Surgery for Tulowitzki

[JaysRule15]

I only care if he is ready to pass the torch of starting SS to Bo Bichette next year.

Who cares if he’s ready to pass the torch. He can be a glorified bat boy and like it for all the money he’s eating up. He won’t even make it past April next year anyways before he breaks something else.

you missed my point, I rather having him sitting on the DL and eat all those money instead of starting at SS next year. I don't want him and Donaldson blocking the way for Bo and Vlady, especially that they are very likely to blaze through the upper minor this year.

Not to mention Tulo has said multiple times that there's no way he's switching positions or playing anything other than SS. So if he's healthy, it's going to get messy. I'm guessing we eat the contract and move him for scrap. Just like how we got Melvin Upton last year from Padres.

[Schad]

He isn't going to be a shortstop much longer no matter what he thinks, and his bat doesn't play at 1B/3B/DH. We might be able to move one-third of his remaining deal after this season (so, retaining $25m or thereabouts), but I'd be shocked if anyone took on any more money than that for a broken-down 34 year old shortstop.

[Yosemite Dan]

I’d be surprised if we see Tulo in a Jays uniform ever again. He’s not coming back this year that’s for sure because if it takes a normal player 2 months to recover from this surgery then add 4 more months for Mr China Doll. And Jays management will move heaven and earth to unload him in the off-season no matter how much it’s gonna sting financially.

It’s ironic how we passed on Tulo and picked Romero and both players end up disintegrating, one mentally and the other physically, while wearing a Jays uniform.

[phillipmike]

Wonder if the Jays trade him for an equally bad contract like a Tomas or a Braun. Zimmerman?

[Schad]

Wonder if the Jays trade him for an equally bad contract like a Tomas or a Braun. Zimmerman?

The money owed Braun is almost exactly equivalent, but among other things, I cannot imagine Braun waiving his 10/5 rights to come here, nor Milwaukee having any interest in moving a career Brewer for a guy that mostly spends time on the DL.

I raised Tomas in the offseason, and that seems like the only sort of route that we could reasonably expect. It's basically like eating Tulo's salary, because Tomas is really bad and should probably just continue rotting in the minors, but if done in midseason it'd save us about $9m, which is something. And it's theoretically possible if increasingly improbable that Tomas might learn how to baseball over the next couple seasons.

[JaysRule15]

I’d be surprised if we see Tulo in a Jays uniform ever again. He’s not coming back this year that’s for sure because if it takes a normal player 2 months to recover from this surgery then add 4 more months for Mr China Doll. And Jays management will move heaven and earth to unload him in the off-season no matter how much it’s gonna sting financially.

It’s ironic how we passed on Tulo and picked Romero and both players end up disintegrating, one mentally and the other physically, while wearing a Jays uniform.

To be fair, Romero's problems weren't all mental. His knees were messed up and that was affecting his delivery (which was bad enough to begin with).

[Schad]

Yeah, which is why I find it a bit dumb to bash players for breaking down. They don't want to. It's just a thing that happens because injuries have a tendency to snowball, and these guys are engaging in high-impact activities, so any small injury today can easily cause chronic problems down the road, particularly when you try to play through it.

No amount of gritty hardnosed gamerism is going to offset the fact that Tulowitzki's hip is permanently jacked up and causing other lower body issues (and will probably leave him with serious joint problems in his early 40s), or that Romero could neither push off nor land properly because he was in constant pain and lost a bunch of leg strength.

[manjusaka]

Yeah, which is why I find it a bit dumb to bash players for breaking down. They don't want to. It's just a thing that happens because injuries have a tendency to snowball, and these guys are engaging in high-impact activities, so any small injury today can easily cause chronic problems down the road, particularly when you try to play through it.

No amount of gritty hardnosed gamerism is going to offset the fact that Tulowitzki's hip is permanently jacked up and causing other lower body issues (and will probably leave him with serious joint problems in his early 40s), or that Romero could neither push off nor land properly because he was in constant pain and lost a bunch of leg strength.

That is the sad part of the professional sports athletes. Having a tough mind to go through all the necessary training is what bring them the success. During the younger age, the body may just recover from the minor stuff quickly. Once getting older, the body doesn't have the same ability to recover anymore. Their mind still telling the body to bear the pain. When the mileage piling up, the body will eventually breakdown.

middle infielders do take a troll on the body while fielding. Right now I think Tulo is in the similar situation like Chase Utley (chronic knee problem) few years ago. He played some 1B in the later career. Tulo needs to consider playing other position for his health.

[phillipmike]

Wonder if the Jays trade him for an equally bad contract like a Tomas or a Braun. Zimmerman?

The money owed Braun is almost exactly equivalent, but among other things, I cannot imagine Braun waiving his 10/5 rights to come here, nor Milwaukee having any interest in moving a career Brewer for a guy that mostly spends time on the DL.

I raised Tomas in the offseason, and that seems like the only sort of route that we could reasonably expect. It's basically like eating Tulo's salary, because Tomas is really bad and should probably just continue rotting in the minors, but if done in midseason it'd save us about $9m, which is something. And it's theoretically possible if increasingly improbable that Tomas might learn how to baseball over the next couple seasons.

Its more wishful thinking than anything else for me because the odds to trade Tulo in his current state is slim to none.

Tulo isnt a bad player and he fits a big need but only if he is healthy. If he is healthy then you have no problem playing an above average SS with an average bat for the next 2 years after this season so it comes down to healthy and that is the big question - in fact with the depth in Diaz and others you would be extremely happy with 100+ games.

