and style that can mesh with anyone- it even meshed with westbrook's. westbrook might not get out of the first round for the rest of his prime. kevin durant got to the nba finals and several wcf's. Knrstz said in his post (which you said you agreed with) that westbrook's style may not be enough to win 16 games in the playoffs. i dunno how what i'm saying is any different other than i add that westbrook should have some personal responsibility to improve these aspects of his approach.

[bondom34]

I actually wasn't referring to you there either but I disagree with that too. Durant couldntnwin as the best player on his own team and I don't hear that talk there.

kevin durant has a skill set and style that can mesh with anyone- it even meshed with westbrook's. westbrook might not get out of the first round for the rest of his prime. kevin durant got to the nba finals and several wcf's. Knrstz said in his post (which you said you agreed with) that westbrook's style may not be enough to win 16 games in the playoffs. i dunno how what i'm saying is any different other than i add that westbrook should have some personal responsibility to improve these aspects of his approach.

Durant actually couldn't win a round in the playoffs himself. The rest I agree on

[slick_watts]

I actually wasn't referring to you there either but I disagree with that too. Durant couldntnwin as the best player on his own team and I don't hear that talk there.

kevin durant has a skill set and style that can mesh with anyone- it even meshed with westbrook's. westbrook might not get out of the first round for the rest of his prime. kevin durant got to the nba finals and several wcf's. Knrstz said in his post (which you said you agreed with) that westbrook's style may not be enough to win 16 games in the playoffs. i dunno how what i'm saying is any different other than i add that westbrook should have some personal responsibility to improve these aspects of his approach.

Durant actually couldn't win a round in the playoffs himself. The rest I agree on

if you agree on the rest what was the point of bringing up kevin durant in the first place? what were you disagreeing with me on?

[bondom34]

kevin durant has a skill set and style that can mesh with anyone- it even meshed with westbrook's. westbrook might not get out of the first round for the rest of his prime. kevin durant got to the nba finals and several wcf's. Knrstz said in his post (which you said you agreed with) that westbrook's style may not be enough to win 16 games in the playoffs. i dunno how what i'm saying is any different other than i add that westbrook should have some personal responsibility to improve these aspects of his approach.

Durant actually couldn't win a round in the playoffs himself. The rest I agree on

if you agree on the rest what was the point of bringing up kevin durant in the first place? what were you disagreeing with me on?

Nothing. I just think some players take more criticism for similar levels of flaws. In this case Westbrook has generally been the scapegoat for the Thunder for 9 years. At least the majority of it.

Just my 2 cents on the analysis.

[slick_watts]

Durant actually couldn't win a round in the playoffs himself. The rest I agree on

if you agree on the rest what was the point of bringing up kevin durant in the first place? what were you disagreeing with me on?

Nothing. I just think some players take more criticism for similar levels of flaws. In this case Westbrook has generally been the scapegoat for the Thunder for 9 years. At least the majority of it.

Just my 2 cents on the analysis.

bruh you literally said 'but i disagree with that too' then brought up kevin durant.

whatevs. i'm glad we've at least come this far on westbrook. i look forward to what the next few seasons hold.

[bondom34]

if you agree on the rest what was the point of bringing up kevin durant in the first place? what were you disagreeing with me on?

Nothing. I just think some players take more criticism for similar levels of flaws. In this case Westbrook has generally been the scapegoat for the Thunder for 9 years. At least the majority of it.

Just my 2 cents on the analysis.

bruh you literally said 'but i disagree with that too' then brought up kevin durant.

whatevs. i'm glad we've at least come this far on westbrook. i look forward to what the next few seasons hold.

Same.

I've never said has blameless. Just that it at times goes too far.

[slick_watts]

Nothing. I just think some players take more criticism for similar levels of flaws. In this case Westbrook has generally been the scapegoat for the Thunder for 9 years. At least the majority of it.

Just my 2 cents on the analysis.

bruh you literally said 'but i disagree with that too' then brought up kevin durant.

whatevs. i'm glad we've at least come this far on westbrook. i look forward to what the next few seasons hold.

