Warriors without Steph Curry

[CIN-C-STAR]

You must not understand what a role player is.
And Shawn Marion was and always was a role player.

Role player isn't negative btw

Lemme guess, a role player plays a role and superstars don't? Or superstars play so many roles that they can't be limited to just one anymore? Or if a player can create their own offense like Lou Williams they're not a role player, but if they can't like Dikembe Mutombo then they are one?

I never said role player was a negative term, only that if you apply it to too many players the term is meaningless. If role player ranges from Steve Kerr and Bruce Bowen to Shawn Marion and Reggie Miller then 90% of the NBA are role players. You might as well just call them players.

Yeah I think from a common sense perspective, basketball fans have always understood "role players" to be players not as good as "star players".

Usually they are players who come off the bench and only play 20 mins or less. They are hustle players who play good D, rebound, etc. or they are a 3 pt specialist like Steve Kerr.

That is the common sense definition.

And Draymond Green does not fit that definition. He is a DPOY, 3X All-Star, 2 Time All NBA Team, 3X All NBA Defensive Team, NBA Steals Leader (2017).

I don't personally think it's possible for someone to be an All Star and make All NBA teams (signifying he is a top 15 player in the league) and be a role player. Others on this board clearly have a different viewpoint.

Draymond is a star player. And I agree with you that if you extend the meaning of "role player" to star players it is totally diluted and becomes meaningless.

Zaza Pachulia almost made the All Star team a couple seasons ago. It is literally a popularity contest.
(The league has dialed back fan input on All Star selections, but they still get the bulk of the input if I'm not mistaken, and that was only a very recent change.)
All-NBA team selections are legit though. I'm not disagreeing with you just saying All-Star selections aren't all that.

[Dupp]

KD losing it without Steph. Needs to get back on his shoulders asap

[Darren]

Best player on the Warriors. He's their number 1 guy while Durant is number 2.

Obviously, yes. Curry draws bigs from basket and make them pay regardless. KD's the number 2. But so is Klay and Draymond. He's not a clear number 2 on this team. Actually, I think OKC's more Westbrook team than KD's team before the latter left. Westbrook is clearly more impactful for opponents' defensive plans. Meanwhile, KD did not.

[Patches Perry]

If you look at records this year and last year where Curry and Durant are out of the lineups separately, it appears that Curry is definitely the transcendent player of the two. Without Curry, the Durant-led Warriors appear to be about a 55 win team or thereabouts. That's what about the Thunder were always, that's about what the Warriors have been without Curry and with Durant. With Curry in the past 2 years in games without Durant, and even extended to the previous 2 years before Durant, they've been a 65-70 win team or won at that pace. I think they were 15-4 last year without Durant and 7-0 this year. Obviously they won 73 and 67 the prior years. You could argue that they'll be better with Curry because Durant is the transplant, but I don't think that holds two years in.

All of this is to say that I think Durant is actually a bit overrated. In terms of impact, I can't make a meaningful argument that he is better than James Harden at this point. I think it's been demonstrated that LeBron, Curry and Harden all have superior impact.

[Gus McCrae]

So weird , more like disappointing, that none of these other guys will play without Curry/Klay. You’d think KD or Green would embrace this opportunity to showcase themselves since they’ve been called out for being a profuct is the system in Greens case or being a beta/2nd best player on the team for KD, but then when Curry/Klay are out for extended time, these guys look for reasons NOT to play basketball. KD ejected? Draymond our for 3 days with the flu and a sore groin? Just a disappointing group of guys. Seems like they’re trying to hide behind each other.

[MrCheerios]

If you look at records this year and last year where Curry and Durant are out of the lineups separately, it appears that Curry is definitely the transcendent player of the two. Without Curry, the Durant-led Warriors appear to be about a 55 win team or thereabouts. That's what about the Thunder were always, that's about what the Warriors have been without Curry and with Durant. With Curry in the past 2 years in games without Durant, and even extended to the previous 2 years before Durant, they've been a 65-70 win team or won at that pace. I think they were 15-4 last year without Durant and 7-0 this year. Obviously they won 73 and 67 the prior years. You could argue that they'll be better with Curry because Durant is the transplant, but I don't think that holds two years in.

