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The "Dude": The Mitch Kupchak Thread

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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#21 » by countryboi » Mon Apr 2, 2018 7:53 pm

TheKingofSting wrote:
BlackOutBuzz wrote:Neither surprising nor inspiring, but it's fine. A young, innovative mind would've been nice for the future but the more pressing issue is the cap situation. Given that perhaps a more experienced candidate is the correct call.

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SWedd523 wrote:First the Sham that became Hurney, now this. Kind of reeks of unprofessionalism.


I knew someone on here agreed with me about the Panthers' "search". I thought it was BOB but it may have been both of you.

If he can somehow get Julius Randle (sign and trade) or Parker from the Bucks and dump some of our trash (Marvin and/or Batum) then he will be a Legend for sure!

I bet the first thing he does is trade Kemba with our luck! :nonono:



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the big difference with the Panther search is with new ownership coming in none of it mattered long term.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#22 » by Robot Rock » Mon Apr 2, 2018 7:54 pm

JDR720 wrote:Don't think they really gave anyone else a shot, they knew they wanted Mitch well before Cho got canned.


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Re: RE: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#23 » by BlackOutBuzz » Mon Apr 2, 2018 8:23 pm

TheKingofSting wrote:
BlackOutBuzz wrote:Neither surprising nor inspiring, but it's fine. A young, innovative mind would've been nice for the future but the more pressing issue is the cap situation. Given that perhaps a more experienced candidate is the correct call.

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I knew someone on here agreed with me about the Panthers' "search". I thought it was BOB but it may have been both of you.



I made the comparison but then clarified that Kupchak wouldn't be nearly as bad as Hurney. Kupchak actually has a history of success and can get a job outside of his previous employer. Hurney couldn't get even a rumor of an interview outside of Charlotte, and was handed the job after a couple league-mandated minority interviews.

I'm not looking to start another Hurney thread-derailment though.

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Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#24 » by TheKingofSting » Mon Apr 2, 2018 8:52 pm

Pros:

- Always drafted BPA in the first round or traded pick for an immediate impact player.

- Has found talent all over the second round trading up, back or buying back into the draft. (Clarkson, Zubac come to mind in his most recent drafts)*

- Seems to have a good rapport with a network of other GMs around the league.

Cons:

- MJ typically loves to unload second round picks.

- Will Mitch standup to MJ and his family in the draft war room?

- Will Mitch be allowed to bring in his own coach with a modern day offense?

*I can't remember if they traded or bought back in the second round or just flat drafted Clarkson with the Lakers' pick in the second round?


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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#25 » by Soul Rebel » Mon Apr 2, 2018 9:00 pm

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I was hoping for Rosas, but expected this. It's not the end of the world, but speaks more to our organization and the cronyism that continues with MJ.

I have high hopes for Kupchak much like I did for Cho.....so yeah.... whatever.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#26 » by SWedd523 » Mon Apr 2, 2018 10:00 pm

Soul Rebel wrote:I was hoping for Rosas, but expected this. It's not the end of the world, but speaks more to our organization and the cronyism that continues with MJ.

I have high hopes for Kupchak much like I did for Cho.....so yeah.... whatever.

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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#27 » by Vae Victus » Mon Apr 2, 2018 10:03 pm

TheKingofSting wrote:Pros:

- Always drafted BPA in the first round or traded pick for an immediate impact player.

- Has found talent all over the second round trading up, back or buying back into the draft. (Clarkson, Zubac come to mind in his most recent drafts)*

- Seems to have a good rapport with a network of other GMs around the league.

Cons:

- MJ typically loves to unload second round picks.

- Will Mitch standup to MJ and his family in the draft war room?

- Will Mitch be allowed to bring in his own coach with a modern day offense?

*I can't remember if they traded or bought back in the second round or just flat drafted Clarkson with the Lakers' pick in the second round?


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As a Laker fan, lemme help clarify a few things on your pro/cons list.

Pro- Kupchak responsible for our recent late pick draft success (Clarkson, Nance, Kuzma, Zubac, etc) is mostly false. The current story is that most of the late picks scouting were farmed out to Jerry's West son, Ryan West, and one of the younger Buss's kids. Our major hit of an early pick in the past that really made an impact was Andrew Bynum at #10, apparently that was a purely Jim Buss (previous Prez of Operations before Jeannie Buss's hostile takeover) pick, Kupchak wanted someone else, but Jim was adamant in picking Bynum thinking he'll be hte next big thing (one of the few things Jim was ever right about), that was only derailed due to Bynum's 2 major knee injuries. Regardless the Lakers got GREAT value out of Bynum winning a coupla chips and trading broken down Bynum (who basically never played good ball afterwards) for expiring Dwight Howard, whom we subsequently let goto waste by not trading him when it was obvious the team was going nowhere.