Same.

I've never said has blameless. Just that it at times goes too far.

short term variance.

[bondom34]

Ok then

[wco81]

The criticism of russ is very valid. He’s shooting 29% from three now. He gets a lot of unfair criticism but much of it is justified. Why do people criticize him? He didn’t steal their girlfriend and bully them in school. It’s that despite his impact on the game as a whole, his poor decision making can single handedly lose the games. Last night is a great example of this. Is last nights loss 100% his fault? Of course not. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a great game tonight. That’s the storyline of his career. If the nba were setup like March madness, his style of play might be enough to get him an nba title but it’s not winning 16 games in the playoffs. I want russ to be the guy as much as anyone but I can’t overlook how is play negatively impacts the team at times.

my problem with it, on top of all of what you said here, is that this behavior has been enabled for years and is no longer correctable. the thunder had many opportunities to curtail, but chose not to.

my poor take on it and taking it too far is born from an expectation that a leader be self-aware enough to improve these things. westbrook's going to carry that chip on his shoulder until he retires, and it's unfortunate. two seasons ago i would have been blasted for saying that his style of play was not conducive to winning a title. now the goal posts have shifted and i guess it's ok to say that, but it's not ok to say that it's westbrook's responsibility to correct as a leader.

the truth always comes out.

His biggest fault may be that his style of play drove KD from the team, or was one of the reasons he left.


If PG13 leaves after this season, you can't say he was leaving because of Westbrook but you might be able to say he wasn't enough of a reason for PG13 to stay.

[bondom34]

That's literally the opposite of what Durant said. And on a burner no less.

[ThunderBolt]

I’m sure since I’m likely older than most, they won’t understand this reference. When I watch russ play and see a horrible play followed up by an incredible one, I’m often reminded of this scene from Forrest Gump. (Ignore captions and poor video quality)

Watch on YouTube

[wco81]

33 points but 32 shot attempts in a loss.

[bondom34]

33 points but 32 shot attempts in a loss.

How observant.

[Pillendreher]

So after beating Toronto, they naturally go ahead and lose 4 out of 5 to a bunch of middling teams.

@Boston: Misses half his team; 19 points off turnovers allowed; 10 fts missed
vs Portland: 21 2nd chance points allowed
@ San Antonio: 7 fts missed, 18 points off turnovers allowed
vs Denver: 12 fts missed, 15 points off turnovers allowed, 19 2nd chance points allowed

**** like this is just not gonna be enough.

71/105 from the FT line
64 points off turnovers allowed
57 second chance points allowed

We lost these 4 games by a combined 9 points. And don't give me the 'Well, they are a trash FT shooting team; well, they are a mediocre defensive rebounding team'-line - I don't give a ****! **** like this is just unacceptable. Russ can't shoot 64 % (21/33) from the ft line over those 4 games - he's a 82 % career FT shooter! When the season is on the line, this just can't happen - BE BETTER!

[ThunderBolt]

I’m not even sure we miss the playoffs if we lose out. Clippers and pelicans both lost too last night.

[Pillendreher]

I’m not even sure we miss the playoffs if we lose out. Clippers and pelicans both lost too last night.

J.A. Sherman on WTLC:

Really, the only answer remaining is whether OKC’s 2017-18 experiment will fail in part, or in full. Either way, I’m tired.

Despite my ragings and occasional meltdowns, I don't consider myself a pessimist when it comes to this win. They can play like crap today and I still expect them to win the very next day, no matter the opponent (or at least I hope they do). But man, this season is getting to me. I was dreading watching the Nuggets game. The 4th quarter pulled me back in, but then of course they again stop defending and lose yet another one. Cheering for them this season is such a weird experience: So up and down all season long. Everything looks like such a struggle. The highs are so high, the lows are so low.

[ThunderBolt]

I’m not even sure we miss the playoffs if we lose out. Clippers and pelicans both lost too last night.

J.A. Sherman on WTLC:

Really, the only answer remaining is whether OKC’s 2017-18 experiment will fail in part, or in full. Either way, I’m tired.