All of this is to say that I think Durant is actually a bit overrated. In terms of impact, I can't make a meaningful argument that he is better than James Harden at this point. I think it's been demonstrated that LeBron, Curry and Harden all have superior impact.

That's a fair assessment. Curry is an amazing player and although Durant is also amazing he hasn't quite had the same results. Don't forget about sample size though. In Curry's extended absence earlier this year the Warriors won their first eight games without him and 10 out of 12. Now they can't seem to win without him, but they just don't seem like the same team in general.

[KHRICH]

KD losing it without Steph. Needs to get back on his shoulders asap

Completely ignoring the fact it isnt just steph out but anything to push the agenda I suppose.

[Patches Perry]

If you look at records this year and last year where Curry and Durant are out of the lineups separately, it appears that Curry is definitely the transcendent player of the two. Without Curry, the Durant-led Warriors appear to be about a 55 win team or thereabouts. That's what about the Thunder were always, that's about what the Warriors have been without Curry and with Durant. With Curry in the past 2 years in games without Durant, and even extended to the previous 2 years before Durant, they've been a 65-70 win team or won at that pace. I think they were 15-4 last year without Durant and 7-0 this year. Obviously they won 73 and 67 the prior years. You could argue that they'll be better with Curry because Durant is the transplant, but I don't think that holds two years in.

All of this is to say that I think Durant is actually a bit overrated. In terms of impact, I can't make a meaningful argument that he is better than James Harden at this point. I think it's been demonstrated that LeBron, Curry and Harden all have superior impact.

That's a fair assessment. Curry is an amazing player and although Durant is also amazing he hasn't quite had the same results. Don't forget about sample size though. In Curry's extended absence earlier this year the Warriors won their first eight games without him and 10 out of 12. Now they can't seem to win without him, but they just don't seem like the same team in general.

It's more of a compliment to Curry than criticism of Durant. When comparing the two, it seems there are two camps. People who look at basketball impact, and people who look at abilities. When you look at impact, there is no argument against Curry or for Durant, because Curry is off the charts in terms of basketball impact on and off the court. When you look at abilities, there is no argument against Durant or for Curry, because Durant is off the charts with his combination of offense/defense/height/length/athleticism/skills. Still, I can't help but think that basketball impact should be the gold standard. Abilities don't mean anything if they don't impact anything.

[WarriorGM]

Curry is the best player in the league. Why is any of this a surprise?

[NBAFan93]

They looked comically bad last night - KD melting down and cussing out a ref so loud that it’s picked up by the mics and heard on national TV - then gets his third ejection for the season - just all around fun to watch - lol!!!

Enjoy it while it lasts though - cause once they get everyone back healthy they are going to be just as scary as always.

[Cresy06]

LMAO @ since 2011 when Curry was injured and GS blatantly tanked to end the season.

LeBron impactful since he turned 18, Curry had to have a system put around him to win.

Curry IS a system! You either play his way or you don't.

Lebron can play in any system I agree. But Lebron is on another level, we all know that

[Splashin]

So weird , more like disappointing, that none of these other guys will play without Curry/Klay. You’d think KD or Green would embrace this opportunity to showcase themselves since they’ve been called out for being a profuct is the system in Greens case or being a beta/2nd best player on the team for KD, but then when Curry/Klay are out for extended time, these guys look for reasons NOT to play basketball. KD ejected? Draymond our for 3 days with the flu and a sore groin? Just a disappointing group of guys. Seems like they’re trying to hide behind each other.

I think they're emotionally exhausted and really tired of the season grind. As a warriors fan this team has very clear emotional maturity issues that haven't gone away since 2016 and have been exasperated by injury and Kevin Durant's self esteem.

