Enes Kanter's (Lack Of) Impact Article

NBA Fan 1234 · Post #1 » by **NBA Fan 1234** » Mon Apr 2, 2018 11:27 pm

I've been working on this the last few days as a way to bring back some real conversation to the boards (something that it's gone away from recently).

It's looking at Kanter's actual impact - why his defense is bad (videos, synergy), metrics, breaking down of video, and why his impact is nowhere near as large as it might seem going by his box score stats. I don't plan on getting into real back and forths about it with anyone, just thought it would be a nice way to start a conversation. Sure, Kanter puts up points in the paint and rebounds, but the impact isn't there. In terms of helping a team win, an overwhelming amount of metrics point to him being a net negative.

Anyways, here's the link. Hope y'all enjoy.

https://thefrontofficeeye.com/2018/04/02/enes-kanters-actual-impact/

thebuzzardman · Post #2 » by **thebuzzardman** » Mon Apr 2, 2018 11:28 pm

The THJr of Centers.

Ok, i'll stop. I just had to get that one last Timmy dig in.

ChaosHamster · Post #3 » by **ChaosHamster** » Mon Apr 2, 2018 11:39 pm

"But Kanter has a positive DBPM (+0.1), first time his DBPM has been positive in his career! He improved!"

I remember one poster tried to tell me that.

Kanter is still garbage..

br7knicks · Post #4 » by **br7knicks** » Mon Apr 2, 2018 11:43 pm

i don't get how he wasn't moved. he seems like he should've been at the top of the knicks' to-do list

whocares1 · Post #5 » by **whocares1** » Mon Apr 2, 2018 11:45 pm

Kanter can be a player on a winning team. He can have a Tristain Thompson type impact on a winning team. He needs to play with an elite defensive frontcourt partner that can space the floor on offense.

whocares1 · Post #6 » by **whocares1** » Mon Apr 2, 2018 11:46 pm

br7knicks wrote:i don't get how he wasn't moved. he seems like he should've been at the top of the knicks' to-do list

He should’ve never been acquired to begin with. Huge mistake that cost us Willy.

NY 567 · Post #7 » by **NY 567** » Mon Apr 2, 2018 11:47 pm

Kanter is fine, but ideally he should be coming off the bench for 20-25 minutes where he could be an effective top option off the bench and not get torched as badly going against backup centers on defense. He's not bad he's just miscast. KP is a Center anyway, so if Kanter is here going forward he's fine as a backup center.

ChaosHamster · Post #8 » by **ChaosHamster** » Mon Apr 2, 2018 11:49 pm

whocares1 wrote:Kanter can be a player on a winning team. He can have a Tristain Thompson type impact on a winning team. He needs to play with an elite defensive frontcourt partner that can space the floor on offense.

Yeah, he needs to be partnered with someone who is an elite rim protector, so he can cover for Kanter lack of any.

But I dunno, that can lead to a lot of open threes, because that guy will be focused on the paint too much.

Post #9 » by **Thugger HBC** » Mon Apr 2, 2018 11:57 pm

ChaosHamster wrote:
whocares1 wrote:Kanter can be a player on a winning team. He can have a Tristain Thompson type impact on a winning team. He needs to play with an elite defensive frontcourt partner that can space the floor on offense.

Yeah, he needs to be partnered with someone who is an elite rim protector, so he can cover for Kanter lack of any.

But I dunno, that can lead to a lot of open threes, because that guy will be focused on the paint too much.

Kanter seemed to have good chemistry with KP from what I've watched this season. KP is capable of protecting the rim, Kanter gets the boards and help with scoring.

I'm in no way endorsing Kanter, but on a team devoid of actual talent, I have no issues with him at this point of where the team is.

Jalen Bluntson · Post #10 » by **Jalen Bluntson** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 1:29 am

Don't re sign him. He's a backup 5...not a starter.

Clyde_Style · Post #11 » by **Clyde_Style** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 1:44 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
ChaosHamster wrote:
whocares1 wrote:Kanter can be a player on a winning team. He can have a Tristain Thompson type impact on a winning team. He needs to play with an elite defensive frontcourt partner that can space the floor on offense.

Yeah, he needs to be partnered with someone who is an elite rim protector, so he can cover for Kanter lack of any.

But I dunno, that can lead to a lot of open threes, because that guy will be focused on the paint too much.

Kanter seemed to have good chemistry with KP from what I've watched this season. KP is capable of protecting the rim, Kanter gets the boards and help with scoring.

