The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

Post #2721 » by **lebron stopper** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 4:27 pm

Theocy wrote:can anyone remember a more talented rookie class in recent years? How back do you need to go in order to look at rookies and say yeah these guys had comparable potential.

And to suggest next year will be as strong.

Also final question: I kind of like anunoby but come on who on earth votes for him over Ben Simmons, Mitchell, Tatum and Markannen Show yerself little homers

I'm not even sure if OG Anunoby will make an All-Rookie team now, but he was already very good for the Raptors out of the gate until he got totally gassed out. And his athleticism seems to be returning as well. I'm excited to see him take the leap next year.

NPZ · Post #2722 » by **NPZ** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 5:07 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
NPZ wrote:
commentatorer wrote:rookie Magic Johnson: 18.0 points, 7.7 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 53% field shooting, 77 games
rookie Ben Simmons: 15.8 points, 8.0 rebounds, 8.2 assists, 54% field shooting, 75 games

Mag was sharing minutes with Norm Nixon (a starting caliber point). Not saying Ben sucks by any stretch, but that's a legit caveat. The apg was hindered.

There will always be caveats to every comparison. The fact that its not ridiculous to bring them up as a comparison speaks louder to me than the actual minutae of the comparison itself— were talking about a top 5 player ever.

There will always be caveats and when they're big ones, they need to be pointed out.

HurricaneKid · Post #2723 » by **HurricaneKid** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 5:21 pm

CoreyGallagher wrote:Ben Simmons leads the team in +/- during this winning streak. The 76ers are outscoring the opponent by an average of 17.6 points per game with him in, or +27.6 points per 100 possessions (-4.9 w/o him).

The streak consists of 10 wins against lotto teams and one win against the TWolves at home when the TWolves were on a B2B without their best player.

Lets not get carried away with this.

FTR, I think he is the landslide winner of the RoY. I just don't think a run against tanking teams is what got him there.

Post #2724 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 5:39 pm

HurricaneKid wrote:
CoreyGallagher wrote:Ben Simmons leads the team in +/- during this winning streak. The 76ers are outscoring the opponent by an average of 17.6 points per game with him in, or +27.6 points per 100 possessions (-4.9 w/o him).

The streak consists of 10 wins against lotto teams and one win against the TWolves at home when the TWolves were on a B2B without their best player.

Lets not get carried away with this.

FTR, I think he is the landslide winner of the RoY. I just don't think a run against tanking teams is what got him there.

I don’t think that either, I’m simply stating the facts of the matter, team is still being outscored without him.

Before this stretch, nobody prefaced discussing his production with the fact that we had noticeably the toughest strength of schedule until then, that he was playing tough opponents so often. Suddenly it’s worth prefacing it with the schedule finally lightening up.
If these games were spread throughout the season, all of his statistics and metrics would have been even greater for a majority of it, some of the narratives that were able to grow may not have.

HurricaneKid · Post #2725 » by **HurricaneKid** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 5:50 pm

CoreyGallagher wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote:
CoreyGallagher wrote:Ben Simmons leads the team in +/- during this winning streak. The 76ers are outscoring the opponent by an average of 17.6 points per game with him in, or +27.6 points per 100 possessions (-4.9 w/o him).

The streak consists of 10 wins against lotto teams and one win against the TWolves at home when the TWolves were on a B2B without their best player.

Lets not get carried away with this.

FTR, I think he is the landslide winner of the RoY. I just don't think a run against tanking teams is what got him there.

Simply stating the facts of the matter, team is still being outscored without him.

Before this stretch, nobody prefaced discussing his production with the fact that we had noticeably the toughest strength of schedule, that he was playing tough opponents so often. Suddenly it’s worth prefacing it now that our schedule is finally lighter, okay.

I'm not denigrating Simmons. I think he is great. I just think there are better ways to show his greatness than a good on/off (a stat plagued with small data set problems) run through the league's worst teams.

Post #2726 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 8:20 pm

HurricaneKid wrote:I'm not denigrating Simmons. I think he is great. I just think there are better ways to show his greatness than a good on/off (a stat plagued with small data set problems) run through the league's worst teams.

My point was that nobody was getting carried away with it, was simply an interesting fact post, it wasn't in response to anything. For a rookie leading the team, that considerable of a net differential through an 11 game stretch is impressive, regardless of the competition.

itsallaboutme · Post #2727 » by **itsallaboutme** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 2:09 am

Has Donovan had the best rookie season to not win ROTY??

Unbreakable99 · Post #2728 » by **Unbreakable99** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 2:40 am

itsallaboutme wrote:Has Donovan had the best rookie season to not win ROTY??

No. Magic Johnson did.

Stonk · Post #2729 » by **Stonk** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 4:00 am

And Melo

Cappy_Smurf · Post #2730 » by **Cappy_Smurf** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 5:47 am

In NBA history, only 5 players have ever led 45 win teams in scoring as a rookie:

Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
David Robinson
Donovan Mitchell

thamadkant · Post #2731 » by **thamadkant** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 7:52 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Jackson feels like the next Rudy Gay to me. Very talented and incredibly athletic, but reverts too often to bad habbits and inefficient volume scoring.

Still, not a bust and will have a 10+ year career.

Moving this here since I locked the other one.

Maayyyybe offensively but his defensive potential and ability as a facilitator go well beyond what Gay had. He's got a chance to be a very solid two way player. I also wouldn't pigeonhole his tendencies yet. They need to get him a real coach.