Despite my ragings and occasional meltdowns, I don't consider myself a pessimist when it comes to this win. They can play like crap today and I still expect them to win the very next day, no matter the opponent (or at least I hope they do). But man, this season is getting to me. I was dreading watching the Nuggets game. The 4th quarter pulled me back in, but then of course they again stop defending and lose yet another one. Cheering for them this season is such a weird experience: So up and down all season long. Everything looks like such a struggle. The highs are so high, the lows are so low.

It kind of makes you wonder if ownership would even let Presti give George a max.

[ThunderBolt]

Since the asg, Ferguson is 11/26 from three, 42%.

[Pillendreher]

I’m not even sure we miss the playoffs if we lose out. Clippers and pelicans both lost too last night.

J.A. Sherman on WTLC:

Really, the only answer remaining is whether OKC’s 2017-18 experiment will fail in part, or in full. Either way, I’m tired.

Despite my ragings and occasional meltdowns, I don't consider myself a pessimist when it comes to this win. They can play like crap today and I still expect them to win the very next day, no matter the opponent (or at least I hope they do). But man, this season is getting to me. I was dreading watching the Nuggets game. The 4th quarter pulled me back in, but then of course they again stop defending and lose yet another one. Cheering for them this season is such a weird experience: So up and down all season long. Everything looks like such a struggle. The highs are so high, the lows are so low.

It kind of makes you wonder if ownership would even let Presti give George a max.

Gee, I don't know. I don't even know what to do with them at this point. Would a coaching change be enough? When you look at the data, they are mediocre accross the board save for some stuff they're doing pretty well:

-Points off turnovers: 1st
-2nd chance points: 1st
-Fast break points: 3rd
-Points in the paint: 19th
-Opp points off turnovers: 2nd
-Opp 2nd chance points: 22nd
-Opp fast break point: 10th
-Opp points in the paint: 8th

-eFG%: 19th
-FTr: 9th
-TOV%: 12th
-ORB%: 1st
-opp eFG%: 17th
-opp FTr: 16th
-opp TOV%: 1st
-opp ORB% 17th

-Catch and Shoot eFG%: 15th
-Pull Ups eFG%: 27th
-FT%: 29th
-PTS% on drives: 19th

-Passes: 30th
-Secondary assists: 26th
-Assists adjusted: 27th

-Adjusted ORB Chance %: 2nd
-Adjusted DRB Chance %: 25th

How much of that is on the coach, how much is on roster contruction and how much is on the players themselves? Is a coaching change enough? An offensive system (of any sort really) would certainly help. Somebody who's not willing to throw games because he got this idea in his head that something that has never worked, will suddenly work. Somebody who's actually capable of using guys who can shoot. Etc. We've talked about this quite extensively.

But besides that, there are also things wrong with this team that can't be blamed on just Donovan. A team with this kind of experience (the only reasonably young guys in the rotation currently are Abrines, Ferguson and Grant) should not look unfocused and energyless this often. They should not play like the world owes them success. They should not suddenly become bad free throw shooters. They should be able to put away close games, because they've been there before. They should not be this unbelievably inconsistent.
Now I know a lot of this screams 'Westbrook', but it's not just him. He's not the only guy on this team. He's the guy leading the pack, of course, so he needs to lead by example, but it can't just be him.

If I were to create a sort of 'roadmap', it would probably look like this (let's assume George gives us another chance'):

-Fire Donovan and find somebody who knows how to utilize what's on the roster, but who's also somebody players respect.
-Put him to work as soon as Donovan is gone and revamp this team. Don't need to play like the Warriors, but put somebody around the guys on the team that maxes them out.
-Move Melo to bench. It's the natural move at this point.
-Find guys who are able to make fts and open 3s.
-Install a defensive system that doesn't just rely on forcing turnovers, but also helps us guarding against the 3.
-Involve everybody. No more 'You be you' bull. This has to be a team effort.

Is that possible? I don't know. I guess the only way is if they find somebody with enough experience, charisma and reputation to really pull our 'Big 3' with him.