Tell Me Why Kelly Olynyk Isn't A Top 10 Center

[zzaj]

Are you sure about that?

No, I'm not sure. I haven't looked at their numbers at the Center position that closely. But before you try and make a huge point by digging up stats, remember one number on which most of us here would take Sabonis over Olynyk. Age.

Olynyk in his 5th season-- 26
Sabonis in his 2nd season-- 21

But we're not talking about the future, we're talking about now. Also, per36 KO averages more points and assists than Sabonis.

That's great...they are probably closer than I think. Maybe Olynyk is EASILY the better player right now. I'm not going to spend the time looking up advanced stats on this.

But I know 2 things:

1) You've had about 5 pages in this thread showing you why Olynyk isn't a top 10 center RIGHT NOW.
2) If you put up a poll, asking whether or not a team would rather have Olynyk or Sabonis on their roster RIGHT NOW, Sabonis would win.

Edit: I appreciate your fandom, and I actually like Olynyk as a player. He fits in nicely with where the Center position has evolved and no doubt can fill in some gaps on a good team.

[Alex DeLarge]

Are you sure about that?

No, I'm not sure. I haven't looked at their numbers at the Center position that closely. But before you try and make a huge point by digging up stats, remember one number on which most of us here would take Sabonis over Olynyk. Age.

Olynyk in his 5th season-- 26
Sabonis in his 2nd season-- 21

But we're not talking about the future, we're talking about now. Also, per36 KO averages more points and assists than Sabonis.

But Olynyk could never play 36 minutes per, because his team would get killed (assuming he didn't foul out earlier). The fact that the debate is now Olynyk vs. Sabonis should be proof enough that KO doesn't sniff the top 10.

It's ironic. This thread can only have the effect of engendering negative comments about Olynyk. As other Heat fans have suggested, it would be wiser to simply appreciate him for what he does well, rather than make outlandish statements that result in people highlighting just how many guys are better than him.

[Trippinskarlo]

Cause he's """dirty""" wahhhhhgg

[TheBonzaiEffect]

I'll admit I haven't watched him much this year, but last year with the Celtics he was insanely overrated on this board. People acted like him going to Miami was this massive loss for Boston. It wasn't.

I rate Kelly Olynyk about at high as Mo Speights from a couple years ago. Can come in and get you a few buckets, but don't count on it every night.

If you have low expectations, you're likely to be pleasantly surprised. But if he's starting, your team is probably not very good.

Silly comparison. Olynk is a great passer, can play in the post, is a decent defender. Mo is a chucker blackhole who can get hot. Terrible defender, passer, and anything aside from streaky jumpshooting.

[NormanDale]

. Olynk is a great passer, can play in the post, is a decent defender.

I guess we're talking about different players. The Kelly Olynyk I'm referring to is none of those things.

[Roddy]

So now Kelly Okynyk is a decent defender...ok....

[winter_mute_13]

Olynyk's value doesn't come from his individual ability, it's from the system he enables Miami to play when he's on the floor. There's a lot of offensive value in bigs who can pass and shoot like he can.

I actually like the comparison with Sabonis. Sabonis is more rugged and Olynyk has more range, but I think they bring a lot of the same qualities to the floor. I also have no problem acknowledging Olynyk as the better player right now.

He's one of those guys who makes his teammates play better. The value of that has always been hard to pin down.

[I_Like_Dirt]

He's one of those guys who makes his teammates play better. The value of that has always been hard to pin down.

Quite a few people have a really hard time accepting the value of team contributions over individual contributions. The league has started to realize that team-oriented value is magnified the fewer individual-oriented values you have on the team. How to "rank" players is even more complicated, too, because team-oriented contributions aren't nearly so designed for ranking, which I'm sure tends to be why quite a few people prefer to focus on the individuals. The role has evolved, but it isn't like Olynyk is an unusual player, either, but finally there seems to at least be a limited push to try to figure out the value behind players like him. I mean, who was really more valuable back in the day, Robert Horry or Juwan Howard? Bruce Bowen or Corey Maggette? The math wasn't always so clear. Frankly, I think the Heat have a great example right now between Olynyk and Whiteside.

[prophet_of_rage]

1.Cousins
2.Embiid
3.Jokic
4.Gobert
5.Kat
6.?
7.?
8.?
9.?
10.?

He has easily been the Heat's most important player this season. Consider these numbers:

6th among centers in RPM(#3 in offensive RPM)
Has a BPM score of 3(the impact of a star)
The Heat with KO on the floor outscore opponents by 7.4 points per 100 possessions.

Also, in the month of March he's averaging 13.5 PPG 6.4 REB 4.7 AST to 1.6 TO a game.

There are 10 better centers.

[FinallyImHere]

Glad to see him doing well in Miami tired of the "Brad Stevens system player" narrative all these salty posters on here keep bringing up.

Olynyks problem is consistency and T-Rex arms.

Jae doing well in Utah

[BBallFreak]

He's one of those guys who makes his teammates play better. The value of that has always been hard to pin down.

Quite a few people have a really hard time accepting the value of team contributions over individual contributions. The league has started to realize that team-oriented value is magnified the fewer individual-oriented values you have on the team. How to "rank" players is even more complicated, too, because team-oriented contributions aren't nearly so designed for ranking, which I'm sure tends to be why quite a few people prefer to focus on the individuals. The role has evolved, but it isn't like Olynyk is an unusual player, either, but finally there seems to at least be a limited push to try to figure out the value behind players like him. I mean, who was really more valuable back in the day, Robert Horry or Juwan Howard? Bruce Bowen or Corey Maggette? The math wasn't always so clear. Frankly, I think the Heat have a great example right now between Olynyk and Whiteside.