Rudy Gay was 6’9 with a 7’3 wingspan and elite athleticism — he had all the defensive tools in the world but couldnt put it together. Thus far, Jackson has not been a good defender either, despite his tools.

The biggest issue is coaching— for his sake, I hope Phoenix gets the right guy this offseason.

Jackson has been inconsistent on the defensive end, but thats more like to Suns having an absolute crap defense behind him...

When motivated and a smart defender like Chandler is on the court... Josh Jackson has shown elite defensive plays. He's got the ability and tools, but lack the team structure behind him to really help enforce his defense.... he usually gets beat when he gets screened out and then his team mate(s) do a bad job rotating or moving and he ends up getting "screwed"

zike_42 · Post #2732 » by **zike_42** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 8:00 am

peZt · Post #2733 » by **peZt** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 8:54 am

zike_42 wrote:With only 6-7-8 games to go, what are people's All-Rookie teams?

First | Second (in no order)
Mitchell | Smith Jr
Kuzma | Jackson
Simmons | Collins
Markkanen | Ball
Tatum | Bogdanovic/Anunoby/Fox?

Simmons
Mitchell
Tatum
Kuzma
Markkanen

Ball
Smith Jr
Bogdanovic
Jackson
Collins

So pretty much the same as yours

Snotbubbles · Post #2734 » by **Snotbubbles** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 10:56 am

In NBA history, only 1 player has ever had 1200 pts, 600 rebounds, 600 assists and led their team to the playoffs as a rookie:

Ben Simmons

nurseryc · Post #2735 » by **nurseryc** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 11:04 am

Snotbubbles wrote:In NBA history, only 1 player has ever had 1200 pts, 600 rebounds, 600 assists and led their team to the playoffs as a rookie:

Ben Simmons

Winner

JellosJigglin · Post #2736 » by **JellosJigglin** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 2:47 pm

Kuzma has broken through that rookie wall. His last 10 or 11 games have been really good.

Had a nice 30pt/5reb game last night against the Spurs, 5-9 from 3, a couple sweeping hooks, and clutch in OT. All on a sprained ankle.

commentatorer · Post #2737 » by **commentatorer** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 4:06 pm

Detroit were on a 5 game-winning streak, were at home, and the Sixers were playing the 2nd leg of back2back, and still the Sixers won!
Simmons making Philly great again.

commentatorer · Post #2738 » by **commentatorer** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 4:11 pm

HurricaneKid wrote:
CoreyGallagher wrote:Ben Simmons leads the team in +/- during this winning streak. The 76ers are outscoring the opponent by an average of 17.6 points per game with him in, or +27.6 points per 100 possessions (-4.9 w/o him).

The streak consists of 10 wins against lotto teams and one win against the TWolves at home when the TWolves were on a B2B without their best player.

Lets not get carried away with this.

FTR, I think he is the landslide winner of the RoY. I just don't think a run against tanking teams is what got him there.

I agree the current streak is not their biggest accomplishment, although Detroit needed to win to make the playoffs so no tank there.
And Minnesota was not tanking, nor Denver.
Philly are 17-12 vs the West.
Also, Philly beat Miami without Embiid in February.

HurricaneKid · Post #2739 » by **HurricaneKid** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 5:02 pm

commentatorer wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote:
CoreyGallagher wrote:Ben Simmons leads the team in +/- during this winning streak. The 76ers are outscoring the opponent by an average of 17.6 points per game with him in, or +27.6 points per 100 possessions (-4.9 w/o him).

The streak consists of 10 wins against lotto teams and one win against the TWolves at home when the TWolves were on a B2B without their best player.

Lets not get carried away with this.

FTR, I think he is the landslide winner of the RoY. I just don't think a run against tanking teams is what got him there.

I agree the current streak is not their biggest accomplishment, although Detroit needed to win to make the playoffs so no tank there.
And Minnesota was not tanking, nor Denver.
Philly are 17-12 vs the West.
Also, Philly beat Miami without Embiid in February.

Detroit has been eliminated for ages. They didn't have to win to make the playoffs. They had to win last night, win ALL THEIR REMAINING GAMES, AND have Milwaukee lose to BKLN AND Orl AND NYK AND Philly. C'mon.

Minnesota wasn't tanking but they WERE on a B2B on the road without their best player.

commentatorer · Post #2740 » by **commentatorer** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 5:08 pm

HurricaneKid wrote:
commentatorer wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote:
The streak consists of 10 wins against lotto teams and one win against the TWolves at home when the TWolves were on a B2B without their best player.

Lets not get carried away with this.

FTR, I think he is the landslide winner of the RoY. I just don't think a run against tanking teams is what got him there.

I agree the current streak is not their biggest accomplishment, although Detroit needed to win to make the playoffs so no tank there.
And Minnesota was not tanking, nor Denver.
Philly are 17-12 vs the West.
Also, Philly beat Miami without Embiid in February.

Detroit has been eliminated for ages. They didn't have to win to make the playoffs. They had to win last night, win ALL THEIR REMAINING GAMES, AND have Milwaukee lose to BKLN AND Orl AND NYK AND Philly.

That's why I said "Detroit needed to win to make the playoffs".
Detroit were playing to win, because they knew they would be mathematically eliminated if they lost.
And if Detroit was in tanking mode, why did they win their last 5 games?
This is not "a run against tanking teams" when Denver, Minnesota and Detroit are in the streak.

Who wins? (May select 2 options.)