So in the end it comes down to what the Jays want to do. Keep Tulo in hopes he is healthy or make a baseball trade to find a change of scenery... or in the Tomas case get a much worse player but save money.

If Tulo is somewhat healthy and proves he can play when he returns then Milwaukee might have interest to clear their Thames, Santana and Braun log jam. But i doubt they want to block Arcia.

DBacks are also near the bottom in quality SS so to get rid of Tomas a Tulo/Tomas swap might make sense as at least Tulo would be on their 25 man roster.

Outside of that no one else really fits in terms of "need" and/or having a bad contract so the Jays are likely stuck with him.

[The_Hater]

Who cares if he’s ready to pass the torch. He can be a glorified bat boy and like it for all the money he’s eating up. He won’t even make it past April next year anyways before he breaks something else.

you missed my point, I rather having him sitting on the DL and eat all those money instead of starting at SS next year. I don't want him and Donaldson blocking the way for Bo and Vlady, especially that they are very likely to blaze through the upper minor this year.

Not to mention Tulo has said multiple times that there's no way he's switching positions or playing anything other than SS. So if he's healthy, it's going to get messy. I'm guessing we eat the contract and move him for scrap. Just like how we got Melvin Upton last year from Padres.

Players generally change their minds on that ‘I’m not switching postions’ stance once it’s the only option available. Of course he’s got to be on the field and swinging a productive bat for any of that to happen. Those are 2 huge ”ifs” at this point.

[The_Hater]

Wonder if the Jays trade him for an equally bad contract like a Tomas or a Braun. Zimmerman?

The money owed Braun is almost exactly equivalent, but among other things, I cannot imagine Braun waiving his 10/5 rights to come here, nor Milwaukee having any interest in moving a career Brewer for a guy that mostly spends time on the DL.

I raised Tomas in the offseason, and that seems like the only sort of route that we could reasonably expect. It's basically like eating Tulo's salary, because Tomas is really bad and should probably just continue rotting in the minors, but if done in midseason it'd save us about $9m, which is something. And it's theoretically possible if increasingly improbable that Tomas might learn how to baseball over the next couple seasons.

Its more wishful thinking than anything else for me because the odds to trade Tulo in his current state is slim to none.

.

For the most part you’re right, he’s obviously not going to be moved for value, but he could be moved in a deal where the Jays are taking more years and more money back and/or eating a portion of his salary.

But this is just a other example of how baseball teams never learn. Tulo signed a 10 year contact back in 2012, has there ever been a 10 year contract handed out in MLB history that didn’t turn into an absolutely crippling contract well before it finished? At least the Rockies were smart enough to both back load the deal and move it while it still had value.

[phillipmike]

For the most part you’re right, he’s obviously not going to be moved for value, but he could be moved in a deal where the Jays are taking more years and more money back and/or eating a portion of his salary.

But this is just a other example of how baseball teams never learn. Tulo signed a 10 year contact back in 2012, has there ever been a 10 year contract handed out in MLB history that didn’t turn into an absolutely crippling contract well before it finished? At least the Rockies were smart enough to both back load the deal and move it while it still had value.

Yup, the trade in itself was fine (even though i didnt agree with it at the time - i loved Reyes), Tulo served his purpose to help get us into the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 (maybe we get in without him). Had Tulo's deal had 1, 2 or even 3 years remaining on the deal it would have been a fair trade. But since it had 5 years remaining to go with his injuries last season and this, the deal overall was a huge win for the Rockies as they saved money though they did find ways to waste that money)and get cheaper talent (i still believe Hoffman can be a solid 3 starter) meaning years 1 and 2 was a win for the Jays and the rest look to be absolutely terrible.

[The_Hater]

For the most part you’re right, he’s obviously not going to be moved for value, but he could be moved in a deal where the Jays are taking more years and more money back and/or eating a portion of his salary.

But this is just a other example of how baseball teams never learn. Tulo signed a 10 year contact back in 2012, has there ever been a 10 year contract handed out in MLB history that didn’t turn into an absolutely crippling contract well before it finished? At least the Rockies were smart enough to both back load the deal and move it while it still had value.

Yup, the trade in itself was fine (even though i didnt agree with it at the time - i loved Reyes), Tulo served his purpose to help get us into the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 (maybe we get in without him). Had Tulo's deal had 1, 2 or even 3 years remaining on the deal it would have been a fair trade. But since it had 5 years remaining to go with his injuries last season and this, the deal overall was a huge win for the Rockies as they saved money though they did find ways to waste that money)and get cheaper talent (i still believe Hoffman can be a solid 3 starter) meaning years 1 and 2 was a win for the Jays and the rest look to be absolutely terrible.

I’m not sure even sure if Tulo served his purpose. He didn’t play at a particularly high level either season (OPS+ 89 and 102, + above average defense) which makes me think the team could have found similar production at a fraction of the salary/trade cost. His postseason bat wasn’t great either. And 2 young pitching prospects aside, the Reyes contract would have finished this past winter. Considering how much Goins played the past 2.5 seasons, even a Goins/Barney -SS, Reyes -2B arrangement could have survived defensively.

I remember some posters here arguing that this deal was far worse than the David Price trade, even while many Jays fans were crowing about AA’s deal making skills. I didn’t want to believe it for about 12 months but apparently they were bang on.

[phillipmike]

I didnt and dont like the trade but i see its purpose and value for those 2 years. The Jays very likely make the playoffs in 2015 without him - i dont know if that is the case in 2016. Hard to know one way or another.