Clarkson's draft pick/rights were purchased with straight cash.

I wouldnt say that Mitch has been a good drafter. Apparently after Jerry West left and before Ryan West, Buss the Elder/Younger sons got involved, we've been picking straight garbage for YEARS. Sadly i think that might be more indicative of Kupchak's drafting skills.

Pro- Kupchak is good at trades. Overall this is true. Hasnt really lost a trade and had that epic home run of a deal lined up for CP3 AND lowering salary commitments via trading Gasol/Odom (just before they fell off the wagon, an Ainge fleecing Billy King type of deal tbh) while not trading Bynum. Sadly thta deal was "Basketball Reasoned" up the ass by Sterling. Us getting Pau Gasol in the 1st place was a 100% Jerry West doing his old club a big favor, fortunately for MEM Jerry West knew what to get in return (Marc Gasol picked in the 2nd round) that made that deal so even in the end. We 110% tried to dump Sun Yue (our other 2nd pick we made at the time) on MEM instead but they were having none of that. Only the Steve Nash deal was the biggest blemish Kupchak had. I was totally against it at the time, but understood that it was a hail mary hoping an old man "Super Team" of Kobe, DHo, Pau, and Nash would carry us to the promise land. That sure as **** went splat HARD. Thankfully for the Lakers the final 1st round pick from the Nash deal we had to convey to PHO/PHI, got delayed due to our magnificent tanking and will likely be a #10-11 pick at this draft. Yea we trade 2 or was it 3 1st rounders for Nash... LOL.

Con- Standing up to ownership in the face of pure and utter stupidity. He absolutely failed in this in the most horrendous manner possible.

See. Mozgov, T and Deng, L signings

Dunno who was the brainchild of those 2 idiotic signings, but if Kupchak was worth a damn as a GM he'd have threatened to resign on the spot if ShortBuss Jimbo was gonna force those deals through. Those 2 deals were just straight up unconciousable and the Lakers had to pay D'Angelo Russell to wipe off one mistake and who knows what the cost will be on the other. After just 1 year both of these players are just unplayable. The most epic twosome signing of pure failure in the history of the game for the MOST useless players possible.

I have a similar quibble over Kobe Bryant's last extension (many other Laker fans disagree as they said we OWED Kobe his last extension and he deserved it for past services rendered). I dunno who was the main force pushing for his extension (reports say it was Jeannie), but we extended a broken down crippled Kobe coming off of MAJOR achilles tendon rupture injury, to a max 2 year extension before we even had a clue how'd he look after coming back (he looked like pure 100% **** when he came back for 6 games). Kobe was already under contract as an expiring the following season (however him and his agent Pelinka were whining for an extension cuz they likely knew Kobe was washed), THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO EVER **** EXTEND HIM!!! Again if Cupcake was more than a water boy for the Buss's id have to imagine a strong seasoned GM, woulda told the kids to sit down, stfu and WAIT KOBE OUT. But nope, we gave Kobe a 2 year 70 mil extension as a retirement gift, something that we're used to as we gave Nash a 3 year 30 mil retirement deal and he only played like 20 games for us. Imagine instead of wasting 35 mil on Kobe, and we intended to tank, we whored out our cap space like Hinkie did.

Times like that where i wish we had an ice in his veins hustler like Danny Ainge as our GM (BOS-BRK trade of over the hill superstars for the greatest pick haul ever *finger kiss*) instead of a sentimental Cupcake. Either Cupcake was too weak to stand up to ShortBuss Jimbo and Backstabber Jeannie from making (Please Use More Appropriate Word) deals, OR he was responsible for the idiotic moves in the 1st place. Neither situation bodes well.

Oh yea, also him and ShortBuss, signed off on signing Byron Scott. Best tank hire EVER... if they that was what they were going for.

Yunno, if youre looking for a pure tear down and rebuild. Kupchak can def be your guy. He's not above hamstringing his coaches and forcing/letting them play the worst lineups or calling the worst plays possible to secure dat pick. Lakers literally had to tank like their lives depended on it to keep their pick. Protection was like 7/5/3/3 until no more protection this year. We drafted Randle #7, DLo #2, Ingram #2, and Lonzo #2 in that span of time. MASTERFUL tanking i tells ya.

If you guys hire Byron Scott. Well, i guess we know what direction yall are going :D
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#28 » by JDR720 » Mon Apr 2, 2018 10:17 pm

If he sucks, Im gonna call him Mitch the Beach (Substitute beach for something else....)
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#29 » by Braggins » Mon Apr 2, 2018 10:50 pm

Ugh... This franchise never fails to disappoint...