I'm in no way endorsing Kanter, but on a team devoid of actual talent, I have no issues with him at this point of where the team is.

Kanter benefitted KP in some ways similar to Rolo, but Robin was a better defender.

If you put KP and Kanter on the floor with Burke and Frank as a starting lineup with a two-way SF that got after it on defense, you probably have a decent mix that would cover for Kanter's defensive flaws while having a decent inside/out offense.

Kanter's big problem is he doesn't switch well on defense and gets lost. He's a ball hawk who has a poor kinesthetic awareness of how play sets unfold so he does what comes naturally to him which is score down low and suck up rebounds.

I'd say his defensive flaws can be masked, but what bothers me even more right now is he does not pass out of the post often enough. He is actually a behemoth in the post who often attracts 2-3 converging defenders and it really does open up the floor around him, but he usually doesn't look to pass at that point. He's done it well, but not that often. He is actually pretty damn good at scoring inside 8 feet, but that also spoiled his game and make him less dimensional.

Kanter really could be quite a two-way force if he made a few adjustments, but I don't think he has a great ball IQ and he may never expand his court awareness. I don't know if he could learn defensive rotations better with a summer of game film study and a tutor, but he should invest in that for himself.

KnicksGadfly · Post #12 » by **KnicksGadfly** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 1:53 am

It's why it annoys me when I hear 15 mill a year as a "reasonable price" for him. Any team in the playoffs, playing against us in a 7 game series in the future, is going to attack him over and over again, until the coach says "Can't play Kanter"

E-Balla · Post #13 » by **E-Balla** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 2:06 am

This thread gonna be quiet. When I said it 20 games in they didn't want to hear it. Def don't want to hear it now.

Post #14 » by **Manhattan Project** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 2:23 am

At the end of the day, Kanter is an ideal big man to come off the bench. However his fit next to KP, you could see why the Knicks would think it's an ideal fit. He gets rebounds, one of the best in the game. KP doesn't attack the boards, so it would allow Kanter to grab em all. KP would be able to play the help defender role to help masquerade some of his deficiencies.

However as you pointed out, you could isolate him and take advantage of him repeatedly on the defensive end. The ball tends to stick to his hands once it touches them. You could look at someone like David Lee when he became a starter with us, he at least stretched the floor and was a slick passer. Kanter doesn't stretch the floor, he's not a great ball mover but he does set some good screens though we don't utilize it nearly enough. Kanter is a legit player, he's just not the player we need on this team going forward. I really hope he opts out of his contract and we're not stupid enough to bring him back for the contract he's seeking. It truly is amazing that he could leave, we gave away Hernangomez for nothing and Noah could potentially be stretched waived. Add that all up and it scares me the type of contract we could potentially give O'Quinn.

The one thing I hope we as fans all take away from Kanter's time, is that box score stats and numbers don't tell the entire story of a player. Sometimes you need a guy who can actually contribute on both sides of the ball.

aq_ua · Post #15 » by **aq_ua** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 2:23 am

Clearly a ton of effort has gone into the article, nice job. One minor editing suggestion would be to make dates words rather than numbers, as the article is quite numerically intensive to begin with.

As it relates to Kanter, nothing surprising I suppose. It's hard for centers to be plus contributors these days, unless they can cover the perimeter well. I think there was an article that concluded even Andre Drummond as having a negative impact overall.

Adelheid · Post #16 » by **Adelheid** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 2:53 am

KP is that PF that really mixes well with Enes. He fills the void that Kanter lacks and Kanter does the things that KP would not do. Still backup lvl C though...too old school for today's nba. Anyone who wants to drive to the basket coudnt do it without being swarmed because Kanter and his defender clogs the paint.

god shammgod · Post #17 » by **god shammgod** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 2:57 am

thebuzzardman wrote:The THJr of Centers.

Ok, i'll stop. I just had to get that one last Timmy dig in.

i'll allow it

god shammgod · Post #18 » by **god shammgod** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 2:57 am

the most shocking part of this thread to me was that paco changed his name again

god shammgod · Post #19 » by **god shammgod** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 3:00 am

br7knicks wrote:i don't get how he wasn't moved. he seems like he should've been at the top of the knicks' to-do list

strangely enough, 20 million dollar centers who can't defend or shoot from beyond 10 feet don't have a robust market

Clyde_Style · Post #20 » by **Clyde_Style** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 3:14 am

god shammgod wrote:the most shocking part of this thread to me was that paco changed his name again

I think it is time to drop all the pretenses and just call yourself God