[lakerz12]

So 3-0 since Klay's return...how can it be?

No Curry and Klay still putting up 20+ ppg. I thought he depended on Steph. Back to the drawing board.

[CeraVe]

A better barometer would be their record without Curry but with KD

Also record without Curry but with Draymond, Klay, Iguodala from 2014-2016 prior to KD joining. Small sample sizes for both cases. Klay and Draymond were not even in their primes, no Iguodala from 11-13' and M. Jackson coaching.

[og15]

The OP was quite interesting, I don't know if everyone was aware of the whole "since 2011". Like others have mentioned, that isn't really very useful for much discussion, what would be interesting for a time like now would be things like without Curry, but with Durant/Green/Thompson, etc, at least for some interesting discussion. The fact that the team has done well with Curry in the lineup vs without which includes some seasons they weren't even good outside of him and games with other guys out is cool, but not really interesting to discuss.

[XxIronChainzxX]

If you look at records this year and last year where Curry and Durant are out of the lineups separately, it appears that Curry is definitely the transcendent player of the two. Without Curry, the Durant-led Warriors appear to be about a 55 win team or thereabouts. That's what about the Thunder were always, that's about what the Warriors have been without Curry and with Durant. With Curry in the past 2 years in games without Durant, and even extended to the previous 2 years before Durant, they've been a 65-70 win team or won at that pace. I think they were 15-4 last year without Durant and 7-0 this year. Obviously they won 73 and 67 the prior years. You could argue that they'll be better with Curry because Durant is the transplant, but I don't think that holds two years in.

All of this is to say that I think Durant is actually a bit overrated. In terms of impact, I can't make a meaningful argument that he is better than James Harden at this point. I think it's been demonstrated that LeBron, Curry and Harden all have superior impact.

That's a fair assessment. Curry is an amazing player and although Durant is also amazing he hasn't quite had the same results. Don't forget about sample size though. In Curry's extended absence earlier this year the Warriors won their first eight games without him and 10 out of 12. Now they can't seem to win without him, but they just don't seem like the same team in general.

It's more of a compliment to Curry than criticism of Durant. When comparing the two, it seems there are two camps. People who look at basketball impact, and people who look at abilities. When you look at impact, there is no argument against Curry or for Durant, because Curry is off the charts in terms of basketball impact on and off the court. When you look at abilities, there is no argument against Durant or for Curry, because Durant is off the charts with his combination of offense/defense/height/length/athleticism/skills. Still, I can't help but think that basketball impact should be the gold standard. Abilities don't mean anything if they don't impact anything.

Curry is just such a unique player that it is hard for him to get the recognition he deserves (and now with KD on that team it will be really hard unless KD flames out in an embarrassing fashion before Curry is back and 100%).

[michaelm]

LMAO @ since 2011 when Curry was injured and GS blatantly tanked to end the season.

LeBron impactful since he turned 18, Curry had to have a system put around him to win.

Curry IS a system! You either play his way or you don't.

Lebron can play in any system I agree. But Lebron is on another level, we all know that

I await with earnest anticipation details of all the different systems LeBron has played.

[jbk1234]

The Warriors w/o Curry make it possible to double Durant - which makes a huge difference as there may be 2 guys in the entire league who can defend Durant straight up.

[DaFan334]

If my Nuggets are able to slip into the 7th seed and play the Warriors in the first round without Curry, it could get really interesting really quick. We normally give them a good fight and with us coming in hot, there is a decent shot at an upset. I would be slightly reminiscent of when the young Warriors upset the 57-win Nugs to put them on the map as contenders back in 2012-13.

[Lost92Bricks]

Even without Stephen they should still have championship expectations.

Yes, they are obviously not as dominant but they are still more talented than any other team.

I don't understand the lack of confidence people are showing in Kevin Durant. If he is really the 2nd best player in the league then this team should not lose to anybody.