We should hire Phil Jackson as head coach to teach the guys how to run the triangle.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#30 » by yosemiteben » Mon Apr 2, 2018 11:26 pm

Worth a listen:
Read on Twitter


I don't think there's really any reason to hate on the pick at this point.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#31 » by MasterIchiro » Mon Apr 2, 2018 11:32 pm

This is one case where some of you, possibly many, need to borrow Ben's rose-colored glasses.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#32 » by catch20two » Tue Apr 3, 2018 12:12 am

I don’t think Kupchak has that bad of a reputation that precedes him to be prematurely shamed like this lol.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#33 » by catch20two » Tue Apr 3, 2018 12:18 am

yosemiteben wrote:Worth a listen:
Read on Twitter


I don't think there's really any reason to hate on the pick at this point.

Direct link to podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mitch-kupchak/id1065985281?i=1000392669511&mt=2
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#34 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Tue Apr 3, 2018 12:53 am

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article207682609.html

Kupchak will be on the phone constantly in this role, and there is much digging-out to do. There is an expression on Wall Street called “unwinding the trade.” It essentially means getting out from under a heavy investment that hasn’t worked out. That’s pretty much the Hornets’ player-payroll.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#35 » by DusterBuster » Tue Apr 3, 2018 2:19 am

As an outsider, I think this is a really strong hire by the Hornets. He's going to be worlds better than Cho was. I hope MJ gives him some autonomy to go out and reshape that stale roster in Charlotte. The Hornets really need a top-down rebuild and should cash out on both Kemba and Dwight around the draft.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#36 » by 316Hornets » Tue Apr 3, 2018 2:26 am

DusterBuster wrote:As an outsider, I think this is a really strong hire by the Hornets. He's going to be worlds better than Cho was. I hope MJ gives him some autonomy to go out and reshape that stale roster in Charlotte. The Hornets really need a top-down rebuild and should cash out on both Kemba and Dwight around the draft.


I agree, I just don't think Mitch is going to cash out. He's shown a history of digging in and Kemba is a guy you can dig in on. The big question is what to do with Batum? And, are MKG or Marvin worth anything on the open market? I could easily see Mitch trading this years pick along with one of our bloated contracts for someone who more resembles a player that meshes with Kemba, especially if Monk continues his improvement.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#37 » by DusterBuster » Tue Apr 3, 2018 2:38 am

316Hornets wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:As an outsider, I think this is a really strong hire by the Hornets. He's going to be worlds better than Cho was. I hope MJ gives him some autonomy to go out and reshape that stale roster in Charlotte. The Hornets really need a top-down rebuild and should cash out on both Kemba and Dwight around the draft.


I agree, I just don't think Mitch is going to cash out. He's shown a history of digging in and Kemba is a guy you can dig in on. The big question is what to do with Batum? And, are MKG or Marvin worth anything on the open market? I could easily see Mitch trading this years pick along with one of our bloated contracts for someone who more resembles a player that meshes with Kemba, especially if Monk continues his improvement.


I just don't see any upside in "digging in" on Kemba (I'm assuming here you mean build around by "digging in"). He's not getting any younger and he's going to be coming up for a new contract soon. Even if they back the truck up with money, he's going to seriously consider going somewhere else because - as he himself has said - he's tired of losing. When players say that kind of stuff this close to their FA period, it doesn't bode well and a new GM coming in rarely ever can change the players mind. While Kemba is still playing at a high level and on such a good contract, the Hornets would be wise to get what they can with his value at it's peak. I mean, look at it this way, say you "dig in" on Kemba and keep him. Once his contract is up, one of two things are gonna happen: 1) he's gonna leave to another team and the Hornets get nothing or, 2) the Hornets keep him but likely have to overpay him quite a bit to have him overlook the long history of losing and the temptation of greener pastures. Neither is an option you should want as a fan.

As for Batum, every player is tradable, but I would suspect you have to be ready to take on a sizable amount of salary in return and/or giving up a pick. He's gonna be the hardest to trade and the return probably won't be great, but it can be done imo. Maybe the Knicks?

I hope for your guys sake, Mitch really doesn't spend his first year as GM trying to build around Kemba when he only has 1 year left on his contract. That would be a really terrible mistake imo.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#38 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Apr 3, 2018 3:38 am

What the hell is the point of trading Kemba if all you're left with is all these role players that you can't move? You can't rebuild around all these long term unmovable contracts.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#39 » by springcadre » Tue Apr 3, 2018 3:41 am

MasterIchiro wrote:What the hell is the point of trading Kemba if all you're left with is all these role players that you can't move? You can't rebuild around all these long term unmovable contracts.

Tanking teams don’t need cap space anyway, Hornets without Kemba are Memphis-tier bad. Might as well stock up on picks/young prospects and wait out Cho’s mistakes.
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Re: Hornets officially offer GM position to Mitch Kupchak 

Post#40 » by yosemiteben » Tue Apr 3, 2018 4:28 am

That's not a real option for this team though.

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