Thoroughly agree. These intangible players (Olynyk, Horry, Bowen, etc. Not that Olynyk compares to those guys, but it's a similar scenario) have the ability to make things work where they wouldn't otherwise. I don't know what Olynyk's legacy will be or if he'll even have one. Players like him have to be instrumental role players on championship teams to be remembered (James Posey being a prime example IMO). What he brings, for now at least, is the ability to help make them sum of the parts greater than the individual pieces.

He's on a team of role players and he blends in. Miami doesn't have a star player. They have a bunch of role players who take turns stepping up (including Olynyk). The team is full of players just like that, yet because of the way they play individually, as a team they are able to be successful.

Is he a top 10 center? LOL! No way. He's not the best on his own team. He is what he is, a very solid role player who is capable of contributing to a good team. You might even call him the best backup center in the league, even saying he could start for a few teams, but he's at his best when he's allowed to fill that role. He's a smart player who knows his own game. There is value in that. We don't need to overstate his value. He's already valuable...

[The_Hater]

He's one of those guys who makes his teammates play better. The value of that has always been hard to pin down.

Quite a few people have a really hard time accepting the value of team contributions over individual contributions. The league has started to realize that team-oriented value is magnified the fewer individual-oriented values you have on the team. How to "rank" players is even more complicated, too, because team-oriented contributions aren't nearly so designed for ranking, which I'm sure tends to be why quite a few people prefer to focus on the individuals. The role has evolved, but it isn't like Olynyk is an unusual player, either, but finally there seems to at least be a limited push to try to figure out the value behind players like him. I mean, who was really more valuable back in the day, Robert Horry or Juwan Howard? Bruce Bowen or Corey Maggette? The math wasn't always so clear. Frankly, I think the Heat have a great example right now between Olynyk and Whiteside.

A lot of good points here, but many of these team oriented role players suddenly struggle when they change uniforms or coaches. Sometimes a player looks great because they’re in the perfect system for their skills with the perfect teammates and coach who help bring out their best qualities.

I would also a argue that Olynyk is playing the the perfect era for his skill set, a mobile big man who can pass, handle and shoot. So he looks more valuable as the league continues to evolve this direction. Put these same two players back in 1999 and Whiteside is almost certainly more valuable because that era was perfect for a low post Center like him who blocks shots and rebounds but doesn’t want to leave the key on Defense.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

. Olynk is a great passer, can play in the post, is a decent defender.

I guess we're talking about different players. The Kelly Olynyk I'm referring to is none of those things.

I guess you'e never watched K.O. play. In the last 6 games alone, he has a 10 assist game and a 9 assist game. Speights has never averaged over 1 assist a game in his career.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

So now Kelly Okynyk is a decent defender...ok....

105 DRtg, 2.5 DWS, 1.4 DBPM. Yes.

[bmurph128]

Now that I think about it, maybe we haven't given Olynyk enough credit. He's the Jar-Jar Binks of the NBA.

He injures Love in the playoffs. If that does NOT happen:

Cavs beat Warriors in 2015.

Warriors out for revenge and win the finals in 2016.

Durant doesn't join the Warriors coming off a title and either stays in OKC or goes to Boston or LA (Clippers).

So the imbalance of the NBA can all be traced back to Kelly.

[Roddy]

So now Kelly Okynyk is a decent defender...ok....

105 DRtg, 2.5 DWS, 1.4 DBPM. Yes.

I Watch the games. I don't care about your stupid stats.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

So now Kelly Okynyk is a decent defender...ok....

105 DRtg, 2.5 DWS, 1.4 DBPM. Yes.

I Watch the games. I don't care about your stupid stats.

Maybe you should watch them better?

[I_Like_Dirt]

...many of these team oriented role players suddenly struggle when they change uniforms or coaches. Sometimes a player looks great because they’re in the perfect system for their skills with the perfect teammates and coach who help bring out their best qualities.

That's sort of the point, though. Value is far more fluid than is normally described. I mean, yeah, some players like Lebron, they're just good no matter what because they're so good that they're going to be the focus wherever they go. But value is largely tied to what a team needs of those players.

And that's where people, I find, get themselves into trouble going by statistics. People tend to think Whiteside is this amazing C and Olynyk is a scrub and maybe the 3rd best C on his team. The reality is that Whiteside looks at his best when the team game is breaking down. If other players are making mistakes, he's there to erase them by contesting/blocking a shot while leaving his man on defense even if he isn't in a position to recover, or by going to get the rebound. Whiteside's value, however, decreases if you have a team that doesn't make so many mistakes. Yes, he still has value, but suddenly he's no longer covering up more mistakes than he, himself, is making. Statistically, he's going to look great no matter what, while other players won't, but it's easy to get lost in that wilderness and misunderstand what's actually happening. Both Whiteside and Olynyk have their uses as players, but I don't feel like either is outrageously better than the other, just very, very different players.

Olynyk isn't a top 10 C, but I don't think the disparity between top 10 Cs and everyone else is nearly as pronounced as it gets made out to be unless you're willing to include players like Anthony Davis, Lamarcus Aldridge, etc. in the discussion, which they really should be.

[JonFromVA]

He's one of those guys who makes his teammates play better. The value of that has always been hard to pin down.

Floor spacing is a big deal in this day & age, having the right mix on the floor will ignite an offense. It tends to overpower other considerations when it comes to the impact stats. Kelly does dish out a fair number of assists, but he also turns the ball over too much. Having him participate in the group's ball movement is a good thing, but you might not want to try to run the offense through him.

[sophie23]

15-20 as a Center
However he is a center only on the paper.
As a frontcourt Player with backcourt abilities - valuable, he does not limits team's offensive options.
However, 4/50M is decent for both sides in think.

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